Ethics and comedy

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Belindi
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Re: Ethics and comedy

Post by Belindi »

Steve3007 wrote: July 15th, 2019, 4:09 am I hadn't previously heard of "The Good Place" so googled it. Is it a satire on the concept of an afterlife?

I've always been in two minds about the value of satire. Sometimes it seems like the only effective way to encapsulate the madnesses of the world, but I think it also runs the risk of creating an entirely cynical and negative worldview. Comedy which relies for its humour on social and political commentary is, by its nature, critical, negative and mocking. I find it difficult to imagine a form of comedy which relies for its humour on saying something positive or complementary about out culture or politics.
That could be because people for whom life is startlingly tragic don't need to be startled.
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LuckyR
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Re: Ethics and comedy

Post by LuckyR »

Sculptor1 wrote: July 15th, 2019, 7:11 am
Steve3007 wrote: July 15th, 2019, 3:59 am

I think that's true in the same sense that most people on Earth have absolutely no awareness of gravity. i.e. they have a good everyday intuitive, practical knowledge of it, because it's an integral part of the environment in which they exist and that knowledge is extremely useful for surviving in that environment, but they are not familiar with Newton's law of Universal Gravitation and have never heard of Kepler.
You are just compounding your error here.
100% of people have an awareness of gravity.
Not dissimilar to the way 100% of folks have an awareness that there are certain unwritten rules that govern behavior within a society?
"As usual... it depends."
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Sculptor1
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Re: Ethics and comedy

Post by Sculptor1 »

LuckyR wrote: July 15th, 2019, 4:14 pm
Sculptor1 wrote: July 15th, 2019, 7:11 am

You are just compounding your error here.
100% of people have an awareness of gravity.
Not dissimilar to the way 100% of folks have an awareness that there are certain unwritten rules that govern behavior within a society?
Yes, unknown knowns.
But where gravity is concerned the reality often comes hard first thing in the morning when you get out of bed.
Steve3007
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Re: Ethics and comedy

Post by Steve3007 »

Sculptor1 wrote:You are just compounding your error here.
Compounding what error? What error did I make prior to the post to which you were replying here, which was compounded by that post?
100% of people have an awareness of gravity.
Yes. That was my point. Hence this:
Steve3007 wrote:they have a good everyday intuitive, practical knowledge of it, ...
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Felix
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Re: Ethics and comedy

Post by Felix »

Never thought of Joan Rivers as a radical comedian - Lenny Bruce, sure, and he paid the price for it. But she was self deprecating, you can get away with a lot more if you imply that the joke is on the joker too.
"We do not see things as they are; we see things as we are." - Anaïs Nin
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h_k_s
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Re: Ethics and comedy

Post by h_k_s »

Steve3007 wrote: July 15th, 2019, 3:59 am
h_k_s wrote:Most people on this Earth have absolutely no awareness of ethics at all.
I think that's true in the same sense that most people on Earth have absolutely no awareness of gravity. i.e. they have a good everyday intuitive, practical knowledge of it, because it's an integral part of the environment in which they exist and that knowledge is extremely useful for surviving in that environment, but they are not familiar with Newton's law of Universal Gravitation and have never heard of Kepler.
I was reading a science article recently which stated that even to this day we do not know what causes gravity.
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Mark1955
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Re: Ethics and comedy

Post by Mark1955 »

Steve3007 wrote: July 15th, 2019, 3:59 am
h_k_s wrote:Most people on this Earth have absolutely no awareness of ethics at all.
I think that's true in the same sense that most people on Earth have absolutely no awareness of gravity. i.e. they have a good everyday intuitive, practical knowledge of it, because it's an integral part of the environment in which they exist and that knowledge is extremely useful for surviving in that environment, but they are not familiar with Newton's law of Universal Gravitation and have never heard of Kepler.
The difference between the theoretical academic world and the one the rest of us live in. In the former you have to know which academic described the phenomenon using what equation, in the latter you you just know things fall down.
If you think you know the answer you probably don't understand the question.
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Mark1955
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Re: Ethics and comedy

Post by Mark1955 »

Steve3007 wrote: July 15th, 2019, 4:09 am I hadn't previously heard of "The Good Place" so googled it. Is it a satire on the concept of an afterlife?

I've always been in two minds about the value of satire. Sometimes it seems like the only effective way to encapsulate the madnesses of the world, but I think it also runs the risk of creating an entirely cynical and negative worldview. Comedy which relies for its humour on social and political commentary is, by its nature, critical, negative and mocking. I find it difficult to imagine a form of comedy which relies for its humour on saying something positive or complementary about out culture or politics.
I'd suggest all comedy is critical, negative and mocking, it appears to be the only way to get throught the rhino hide of the arrogant and self satisfied.
If you think you know the answer you probably don't understand the question.
Steve3007
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Re: Ethics and comedy

Post by Steve3007 »

Mark1955 wrote:I'd suggest all comedy is critical, negative and mocking, it appears to be the only way to get throught the rhino hide of the arrogant and self satisfied.
I don't think all comedy is like that. But satire is.
Belindi
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Re: Ethics and comedy

Post by Belindi »

'Father Ted' and "Steptoe and Son" are satires that besides critical,negative, and mocking, are humane. Is there any popular satire that's not humane?
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Mark1955
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Re: Ethics and comedy

Post by Mark1955 »

Steve3007 wrote: July 22nd, 2019, 5:00 pm
Mark1955 wrote:I'd suggest all comedy is critical, negative and mocking, it appears to be the only way to get throught the rhino hide of the arrogant and self satisfied.
I don't think all comedy is like that. But satire is.
An example of non critical, negative or mocking comedy would be..............
If you think you know the answer you probably don't understand the question.
Steve3007
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Re: Ethics and comedy

Post by Steve3007 »

An example of non critical, negative or mocking comedy would be..............
The Monty Python Cheese Shop sketch? That one relies simply on the alleged comedic value of listing many, many different types of cheeses and imagining the existence of a shop that claims cheese as its main trading commodity but which doesn't actually stock any of them.
Steve3007
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Re: Ethics and comedy

Post by Steve3007 »

Belindi wrote:'Father Ted' and "Steptoe and Son" are satires that besides critical,negative, and mocking, are humane. Is there any popular satire that's not humane?
I wouldn't really class those two as satires. I suppose you might say that Father Ted satirises Irish Catholic Priests and associated stereotypes, but it seems to me too bizarre and surreal to be fully characterised as a satire in the way that, say, "The Thick Of It" is. And I don't think Steptoe and Son is a satire of rag and bone men. But it does seem to be the classic example of the comedy of thwarted aspirations to intellectual greatness and desperate but futile attempts to break out of the class system, in the same vein as Hancock or Fawlty Towers.
Belindi
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Re: Ethics and comedy

Post by Belindi »

Father Ted satirises Roman Catholicism. Wasn't it banned in Ireland?

Steptoe and Son satirises our pussyfooting around old age and death.
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Felix
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Re: Ethics and comedy

Post by Felix »

As an American, most of your British comedy references are a mystery to me. Of course Monty Python was well known here. I remember their "school of silly walks" skit, very funny. It was considered slapstick, all in good fun, perhaps now in these politically correct times, it would be considered ridiculing disabled people, don't know. Almost everything is taken literally these days, and humor has become a victim of that austerity.
"We do not see things as they are; we see things as we are." - Anaïs Nin
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