If you KNOW that someone is going to kill someone else, you GO TO THE POLICE.
Utilitarianism vs Deontological Morality
- h_k_s
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Re: Utilitarianism vs Deontological Morality
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Re: Utilitarianism vs Deontological Morality
Yes you would but what happens if there are no police to ring.. instead you have a gun in your hand and the Joker is walking over to get his knives... you got 5 seconds.....5, 4, 3, 2, 1 slitting throat time
- LuckyR
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Re: Utilitarianism vs Deontological Morality
OK, so the Joker is dead in a pool of blood. You're standing there with a smoking gun. The cops arrive. They question you. What are you sayin'?
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- LuckyR
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Re: Utilitarianism vs Deontological Morality
20 years to life. Hope it was worth it...
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- h_k_s
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Re: Utilitarianism vs Deontological Morality
Most States' laws permit you to shoot someone who is in the act of committing a murder.
But he/she/they must be in the act.
No paradoxes or dilemmas there.
- h_k_s
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Re: Utilitarianism vs Deontological Morality
The best thing is to say nothing until a lawyer who is representing you arrives.
Then make all your statements through the lawyer.
Ask for written questions.
Answer in writing as appropriate or plead the 5th as necessary.
- h_k_s
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Re: Utilitarianism vs Deontological Morality
In this case, if it is your duty to hold onto the lever, then you must ethically and morally hold onto the lever and thus sacrifice your child for the people on the train.
But if you are simply a bystander who is holding the lever, not a railroad engineer, then your duty to your child is higher, and you should let go of the lever and save your child.
Paradox and dilemma.
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Re: Utilitarianism vs Deontological Morality
- Newme
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Re: Utilitarianism vs Deontological Morality
Many stop there, but if you realize that each person in this world is also a precious child, parent etc., then you see that maybe you also have an obligation toward them. Then the utilitarian sense of morality - which seems less emotional - more logical (based on numbers - helping the most) may apply.
A real life example that may relate. A woman’s son was displaying concerning behavior (talk of suicide etc), so from a young age, he was as he says “a guinea pig” to experiment on to figure out the effects of many different types of medication. Unfortunately, many of the meds had horrible side effects - and seemed to make him think, feel and act very dysfunctionally. He got caught sexually molesting other kids on the school bus & was brought before CPS counselors. His mom didn’t seem to care about the children he molested but was enraged that adults would question her son as they did. She was still protective and enabling of her son & years later he did worse and hurt his sister/her daughter.
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Re: Utilitarianism vs Deontological Morality
Yeah when it comes to utilitarianism holding on to the lever is immoral, right? Because the action of holding onto the lever doesn't maximizes the happiness, for the majority.... i.e. the people on the train..h_k_s wrote: ↑July 21st, 2019, 9:11 am The classic conundrum that I have always heard about the train switching engineer is that he is holding the lever to divert a train when his little child wanders onto the tracks. If he lets go of the lever everyone on the train dies. If he holds onto the lever his child gets run over by the train.
Yes it's a dilemma.
What about this, is it moral for a 18 year old girl to be forced into prositution if it maximizes the happiness, for the greatest number of people... i.e. 100+ men.. I mean it maximizes the happiness of the majority.. if your a utilitarian, is forcing a 18 year old girl into prositution moral?
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Re: Utilitarianism vs Deontological Morality
I'm beginning to think with utilitarianism it's very hard to stay consistent. See I talk about what is moral systems, so with look into Kant's categorical imperative... it sounds interesting.Hereandnow wrote: ↑July 14th, 2019, 10:48 am Interesting thing about Kant is that his categorical imperative is reducible to consequentialism, or nearly so. If I am in some moral dilemma, say, the familiar one about having to return someone's ax when there is clear drunken murderous intent, Kant asks us to, if you will, pull out the rational calculator: I should only return the ax if I can will it to be a universal law that all do this in a situation like this one. But how does one evaluate the situation? One has to describe it, analyze it's details, and this makes my maxim quite complicated, for it is not about returning axes at bad times, it is about this time and all of the circumstantial details that apply must be figured in. Perhaps returning the ax will end in the death of a serial killer who would otherwise go free. Then you maxim becomes should a person return an ax to the rightful owner who has at time Y murderous intent that would spare many of a horrible death? The rightness of universalizing the maxim now turns where? To utility. If you think this a wrong interpretation of Kant's moral theory, let me know....
Your thoughts?
- Pantagruel
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Re: Utilitarianism vs Deontological Morality
Actually John Stuart Mill was a very important proponent of Utilitarianism but his variety includes critical concepts of "duty" and "obligations of perfect" justice which would tend to balance cases such as these...Kaz_1983 wrote: ↑July 24th, 2019, 11:24 pmYeah when it comes to utilitarianism holding on to the lever is immoral, right? Because the action of holding onto the lever doesn't maximizes the happiness, for the majority.... i.e. the people on the train..h_k_s wrote: ↑July 21st, 2019, 9:11 am The classic conundrum that I have always heard about the train switching engineer is that he is holding the lever to divert a train when his little child wanders onto the tracks. If he lets go of the lever everyone on the train dies. If he holds onto the lever his child gets run over by the train.
Yes it's a dilemma.
What about this, is it moral for a 18 year old girl to be forced into prositution if it maximizes the happiness, for the greatest number of people... i.e. 100+ men.. I mean it maximizes the happiness of the majority.. if your a utilitarian, is forcing a 18 year old girl into prositution moral?
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Re: Utilitarianism vs Deontological Morality
2023/2024 Philosophy Books of the Month
Mark Victor Hansen, Relentless: Wisdom Behind the Incomparable Chicken Soup for the Soul
by Mitzi Perdue
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Rediscovering the Wisdom of Human Nature: How Civilization Destroys Happiness
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March 2023