Is it unethical or immoral to sell N95 mask RN?

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anon13d4
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Is it unethical or immoral to sell N95 mask RN?

Post by anon13d4 » March 14th, 2020, 8:44 pm

I'm wondering if it's unethical to sell N95 mask rn?

I'm charing near or close to the same it would cost to get one in store, I'm not charing $800 like some other ppl.

But is what I'm doing unethical?

These mask are more of a security blanket than something that would prevent you from getting the virus.

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Re: Is it unethical or immoral to sell N95 mask RN?

Post by Terrapin Station » March 25th, 2020, 12:07 pm

I wouldn't say it's unethical (and there isn't a correct answer as to whether anything is ethical or unethical, by the way), but buying just one is pretty useless. They're not designed to be worn more than once. If one is going to attempt to wear the same mask multiple times, they really need to be sterilized before each wear, or they're not going to be effective.

People need to know how to put them on correctly, or they won't be effective, and they also impede breathing, so it's not wise to wear one unless you need to, and then only for the length of time you need to wear it.

Most masks that people are buying and wearing (not N95s) are useless period for preventing acquisition of the virus, by the way. The virus is smaller than the gaps in the mask material.

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Re: Is it unethical or immoral to sell N95 mask RN?

Post by Pattern-chaser » March 25th, 2020, 12:13 pm

Is this a real topic, or one posted to induce conflict, dischord and disagreement? You have made only one post here (so far). Are you a real person?
Pattern-chaser

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Re: Is it unethical or immoral to sell N95 mask RN?

Post by h_k_s » March 25th, 2020, 1:20 pm

I have to wonder if any of these mask hoarders is sane? Or are they just morally corrupt and willing to do anything, even kidnapping, for a buck? Hoarding masks is like kidnapping children.

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Re: Is it unethical or immoral to sell N95 mask RN?

Post by h_k_s » March 25th, 2020, 1:25 pm

When I saw this Chinese virus on the news hitting Woohan, it became obvious to me that it would similarly strike the USA eventually, since there is so much air traffic between the PRC and the USA.

So fearing a similar shelter in place order here in my state, I stocked my freezer full of beef, chicken, shrimp, vegies, and bagels. This way I could survive a shelter in place order for a month or two.

But I did not get any masks. I have large handkerchiefs that I can use as masks if I need them. Masks are needed by healthcare workers to treat the sick, not by civilians who otherwise never would see the inside of a hospital.

I should have stocked up on Everclear. I did not imagine the liquor store would run out of this branded product. However Everclear is now being used to make hand sanitizer, which is one of the most useless products in the world. Washing hands does not require hand sanitizer.

Instead of Everclear, which never gives you a headache because it is so pure, I have had to start buying Bombay Sapphire gin, which is twice as expensive. But any gin is better than no gin.

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Re: Is it unethical or immoral to sell N95 mask RN?

Post by Terrapin Station » March 25th, 2020, 1:36 pm

h_k_s wrote:
March 25th, 2020, 1:25 pm
I should have stocked up on Everclear. I did not imagine the liquor store would run out of this branded product. However Everclear is now being used to make hand sanitizer, which is one of the most useless products in the world. Washing hands does not require hand sanitizer.
I was using hand sanitizer a lot when gyms were still open. There was conflicting evidence on how much good hand sanitizers were against the virus, but I figured it couldn't hurt, in addition to wiping the equipment down before and after use like normal.

Doesn't matter now that gyms are unfortunately closed.

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Re: Is it unethical or immoral to sell N95 mask RN?

Post by LuckyR » March 25th, 2020, 4:40 pm

Terrapin Station wrote:
March 25th, 2020, 12:07 pm
I wouldn't say it's unethical (and there isn't a correct answer as to whether anything is ethical or unethical, by the way), but buying just one is pretty useless. They're not designed to be worn more than once. If one is going to attempt to wear the same mask multiple times, they really need to be sterilized before each wear, or they're not going to be effective.

People need to know how to put them on correctly, or they won't be effective, and they also impede breathing, so it's not wise to wear one unless you need to, and then only for the length of time you need to wear it.

Most masks that people are buying and wearing (not N95s) are useless period for preventing acquisition of the virus, by the way. The virus is smaller than the gaps in the mask material.
Well, yes and no. The pores in the masks are indeed larger than the size of the virus itself. Though since airborne virus is aerosolized within water droplets (upon coughing) the pores are smaller than those droplets and will prevent their crossing to the inside of the mask. Having said that, if you are not hanging out with folks who are actively coughing, the mask will provide the much more vital role of blocking you rubbing your face after touching hard surfaces that happen to harbor virus. So still useful.
"As usual... it depends."

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Re: Is it unethical or immoral to sell N95 mask RN?

Post by Terrapin Station » March 25th, 2020, 7:09 pm

LuckyR wrote:
March 25th, 2020, 4:40 pm
Well, yes and no. The pores in the masks are indeed larger than the size of the virus itself. Though since airborne virus is aerosolized within water droplets (upon coughing) the pores are smaller than those droplets and will prevent their crossing to the inside of the mask. Having said that, if you are not hanging out with folks who are actively coughing, the mask will provide the much more vital role of blocking you rubbing your face after touching hard surfaces that happen to harbor virus. So still useful.
Every expert I read said the non N95 masks do no good against the virus. Maybe you can link to an expert saying otherwise?

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Re: Is it unethical or immoral to sell N95 mask RN?

Post by Bluemist » March 26th, 2020, 3:43 pm

LuckyR wrote:
March 25th, 2020, 4:40 pm
Terrapin Station wrote:
March 25th, 2020, 12:07 pm
People need to know how to put [masks] on correctly, or they won't be effective, and they also impede breathing, so it's not wise to wear one unless you need to, and then only for the length of time you need to wear it.

Most masks that people are buying and wearing (not N95s) are useless period for preventing acquisition of the virus, by the way. The virus is smaller than the gaps in the mask material.
Well, yes and no. The pores in the masks are indeed larger than the size of the virus itself. Though since airborne virus is aerosolized within water droplets (upon coughing) the pores are smaller than those droplets and will prevent their crossing to the inside of the mask. Having said that, if you are not hanging out with folks who are actively coughing, the mask will provide the much more vital role of blocking you rubbing your face after touching hard surfaces that happen to harbor virus. So still useful.

The virus isn't attacking any one of us but the genetics of the entire species. With the air currents that carry tiny moisture droplets it will in time circle the Earth and find everyone no matter where we hide. Airplanes do make the process so much more efficient by creating many remote silent origins. This is quite normal and regular in the biosphere that Earth is. Maybe we'll all wake up tomorrow morning having all of us been metamorphosed into giant Kafka-esque creatures?

The vast majority of people, perhaps 90%, will have sufficient built-in biological resources to combat and subdue the invaders just as we do for other novel viruses as children. For the other 10% it gets complicated.

Whether the masks are or are not effective in preventing the virus is the wrong question to ask. The right question is to what degree does this mask, or wet handkerchief, decrease the density of viruses we absorb given the circumstances of use. For simpler analysis one can ask if the mask, and the necessary complementary goggles of course, make things worse? This second question builds a decision cutoff that is easier to judge, rightly or wrongly, by gut reaction.
If you don't believe in telekinesis then raise your right hand :wink:

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Re: Is it unethical or immoral to sell N95 mask RN?

Post by Terrapin Station » March 26th, 2020, 6:09 pm

Bluemist wrote:
March 26th, 2020, 3:43 pm
The virus isn't attacking any one of us but the genetics of the entire species. With the air currents that carry tiny moisture droplets it will in time circle the Earth and find everyone no matter where we hide.
It doesn't float around indefinitely, and it doesn't last forever. It's susceptible to UV radiation among other things. It's not attacking anyone's genetics, let along the "entire species." It's not a genetic disorder. It's just a virus.

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Re: Is it unethical or immoral to sell N95 mask RN?

Post by Bluemist » March 26th, 2020, 7:10 pm

It may not float around indefinitely but it will stay in the air of rooms, streets even pastures to find everyone. Just a matter of time. Time is a variable in reaching everyone. Contact with infected surfaces is also a factor. It might take years in some cases, but it will get there.

I'm confused. Don't viruses contain RNA or DNA genetic material from foreign sources?
If you don't believe in telekinesis then raise your right hand :wink:

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Re: Is it unethical or immoral to sell N95 mask RN?

Post by Terrapin Station » March 27th, 2020, 5:35 am

Bluemist wrote:
March 26th, 2020, 7:10 pm
It may not float around indefinitely but it will stay in the air of rooms, streets even pastures to find everyone. Just a matter of time. Time is a variable in reaching everyone. Contact with infected surfaces is also a factor. It might take years in some cases, but it will get there.

I'm confused. Don't viruses contain RNA or DNA genetic material from foreign sources?
Again, the virus doesn't remain viable indefinitely. It has a limited time span before it becomes degraded enough that it's inert, especially in some environments, such as when exposed to strong, sustained UV radiation, when exposed to certain chemicals (including simple soap), etc.

And yes, viruses contain RNA or DNA (it depends on the virus), but that doesn't amount to something that attacks our genetics.

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Re: Is it unethical or immoral to sell N95 mask RN?

Post by h_k_s » March 29th, 2020, 2:00 pm

Terrapin Station wrote:
March 25th, 2020, 1:36 pm
h_k_s wrote:
March 25th, 2020, 1:25 pm
I should have stocked up on Everclear. I did not imagine the liquor store would run out of this branded product. However Everclear is now being used to make hand sanitizer, which is one of the most useless products in the world. Washing hands does not require hand sanitizer.
I was using hand sanitizer a lot when gyms were still open. There was conflicting evidence on how much good hand sanitizers were against the virus, but I figured it couldn't hurt, in addition to wiping the equipment down before and after use like normal.

Doesn't matter now that gyms are unfortunately closed.
Clorox wipes are the best microbe killing product available.

I use a couple of these folded together to clean off my desk top, keyboard, mouse, and phone every morning when I get to work. I also wipe down the chairs and electronic signature pad and anything else that yesterday's clients might have touched.

The Clorox wipes kill anything that is on my hands as well. I then rinse off my hands in cold water in the sink in the bathroom and then get to work.

I avoid shaking hands all day long now, as advised by our State Governor recently. Then after a client leaves, I wash my hands in the sink again.

Clorox wipes work. Hand sanitizer is a joke.

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Re: Is it unethical or immoral to sell N95 mask RN?

Post by creation » March 29th, 2020, 2:42 pm

Terrapin Station wrote:
March 25th, 2020, 7:09 pm
LuckyR wrote:
March 25th, 2020, 4:40 pm
Well, yes and no. The pores in the masks are indeed larger than the size of the virus itself. Though since airborne virus is aerosolized within water droplets (upon coughing) the pores are smaller than those droplets and will prevent their crossing to the inside of the mask. Having said that, if you are not hanging out with folks who are actively coughing, the mask will provide the much more vital role of blocking you rubbing your face after touching hard surfaces that happen to harbor virus. So still useful.
Every expert I read said the non N95 masks do no good against the virus. Maybe you can link to an expert saying otherwise?
Do doctors and nurses who work with patients with viruses use marks, N95 or not?

Are they experts? Or, are you looking for other types of so called "experts"?

Do you need to be told, by an expert, that any mask is better than no mask before you would walk into a ward full of patients with viruses without a mask on?

I am not sure an "expert" would say that any mask other than a N95 mask is no good. So, there is no use in wearing no mask at all, other than a N95 mask, when working and dealing with patients with viruses. Maybe you could link to an expert saying something like this?

Or, maybe you or those so called "experts" might like to show how much faith you have in that belief that those masks "do no good against viruses" by removing the only masks you have to wear that are not N95 if and when you have to work with or deal with patients with viruses?

Do you think you would be up for that challenge?

Surely, if those masks "do no good against viruses", then there is absolutely no use at all in wearing them, when working with those with a virus, correct?

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Re: Is it unethical or immoral to sell N95 mask RN?

Post by Terrapin Station » March 29th, 2020, 6:23 pm

creation wrote:
March 29th, 2020, 2:42 pm
Terrapin Station wrote:
March 25th, 2020, 7:09 pm


Every expert I read said the non N95 masks do no good against the virus. Maybe you can link to an expert saying otherwise?
Do doctors and nurses who work with patients with viruses use marks, N95 or not? . . .
What I'd be interested in response to my comment is a link quoting an expert saying that the non-N95 masks are effective against the virus. What you wrote isn't something I'm interested in as a response.

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