Is inaction morally wrong?

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Terrapin Station
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Re: Is inaction morally wrong?

Post by Terrapin Station »

Where this is more typically an issue in the actual world is inaction when a crime is being committed. That's why I brought up witnessing a rape in my comment. People who have witnessed crimes but who have not done anything to stop them have sometimes been charged as accessories to the crime in question, but that's controversial, and to an extent hinges on the exact circumstances--so that it's sometimes hinged on whether the person could be seen as encouraging the crime rather than simply being aware of it.

Personally I wouldn't make merely witnessing a crime illegal. I wouldn't even make encouraging a crime illegal, and I don't agree with conspiracy (to commit a crime) being illegal. Legally, I only hold the person who physically committed the crime responsible, which means that if someone is encouraging you, plotting with you, paying you, etc. to commit a crime, it's your responsibility to refrain from committing the crime.
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Re: Is inaction morally wrong?

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If one doesn't take actions , this is mostly the normal behaviour of persons , that somehow compare the consequnces of their reactions with the outcome. If the outcome is neglectable, all reactions in any direction are simply in vain. Modern politics relies on the fact that the average member of a national parliament has at least 20 million dollar financial endowment. It's simply unrealistic , to think of politics not as a sport of the the wealthy and rich.
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LuckyR
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Re: Is inaction morally wrong?

Post by LuckyR »

Greta wrote: May 28th, 2020, 6:53 pm
Marin wrote: May 28th, 2020, 7:25 am

Yes, I am aware of the legal implications that may arise in the trolley case. If you pulled the lever, chances are you are going to be punishment. If you don't act, you probably won't. I was looking more for a philosophical discussion that a legal one
But this is the world we live in, not a world where one can pull a level to kill someone and have one's story believed. Even then, as per euthanasia (where the trolley problem can apply), it's not unusual for people who are doing the greatest good possible being sent to prison for doing so.
To my mind the Trolley problem, as a lose/lose proposition, carries little to no moral equity. Neither choice is morally superior nor inferior to the other. There is no there, there. Similarly, it carries little legal risk, if one is defended well. It is reducible to a mildly interesting thought experiment demonstrating not much.

As to the OP's question (which I obviously don't think is represented well by the Trolley problem), I do see a difference, albeit a small one between outcomes caused by action vs inaction, so it is a legitimate question.
"As usual... it depends."
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Sy Borg
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Re: Is inaction morally wrong?

Post by Sy Borg »

LuckyR wrote: June 1st, 2020, 6:13 pmTo my mind the Trolley problem, as a lose/lose proposition, carries little to no moral equity. Neither choice is morally superior nor inferior to the other. There is no there, there. Similarly, it carries little legal risk, if one is defended well.
Pull the lever and you go to prison. As with euthanasia, you would be taking a life with the intention of doing good and that does not stop the state from imprisoning people who fulfil their dying partner's request to be relieved of daily suffering. Then again, terrorists would say they are doing good too. So judges would not be impressed.
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LuckyR
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Re: Is inaction morally wrong?

Post by LuckyR »

Greta wrote: June 1st, 2020, 6:21 pm
LuckyR wrote: June 1st, 2020, 6:13 pmTo my mind the Trolley problem, as a lose/lose proposition, carries little to no moral equity. Neither choice is morally superior nor inferior to the other. There is no there, there. Similarly, it carries little legal risk, if one is defended well.
Pull the lever and you go to prison. As with euthanasia, you would be taking a life with the intention of doing good and that does not stop the state from imprisoning people who fulfil their dying partner's request to be relieved of daily suffering. Then again, terrorists would say they are doing good too. So judges would not be impressed.
If a decent defense team got five hostages to thank you for saving their lives you'd do fine. The justice system and the public at large despise terrorists, you might get a parade in your honor.
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Re: Is inaction morally wrong?

Post by Belindi »

It's immoral , though not a crime, to fail to enable every citizen to know the facts and use their best judgement.

In some circumstances inaction might be morally better than action. Hitler was slightly unpredictable in 1938 and the inaction of the Munich Agreement was in good faith.
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Sculptor1
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Re: Is inaction morally wrong?

Post by Sculptor1 »

3 police officers remain uncharged for the murder of George Floyd.
Their inaction was immoral. All four officers had a duty of care which all four failed to act on.
As for Chauvin - he is guilty of first degree murder, unless he is a complete moron. Only a moron thinks you can kneel on s person's neck for nine minutes without killing them.
It is my view that the other 3 officers are guilty of conspiracy to commit murder. More than simply morally wrong, but guilty of joint enterprise.

{PS it is known that Chauvin and Floyd worked in the same night club last year. I think there is more to this story than meets the eye. We'll see.}
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Re: Is inaction morally wrong?

Post by Terrapin Station »

Sculptor1 wrote: June 2nd, 2020, 6:45 am 3 police officers remain uncharged for the murder of George Floyd.
Their inaction was immoral. All four officers had a duty of care which all four failed to act on.
As for Chauvin - he is guilty of first degree murder, unless he is a complete moron. Only a moron thinks you can kneel on s person's neck for nine minutes without killing them.
It is my view that the other 3 officers are guilty of conspiracy to commit murder. More than simply morally wrong, but guilty of joint enterprise.

{PS it is known that Chauvin and Floyd worked in the same night club last year. I think there is more to this story than meets the eye. We'll see.}
In my view, the other officer's actions weren't immoral, but they had a professional duty to stop the actions of Chauvin.

Also, unless evidence comes to light of intent, I wouldn't say that Chauvin should be charged with murder. He should be charged with manslaughter/criminally negligent homicide.

I'm not in favor of conspiracy laws period.
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Terrapin Station
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Re: Is inaction morally wrong?

Post by Terrapin Station »

If I were the person who was in the position of filming Chauvin, by the way, I wouldn't have merely stood there videoing. I would have moved in and pushed him off of Floyd. That surely would have gotten me arrested or worse, but that's an acceptable trade-off in my view to watching a policeman stupidly kill someone.

I wouldn't say the person filming had a moral obligation to do this, though, especially given the risks involved. But there's no way I'd just stand by and watch it.
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Re: Is inaction morally wrong?

Post by Belindi »

Good for you Terrapin and I'd have been right beside you.
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Re: Is inaction morally wrong?

Post by Belindi »

Good for you Terrapin and I'd have been right beside you.

It really was premeditated murder. A trained police officer does not act from emotional reaction. Moreover he could have desisted at any point during the nine minutes it took for Mr Floyd to suffocate.
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Sculptor1
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Re: Is inaction morally wrong?

Post by Sculptor1 »

Terrapin Station wrote: June 2nd, 2020, 9:30 am
Sculptor1 wrote: June 2nd, 2020, 6:45 am 3 police officers remain uncharged for the murder of George Floyd.
Their inaction was immoral. All four officers had a duty of care which all four failed to act on.
As for Chauvin - he is guilty of first degree murder, unless he is a complete moron. Only a moron thinks you can kneel on s person's neck for nine minutes without killing them.
It is my view that the other 3 officers are guilty of conspiracy to commit murder. More than simply morally wrong, but guilty of joint enterprise.

{PS it is known that Chauvin and Floyd worked in the same night club last year. I think there is more to this story than meets the eye. We'll see.}
In my view, the other officer's actions weren't immoral, but they had a professional duty to stop the actions of Chauvin.

Also, unless evidence comes to light of intent, I wouldn't say that Chauvin should be charged with murder. He should be charged with manslaughter/criminally negligent homicide.

I'm not in favor of conspiracy laws period.
Police officers have a duty of care for those they have placed under arrest. They are responsible, as much a Chauvin. If they were civilians they'd all be in prison.
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Sculptor1
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Re: Is inaction morally wrong?

Post by Sculptor1 »

Terrapin Station wrote: June 2nd, 2020, 9:34 am If I were the person who was in the position of filming Chauvin, by the way, I wouldn't have merely stood there videoing. I would have moved in and pushed him off of Floyd. That surely would have gotten me arrested or worse, but that's an acceptable trade-off in my view to watching a policeman stupidly kill someone.

I wouldn't say the person filming had a moral obligation to do this, though, especially given the risks involved. But there's no way I'd just stand by and watch it.
And yet you say the other 3 officers did not wrong by doing nothing?
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Sy Borg
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Re: Is inaction morally wrong?

Post by Sy Borg »

I think it is difficult to act against senior or aggressive colleagues. The other officers' actions may have stemmed from weakness rather than concordance.
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Terrapin Station
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Re: Is inaction morally wrong?

Post by Terrapin Station »

Sculptor1 wrote: June 2nd, 2020, 4:27 pm
Terrapin Station wrote: June 2nd, 2020, 9:34 am If I were the person who was in the position of filming Chauvin, by the way, I wouldn't have merely stood there videoing. I would have moved in and pushed him off of Floyd. That surely would have gotten me arrested or worse, but that's an acceptable trade-off in my view to watching a policeman stupidly kill someone.

I wouldn't say the person filming had a moral obligation to do this, though, especially given the risks involved. But there's no way I'd just stand by and watch it.
And yet you say the other 3 officers did not wrong by doing nothing?
Correct. I don't necessarily require others to act as I would.
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