If you like that sort of thing, go for it.
I'd rather have some meat that has taste.
If you like that sort of thing, go for it.
Pattern-chaser wrote:My personal feeling is that there is little point in complaining about the eating of other living creatures when most living creatures do this, and always have done this, to survive. It is a fact of the world, and to complain about it is to complain about the sun being too bright, or too dim. It just is.
No, it's just the example I chose of something that is part of life, the universe and everything; it just is. If we make moral value judgements on it, we're wasting our time. It's not subject to our whims or wishes; it won't change because we want it to. It does what it does regardless of us. That's why I chose it as an example.
Yes, but we don't choose NOT to eat. We need to eat something or we'll die. What does it matter if we choose to eat other living things, animal or plant, when most other living things do the same? Can we really get on our moral high horses and condemn the consumption of other living things, when this very practice is a basic feature of nearly all the life on our planet? That would be arrogant, and pointless too, IMO.
Ah, now you introduce how we treat the animals we eat, before we kill and eat them. A different but related issue, just as important. I prefer to be honest and say: I am willing for other animals to be humanely kept and killed, so that I can eat their flesh, so that I can survive and thrive. This is in accord with "the natural way of things".
I wanted to write about how there is too much difference between rich and poor but I have no real solution other than a religious one.Steve3007 wrote: ↑May 26th, 2021, 5:26 amYes, meat particularly. Like a lot of things it's artificially cheap in the sense that the economics of it treat certain things as cost-free. The trouble is, it's very difficult to fight against economics, particularly when it's global. If you tell a poor hard working family that food (or specifically meat) is artificially cheap they'll probably, quite reasonably, fight back against that.Belindi wrote:Food is too cheap.
This is interesting, and it sounds plausible. Why haven't I heard of this before? Are there links, or whatever, that you know of?
Trouble is, if you look into it a bit, you find that it's a picture of pregnant sows in a thing called a "gestation crate" and then you find arguments on both sides. For example, you even find people claiming that studies have shown that the pregnant sows choose to go into those little spaces when given the chance to go somewhere bigger. I'm not saying I believe them. But one of the many issues in the moral maze which is animal rights/welfare is the one of anthropomorphism. It's difficult for us not to look at pictures and simply think "how would I like it if I were in that situation?". If taken to extremes, this kind of anthropomorphic empathy leads to the craziness of thinking that blades of grass consciously concern themselves with human agricultural habits.Pattern-chaser wrote:The pictures Sy Borg posted are horrible. There is no need to treat our food animals in this way. Only our greed for profit causes us to act so. If we could only address the greed and the profit, I suspect all other issues might right themselves.
It's a thing that came up on recently QI on the BBC. I've not dipped into the evidence ytet, but you can be sure it has some basis. I'll let you know when I find out more.Pattern-chaser wrote: ↑May 27th, 2021, 10:13 amThis is interesting, and it sounds plausible. Why haven't I heard of this before? Are there links, or whatever, that you know of?
The lies about gestation crates may be based on the same faulty claims about hens choosing to stay in barns, even after the door is open. By the same token, inmates who have been incarcerated since youth will often commit crimes to go back to environs to which they have been conditioned.Steve3007 wrote: ↑May 27th, 2021, 10:20 amTrouble is, if you look into it a bit, you find that it's a picture of pregnant sows in a thing called a "gestation crate" and then you find arguments on both sides. For example, you even find people claiming that studies have shown that the pregnant sows choose to go into those little spaces when given the chance to go somewhere bigger. I'm not saying I believe them. But one of the many issues in the moral maze which is animal rights/welfare is the one of anthropomorphism. It's difficult for us not to look at pictures and simply think "how would I like it if I were in that situation?". If taken to extremes, this kind of anthropomorphic empathy leads to the craziness of thinking that blades of grass consciously concern themselves with human agricultural habits.Pattern-chaser wrote:The pictures Sy Borg posted are horrible. There is no need to treat our food animals in this way. Only our greed for profit causes us to act so. If we could only address the greed and the profit, I suspect all other issues might right themselves. 🤔
Belindi wrote:What went wrong with communism?
Sounds like a queue for a new topic.What went wrong with communism that was supposed to distribute luxuries equally?
Humans are of course not the only beings to experience their lives, but I think instances of inapplicable anthropomorphism still do exist. I think this from personal experience of my own attitudes, apart from anything else. I think empathy is a mixed blessing. On the plus side, I believe it's the key emotion that we use in creating the moral codes that we believe in and aspire to live by. Without it, we're psychopaths. On the downside, as with any analogy, it can be overstretched. I've definitely found myself overstretching it when trying to assess the wellbeing of family pets (goldish, rabbit, cat). It's particularly difficult to use empathy to figure out whether a goldfish is living a fulfilling life, I've found.Sy Borg wrote:Sadly, if you suggest that an intelligent mammal with a complex nervous system has any emotions or displays any creative intelligence, there will always be someone to claim anthropomorphism, as if humans were the only beings ever to experience their lives.
Thanks! I suppose I should say, form an orderly cue. I mean queue.Pattern-chaser wrote:Your wish is my command! Follow the link to the new topic:
For those who aren't used to following those little tiny up-arrow links, here is a 'normal' link. Having said that, I hope it works, as I won't be able to edit or delete this post. []
Mark Victor Hansen, Relentless: Wisdom Behind the Incomparable Chicken Soup for the Soul
by Mitzi Perdue
February 2023
Rediscovering the Wisdom of Human Nature: How Civilization Destroys Happiness
by Chet Shupe
March 2023