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Killing Hitler?

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Luxin
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Joined: August 24th, 2018, 2:48 pm

Re: Killing Hitler?

Post by Luxin » September 6th, 2018, 9:50 pm

Dear philosopher LuckyR,
LuckyR wrote:
September 2nd, 2018, 2:40 am
Luxin wrote:
September 1st, 2018, 5:12 pm
Dear philosopher mr533473 et al,

I only wish to comment on item 2). I would not, because for me there would be repercussions. "Let he who is free of sin cast the first stone" (Christ).
Do you feel this phrase applies to literal stones or figurative ones?
I've always sensed that Christ's words were figurative. His 'Judge not lest ye be judged' has the same thrust as 'Let he who is free of sin cast the first stone', i.e. perhaps giving one pause regarding our race's general tendency to judge incautiously. A 'judgment' in this context is 'an opinion, estimation, action or conclusion as from circumstances presented to the mind'. Since all the four things there are subjective, how can anyone be certain that one's judgment is correct? An incorrect judgment issued has serious and often mysterious negative karmic consequences. Wardens and other prison staff have suffered seriously after it was discovered that an innocent person was executed. This significant suffering is prevented by following the commandment 'Thou shalt not kill'.

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Dear philosopher Hereandnow,
Hereandnow wrote:
August 18th, 2018, 1:37 am
The better question is, does Hitler deserve the bad rap at all? After all, he did not ask to be a conscienceless psycho. He did not ask to feel no emotions as he slaughtered the innocent. If i were Hitler, I would have done the same (that's what it means to be Hitler). He was, as we all are, thrown into the world, thrown into a personality and its motivations. How is he at all to blame? Just as soon blame him for his sexual preference, or his aversion to goat cheese.
I admire that determinist view, thank you. Yes, no one asks to be wicked. The 'bad' were all once innocent little babies, as were the 'good'.

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LuckyR
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Re: Killing Hitler?

Post by LuckyR » September 9th, 2018, 3:58 am

Luxin wrote:
September 6th, 2018, 9:50 pm
Dear philosopher LuckyR,
LuckyR wrote:
September 2nd, 2018, 2:40 am


Do you feel this phrase applies to literal stones or figurative ones?
I've always sensed that Christ's words were figurative. His 'Judge not lest ye be judged' has the same thrust as 'Let he who is free of sin cast the first stone', i.e. perhaps giving one pause regarding our race's general tendency to judge incautiously. A 'judgment' in this context is 'an opinion, estimation, action or conclusion as from circumstances presented to the mind'. Since all the four things there are subjective, how can anyone be certain that one's judgment is correct? An incorrect judgment issued has serious and often mysterious negative karmic consequences. Wardens and other prison staff have suffered seriously after it was discovered that an innocent person was executed. This significant suffering is prevented by following the commandment 'Thou shalt not kill'.
Glad to hear it, I agree. Though no one "judges not", to be honest. But I don't see that as a shortcoming. Only a simpleton does not "judge".
"As usual... it depends."

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mr533473
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Joined: July 1st, 2018, 8:12 am

Re: Killing Hitler?

Post by mr533473 » November 18th, 2018, 12:32 pm

CIN wrote:
July 26th, 2018, 7:12 am
1) Depends. If I have children who will starve if I kill myself, it's immoral. If I'm an army instructor and a bomb lands in front of my squad and the only way to stop them being killed is for me to throw myself on it, it's obligatory. Often it's just permissible. Suicide is just an act like any other; you decide whether it's moral or immoral in the same way you would any other act.
2) Yes, I would. The bastard killed 6 million innocent Jews. Obligatory. No brainer.
3) Obligatory (see 2). Not that the bastard knew it himself.
4) Octarine.
1) This seems to be a utilitarian response. Would you describe yourself as one?
2) Is punishment and retribution obligatory? In your view, would it be my obligation to kill him?
3) I am interested in what other crimes or vices one commits or indulges in that would render their suicide obligatory. Killing "6 million innocent Jews" you say makes it an imperative but I imagine stealing a bike would not demand the offender to commit suicide. Where is the line for you?
4) How do you know?

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ktz
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Joined: November 9th, 2018, 12:21 am
Favorite Philosopher: Habermas

Re: Killing Hitler?

Post by ktz » November 24th, 2018, 11:14 am

1) Of course they may be case by case exceptions, but in the most general case I'd label suicide to be immoral because one is denying a human being the opportunity to grow, change, and further make contributions to society and the general welfare. Even though that human being is oneself, no one can see the future.
2) Having been denied from art school, Hitler actually had the talent to be an excellent draftsman and architect. I'd first seek alternate paths to avoiding the Holocaust besides murder -- perhaps post-art school rejection Hitler could be redeemed. Anti-semitism was a widespread phenomenon at the time and many small injustices and instances of discrimination against Jews were being committed in America, Britain, and other "civilized" countries at the time. I don't think a Minority Report-like assassination necessarily would lead to a more positive outcome the same way others here assume. And who's to say someone even worse than Hitler wouldn't have risen to power in Germany instead?
3) Consistent with my first answer, I find Hitler's suicide to be immoral, though I don't exactly feel that morality was a guiding light for 1945 Hitler. He had his practical considerations and he got to choose the path he took.
4) I decline to choose a favorite color as it's a vague question and I do not feel it is necessary or correct to discriminate against colors, as each may be the best at their job in their own contexts.
You may have a heart of gold, but so does a hard-boiled egg.

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