Ethical Decisions - Will I learn how to make them or just to point out flaws?
- EthicsQuestions
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Ethical Decisions - Will I learn how to make them or just to point out flaws?
I am really new to Ethics. I am not undertaking any University study in this area, I just thought that learning about ethics could be really useful - but probably not particularly interesting.
As it happens, I have found the opposite - what I am learning is interesting, but does not seem to be useful to me. I am wondering, if I keep learning about Ethics, am I eventually going to learn something that I can apply to making decisions?
At the moment I have learned a lot about Deontological and Teleological theories. While this is interesting, it has basically left me with the impression that there is not going to be a text that begins: "Here is how to make an ethical decision". There might be a "Here is how to make a decision from a teleological standpoint" - but there seems to be flaws with the teleological approach and obviously people don't agree that this is the right approach.
If people cannot agree on the best approach to ethics, than how can you really make a decision that is ethically correct?
If I am an employer and an employee has stolen money from the till, how can I use ethics to help me make a decision about whether to fire the employee? I could say that "stealing is bad" and fire the employee - but the teleologist will say that I am wrong to do that because the employee with not be able to feed their family... If I don't fire the employee the deontologist will say "your employee stole from you, the ethical thing to do is to fire them".
So, it would seem that every possible outcome has an argument in favour and an argument against - so it is unclear how this is any more helpful than flipping a coin?
My main question is this, if I am interested in making ethical decisions, is it worth my time in continuing to learn about ethics? Will I eventually learn things that have some applicability? Or am I going to only learn about how to critique others decisions?
Thanks for your help guys.
- Thomyum2
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Re: Ethical Decisions - Will I learn how to make them or just to point out flaws?
- LuckyR
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Re: Ethical Decisions - Will I learn how to make them or just to point out flaws?
You can (and should) have an understanding of the basics of ethics, but if I understand you correctly, you are seeking guidance in morality. Familiarity with ethics (including the history of ethics) should assist you in thst quest.EthicsQuestions wrote: ↑June 10th, 2019, 3:22 am Hi Guys,
I am really new to Ethics. I am not undertaking any University study in this area, I just thought that learning about ethics could be really useful - but probably not particularly interesting.
As it happens, I have found the opposite - what I am learning is interesting, but does not seem to be useful to me. I am wondering, if I keep learning about Ethics, am I eventually going to learn something that I can apply to making decisions?
At the moment I have learned a lot about Deontological and Teleological theories. While this is interesting, it has basically left me with the impression that there is not going to be a text that begins: "Here is how to make an ethical decision". There might be a "Here is how to make a decision from a teleological standpoint" - but there seems to be flaws with the teleological approach and obviously people don't agree that this is the right approach.
If people cannot agree on the best approach to ethics, than how can you really make a decision that is ethically correct?
If I am an employer and an employee has stolen money from the till, how can I use ethics to help me make a decision about whether to fire the employee? I could say that "stealing is bad" and fire the employee - but the teleologist will say that I am wrong to do that because the employee with not be able to feed their family... If I don't fire the employee the deontologist will say "your employee stole from you, the ethical thing to do is to fire them".
So, it would seem that every possible outcome has an argument in favour and an argument against - so it is unclear how this is any more helpful than flipping a coin?
My main question is this, if I am interested in making ethical decisions, is it worth my time in continuing to learn about ethics? Will I eventually learn things that have some applicability? Or am I going to only learn about how to critique others decisions?
Thanks for your help guys.
- EthicsQuestions
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Re: Ethical Decisions - Will I learn how to make them or just to point out flaws?
Thanks for your reply. I have looked this up on Youtube, this is exactly what I am looking for! I am going to look at buying the book. I am very much at the introductory stage.Thomyum2 wrote: ↑June 13th, 2019, 5:23 pm I'm currently working my way through Michael Sandel's book Justice and would recommend giving that a look if you haven't already. He's a well known professor of philosophy at Harvard (you can also watch his lecture series on YouTube that parallels the topics he introduces in the book).
Thanks, I am going to keep on learning.You can (and should) have an understanding of the basics of ethics, but if I understand you correctly, you are seeking guidance in morality. Familiarity with ethics (including the history of ethics) should assist you in thst quest.
- h_k_s
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Re: Ethical Decisions - Will I learn how to make them or just to point out flaws?
Immanuel Kant's famous fundamental ethics rule is to imagine if everyone always did what you were considering? What then would be the outcome?EthicsQuestions wrote: ↑June 10th, 2019, 3:22 am Hi Guys,
I am really new to Ethics. I am not undertaking any University study in this area, I just thought that learning about ethics could be really useful - but probably not particularly interesting.
As it happens, I have found the opposite - what I am learning is interesting, but does not seem to be useful to me. I am wondering, if I keep learning about Ethics, am I eventually going to learn something that I can apply to making decisions?
At the moment I have learned a lot about Deontological and Teleological theories. While this is interesting, it has basically left me with the impression that there is not going to be a text that begins: "Here is how to make an ethical decision". There might be a "Here is how to make a decision from a teleological standpoint" - but there seems to be flaws with the teleological approach and obviously people don't agree that this is the right approach.
If people cannot agree on the best approach to ethics, than how can you really make a decision that is ethically correct?
If I am an employer and an employee has stolen money from the till, how can I use ethics to help me make a decision about whether to fire the employee? I could say that "stealing is bad" and fire the employee - but the teleologist will say that I am wrong to do that because the employee with not be able to feed their family... If I don't fire the employee the deontologist will say "your employee stole from you, the ethical thing to do is to fire them".
So, it would seem that every possible outcome has an argument in favour and an argument against - so it is unclear how this is any more helpful than flipping a coin?
My main question is this, if I am interested in making ethical decisions, is it worth my time in continuing to learn about ethics? Will I eventually learn things that have some applicability? Or am I going to only learn about how to critique others decisions?
Thanks for your help guys.
- Newme
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Re: Ethical Decisions - Will I learn how to make them or just to point out flaws?
Besides values, scope of consequences helps determine what would likely be best in a given situation. Adjusting ideals in light of new information &/or independent thought, rather than blindly accepting others’ values - is intelligent. Legality and tradition do not necessarily mean ethical. Lastly, each situation you come across is unique - and nobody perfectly lives up to ideals, no matter what value system’s used. Yet, the more aware you are of the options and related consequences (immediately and in the bigger picture) the better, more ethical decisions you’ll make.
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Re: Ethical Decisions - Will I learn how to make them or just to point out flaws?
You can apply any approach to any problem. The question is: which method works for you? That is: How does your mind most efficiently process information and compare data for the best application in each case.EthicsQuestions wrote: ↑June 10th, 2019, 3:22 am As it happens, I have found the opposite - what I am learning is interesting, but does not seem to be useful to me. I am wondering, if I keep learning about Ethics, am I eventually going to learn something that I can apply to making decisions?
For that, you go to religion. Any canon will be happy to tell you what's correct to believe, what your values ought to be and how you should choose your path to elicit that particular god's approval.it has basically left me with the impression that there is not going to be a text that begins: "Here is how to make an ethical decision".
No philosophy can tell you what to think; all they can show you are different ways to think.
Of course people don't agree: the same approach can't work for every kind of mind, every world-view, every culture. All of your decision-making takes place in a context that is familiar to you, but completely unknown to the 18th century French, or -4the century Greek who wrote a book about the modes of thought in his own context.
It doesn't matter about the flaws: you're not following a recipe for fish soup; you're adapting another person's method to your own need.
Look to the result.If people cannot agree on the best approach to ethics, than how can you really make a decision that is ethically correct?
You presumably have a system of values - a sense of what's good and bad, what's important and trivial, what takes precedence, what should be preserved, what should not happen. If you haven't got that sorted out, nobody can help you make a decision of any kind.
If that's how you choose, you're too immature to be in charge of a potted plant, let alone other people's livelihood.If I am an employer and an employee has stolen money from the till, how can I use ethics to help me make a decision about whether to fire the employee? I could say that "stealing is bad" and fire the employee - but the teleologist will say that I am wrong to do that because the employee with not be able to feed their family... If I don't fire the employee the deontologist will say "your employee stole from you, the ethical thing to do is to fire them".
If that's the depth of your insight, flipping a coin is as viable an options as any.So, it would seem that every possible outcome has an argument in favour and an argument against - so it is unclear how this is any more helpful than flipping a coin?
That depends entirely on how well you understand what you're reading. If you can explain why you disagree with a point of view, you've already learned something from it. If you want to consider ways to organize relevant data and project outcomes which can be measured against your value standard, keep reading.My main question is this, if I am interested in making ethical decisions, is it worth my time in continuing to learn about ethics? Will I eventually learn things that have some applicability? Or am I going to only learn about how to critique others decisions?
If you want a how-to manual, get one of the thousands of self-help books for business managers.
Or go to a church.
- EthicsQuestions
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Re: Ethical Decisions - Will I learn how to make them or just to point out flaws?
I do have a system of values, and I am quite capable of using them to help me made good decisions. I was hoping ethics was going to help me in situations where the best way of applying those values was unclear.If people cannot agree on the best approach to ethics, than how can you really make a decision that is ethically correct?
Look to the result.
You presumably have a system of values - a sense of what's good and bad, what's important and trivial, what takes precedence, what should be preserved, what should not happen. If you haven't got that sorted out, nobody can help you make a decision of any kind.
That was my attempt to show that I am struggling to understand how Ethics is used. It is not how I made decisions. Was that really unclear to you?If I am an employer and an employee has stolen money from the till, how can I use ethics to help me make a decision about whether to fire the employee? I could say that "stealing is bad" and fire the employee - but the teleologist will say that I am wrong to do that because the employee with not be able to feed their family... If I don't fire the employee the deontologist will say "your employee stole from you, the ethical thing to do is to fire them".
If that's how you choose, you're too immature to be in charge of a potted plant, let alone other people's livelihood.
That is the depth of my insight i'm afraid. That is why I have come here - to learn.So, it would seem that every possible outcome has an argument in favour and an argument against - so it is unclear how this is any more helpful than flipping a coin?
If that's the depth of your insight, flipping a coin is as viable an options as any.
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Re: Ethical Decisions - Will I learn how to make them or just to point out flaws?
You won't learn insight here.EthicsQuestions wrote: ↑June 22nd, 2019, 8:49 am it would seem that every possible outcome has an argument in favour and an argument against - so it is unclear how this is any more helpful than flipping a coin?
That is the depth of my insight i'm afraid. That is why I have come here - to learn.
You'll have to go out into the world and see people in their environments; see the circumstances in which they live, what they're up against, what their options are, what motivates them, what limits them and what enables them. Reading helps, but you needn't confine it to textbooks: try literature - the kind that endures more than a decade. Just for perspective.
If you have set of durable values, you don't need anyone to teach you ethics.
Just try to do the least possible amount of harm.
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