Ethics of helping a blind sibling

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Lori
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Ethics of helping a blind sibling

Post by Lori » September 8th, 2020, 10:37 am

If a family is prosperous and there are 3 adult siblings named Bob, Joe and Anna and Bob has been appointed by the elderly parents to manage their considerable finances, with the understanding that Bob would help his siblings if the need arises, can Bob justify not helping his siblings?? Is the justification for using the parents' money and later, if needed, his own different? or are the reasons for helping with his resources or the parents' resources different? Is Bob ethically and morally obligated to continue helping generously, even when he does not want to share his personal wealth? If the obligation exists does it extend to a time after the parents' passing? Also, if Anna is blind and unable to work, does he have an ethical obligation to help using his personal resources in a manner that continues the parents desire to help their blind daughter? If he doesn't help and doesn't want to help, what does that say about his ethics? and his moral decision-making? Should he enlist the other financially successful family members in helping or should he quietly help without alerting them to Anna's need for financial help? How should Anna's need for financial and other help be defined? Should it be defined by her? by consensus (if possible) that help is needed? by the judgement of Bob, even while he does not want to help? Should the parents be informed that they have appointed a sibling to help that does not want to help? Who should inform the parents?

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Re: Ethics of helping a blind sibling

Post by LuckyR » September 9th, 2020, 2:08 am

Lori wrote:
September 8th, 2020, 10:37 am
If a family is prosperous and there are 3 adult siblings named Bob, Joe and Anna and Bob has been appointed by the elderly parents to manage their considerable finances, with the understanding that Bob would help his siblings if the need arises, can Bob justify not helping his siblings??

Is the justification for using the parents' money and later, if needed, his own different?

or are the reasons for helping with his resources or the parents' resources different?

Is Bob ethically and morally obligated to continue helping generously, even when he does not want to share his personal wealth?

If the obligation exists does it extend to a time after the parents' passing?

Also, if Anna is blind and unable to work, does he have an ethical obligation to help using his personal resources in a manner that continues the parents desire to help their blind daughter?

If he doesn't help and doesn't want to help, what does that say about his ethics?

and his moral decision-making?

Should he enlist the other financially successful family members in helping or should he quietly help without alerting them to Anna's need for financial help?

How should Anna's need for financial and other help be defined?

Should it be defined by her? by consensus (if possible) that help is needed?

by the judgement of Bob, even while he does not want to help?

Should the parents be informed that they have appointed a sibling to help that does not want to help?

Who should inform the parents?
Fourteen questions in a single thread may be a record. Is this the mother of all shotgun questions?

A couple of observations: it sounds like the parents are not only seeking Bob's input on investing but also in the distribution of funds. However if they are competent, Bob can be circumvented and questions can go directly to the parents. OTOH if the parents are incompetent, Bob is the decision maker so while you are free to plead your case to him, he is under no obligation to see things your wsy. As to Anna, surely she was blind before Bob was made the decision maker, so the parent's opinion on her care, if they had specific wishes, would have been taken into account, thus silence on that issue implies no particular interest in addressing her issue beyond their vague directive.

But these are not ethical questions. Thus while Bob's actions (or inaction) can be criticized on moral or ethical grounds, that isn't going to get Anna any closer to where she needs to be.
"As usual... it depends."

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Re: Ethics of helping a blind sibling

Post by Terrapin Station » September 9th, 2020, 8:46 am

First, I'd blame the parents for putting just one of the siblings in charge. In my view that's not a good move to make where the sibling might be making the sorts of decisions you're describing. If there's some reason they want to be careful about how their money goes to their kids while they're still alive, they should (a) appoint an independent person to manage their finances, and (b) make it clear to their kids just what their criteria are.

As for their will, unless it's a very unusual circumstance, I think it's not right to not leave a more or less equal inheritance to each child. It definitely shouldn't be left to just one child to dole out at their discretion. That's some f-ed up parenting in my opinion. Again, I can see putting conditions on an inheritance if a child is very screwed up and you want them to get their life on track in some way before getting the inheritance, but in that case leave it up to a independent money manager who is legally bound to distribute the money once the conditions are met.

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Re: Ethics of helping a blind sibling

Post by Sculptor1 » September 9th, 2020, 9:11 am

Lori wrote:
September 8th, 2020, 10:37 am
If a family is prosperous and there are 3 adult siblings named Bob, Joe and Anna and Bob has been appointed by the elderly parents to manage their considerable finances, with the understanding that Bob would help his siblings if the need arises, can Bob justify not helping his siblings?? Is the justification for using the parents' money and later, if needed, his own different? or are the reasons for helping with his resources or the parents' resources different? Is Bob ethically and morally obligated to continue helping generously, even when he does not want to share his personal wealth? If the obligation exists does it extend to a time after the parents' passing? Also, if Anna is blind and unable to work, does he have an ethical obligation to help using his personal resources in a manner that continues the parents desire to help their blind daughter? If he doesn't help and doesn't want to help, what does that say about his ethics? and his moral decision-making? Should he enlist the other financially successful family members in helping or should he quietly help without alerting them to Anna's need for financial help? How should Anna's need for financial and other help be defined? Should it be defined by her? by consensus (if possible) that help is needed? by the judgement of Bob, even while he does not want to help? Should the parents be informed that they have appointed a sibling to help that does not want to help? Who should inform the parents?
It depends on what the parents expect.
As far as christian morality goes, i'm sure he can wash his hands by quoting "am i my brother's keeper". However since Bob has had the advantage of support through his life from the family, his obligation stretches beyond the deaths of the parents.
My biggest question is why Anna has not been the largest beneficiary of the estate since her need seems far greater than Bob who seems to now have his own resources (I would imagine that he has also had college paid for by the parents who have given him a good start in life).
Is there some reason why Anna was not appointed to manage the finances?
Is that ageism, sexism, or ableism?

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Re: Ethics of helping a blind sibling

Post by Ecurb » September 9th, 2020, 9:54 am

Sculptor1 wrote:
September 9th, 2020, 9:11 am


As far as christian morality goes, i'm sure he can wash his hands by quoting "am i my brother's keeper".
Anyone who has even glanced at the first few pages of the Bible knows that Cain said, "Am I my brother's keeper?"" when God asked him where his dead brother Abel was. I don't think Christian morality involves support for everything a murderer says, even if it is in the Bible. Haven't you watched some adaptations of the Bible on TV, Sculptor?

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Re: Ethics of helping a blind sibling

Post by Sculptor1 » September 9th, 2020, 10:50 am

Ecurb wrote:
September 9th, 2020, 9:54 am
Sculptor1 wrote:
September 9th, 2020, 9:11 am


As far as christian morality goes, i'm sure he can wash his hands by quoting "am i my brother's keeper".
Anyone who has even glanced at the first few pages of the Bible knows that Cain said, "Am I my brother's keeper?"" when God asked him where his dead brother Abel was. I don't think Christian morality involves support for everything a murderer says, even if it is in the Bible. Haven't you watched some adaptations of the Bible on TV, Sculptor?
Cain said that because of the assumption that a man is not his brothers keeper regardless of any crime he might have done.

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Re: Ethics of helping a blind sibling

Post by h_k_s » September 9th, 2020, 1:29 pm

Lori wrote:
September 8th, 2020, 10:37 am
If a family is prosperous and there are 3 adult siblings named Bob, Joe and Anna and Bob has been appointed by the elderly parents to manage their considerable finances, with the understanding that Bob would help his siblings if the need arises, can Bob justify not helping his siblings?? Is the justification for using the parents' money and later, if needed, his own different? or are the reasons for helping with his resources or the parents' resources different? Is Bob ethically and morally obligated to continue helping generously, even when he does not want to share his personal wealth? If the obligation exists does it extend to a time after the parents' passing? Also, if Anna is blind and unable to work, does he have an ethical obligation to help using his personal resources in a manner that continues the parents desire to help their blind daughter? If he doesn't help and doesn't want to help, what does that say about his ethics? and his moral decision-making? Should he enlist the other financially successful family members in helping or should he quietly help without alerting them to Anna's need for financial help? How should Anna's need for financial and other help be defined? Should it be defined by her? by consensus (if possible) that help is needed? by the judgement of Bob, even while he does not want to help? Should the parents be informed that they have appointed a sibling to help that does not want to help? Who should inform the parents?
This is simply a matter of family law.

This is why trusts were created within the banking law. If you don't have a trust in place, then the heirs can do anything with their inherited money.

A trust should have been established for the blind child. And if need be, then the maximum funds to care for the blind child should have been deposited into the trust, with instructions to the trustee how to distribute those funds to the blind child as needed.

Philosophy does not cover family issues. Only family law does.

Family law varies from nation to nation and from American state to state.

Philosophy according to Plato and Aristotle urges people to behave morally. But it cannot force them.

And some philosophers like Machiavelli and Nietzsche don't even care about morality.

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Re: Ethics of helping a blind sibling

Post by h_k_s » September 9th, 2020, 1:33 pm

LuckyR wrote:
September 9th, 2020, 2:08 am
Lori wrote:
September 8th, 2020, 10:37 am
If a family is prosperous and there are 3 adult siblings named Bob, Joe and Anna and Bob has been appointed by the elderly parents to manage their considerable finances, with the understanding that Bob would help his siblings if the need arises, can Bob justify not helping his siblings??

Is the justification for using the parents' money and later, if needed, his own different?

or are the reasons for helping with his resources or the parents' resources different?

Is Bob ethically and morally obligated to continue helping generously, even when he does not want to share his personal wealth?

If the obligation exists does it extend to a time after the parents' passing?

Also, if Anna is blind and unable to work, does he have an ethical obligation to help using his personal resources in a manner that continues the parents desire to help their blind daughter?

If he doesn't help and doesn't want to help, what does that say about his ethics?

and his moral decision-making?

Should he enlist the other financially successful family members in helping or should he quietly help without alerting them to Anna's need for financial help?

How should Anna's need for financial and other help be defined?

Should it be defined by her? by consensus (if possible) that help is needed?

by the judgement of Bob, even while he does not want to help?

Should the parents be informed that they have appointed a sibling to help that does not want to help?

Who should inform the parents?
Fourteen questions in a single thread may be a record. Is this the mother of all shotgun questions?

A couple of observations: it sounds like the parents are not only seeking Bob's input on investing but also in the distribution of funds. However if they are competent, Bob can be circumvented and questions can go directly to the parents. OTOH if the parents are incompetent, Bob is the decision maker so while you are free to plead your case to him, he is under no obligation to see things your wsy. As to Anna, surely she was blind before Bob was made the decision maker, so the parent's opinion on her care, if they had specific wishes, would have been taken into account, thus silence on that issue implies no particular interest in addressing her issue beyond their vague directive.

But these are not ethical questions. Thus while Bob's actions (or inaction) can be criticized on moral or ethical grounds, that isn't going to get Anna any closer to where she needs to be.
I love it when @LuckyR and I agree. It makes me feel very smart !!!

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Re: Ethics of helping a blind sibling

Post by h_k_s » September 9th, 2020, 1:35 pm

Terrapin Station wrote:
September 9th, 2020, 8:46 am
First, I'd blame the parents for putting just one of the siblings in charge. In my view that's not a good move to make where the sibling might be making the sorts of decisions you're describing. If there's some reason they want to be careful about how their money goes to their kids while they're still alive, they should (a) appoint an independent person to manage their finances, and (b) make it clear to their kids just what their criteria are.

As for their will, unless it's a very unusual circumstance, I think it's not right to not leave a more or less equal inheritance to each child. It definitely shouldn't be left to just one child to dole out at their discretion. That's some f-ed up parenting in my opinion. Again, I can see putting conditions on an inheritance if a child is very screwed up and you want them to get their life on track in some way before getting the inheritance, but in that case leave it up to a independent money manager who is legally bound to distribute the money once the conditions are met.
I love it even more when @Terrapin Station and I agree. Then it makes me feel extremely smart !!!

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Re: Ethics of helping a blind sibling

Post by h_k_s » September 9th, 2020, 1:49 pm

Ecurb wrote:
September 9th, 2020, 9:54 am
Sculptor1 wrote:
September 9th, 2020, 9:11 am


As far as christian morality goes, i'm sure he can wash his hands by quoting "am i my brother's keeper".
Anyone who has even glanced at the first few pages of the Bible knows that Cain said, "Am I my brother's keeper?"" when God asked him where his dead brother Abel was. I don't think Christian morality involves support for everything a murderer says, even if it is in the Bible. Haven't you watched some adaptations of the Bible on TV, Sculptor?
Please remember that the "Bible" was not written in English by the hand of God with quill and ink.

Ergo you should always cite the English translation you are referring to.

In this light, I would like to tell you what it really says, in Hebrew, and then translate word for word Hebrew to English:

VE LAMAR YHVH EL QAIN AI AEBEL ACHC?

And YHVH-GOD says to Cain where is Able your brother?

LA YADOYT.

And he says I know not.

HESHOMR ACHI ANI?

Am I the keeper of my brother?

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Re: Ethics of helping a blind sibling

Post by Marvin_Edwards » September 9th, 2020, 2:58 pm

If I understand the scenario correctly, the parents are no longer competent to manage their own finances, so they have given power of attorney to Bob (probably the oldest sibling), because they trust his judgment more than they trust their own. So, Bob is in charge of the money. Any requests for funds must be made directly to Bob. If it turns out that Bob is a jerk, then the parents should have known that before entrusting him with the funds. But if Bob is not a jerk, but only thought to be a jerk by his siblings who are disappointed with his decisions, the other siblings have no recourse other than to make their case to Bob.

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Re: Ethics of helping a blind sibling

Post by Sculptor1 » September 9th, 2020, 3:34 pm

h_k_s wrote:
September 9th, 2020, 1:49 pm
Ecurb wrote:
September 9th, 2020, 9:54 am


Anyone who has even glanced at the first few pages of the Bible knows that Cain said, "Am I my brother's keeper?"" when God asked him where his dead brother Abel was. I don't think Christian morality involves support for everything a murderer says, even if it is in the Bible. Haven't you watched some adaptations of the Bible on TV, Sculptor?
Please remember that the "Bible" was not written in English by the hand of God with quill and ink.
Probably not relevant since Bob is probably ignorant of Biblical Hebrew
...

Am I the keeper of my brother?
[/quote]
And how is this relevant?

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Re: Ethics of helping a blind sibling

Post by Ecurb » September 9th, 2020, 3:53 pm

h_k_s wrote:
September 9th, 2020, 1:49 pm

Please remember that the "Bible" was not written in English by the hand of God with quill and ink.

Ergo you should always cite the English translation you are referring to.
I was using the translation offered in Sculptor's post. This was, perhaps, incautious. However, your version and Sculptor's are almost identical, so I'm not sure what the problem is.

By the way, the Bible I have at home IS written in English, albeit old-fashioned English. I'll gladly agree, however, that neither it not the Hebrew orginal was written by the hand of God.

By the way, G.K. Chesterton defended quoting from memory, and thought that how he REMEMBERED the line was at least as important as how the line was originally written. In G.K.'s case, he often improved the original. Who knows? Maybe some translators do the same.

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Re: Ethics of helping a blind sibling

Post by h_k_s » September 9th, 2020, 4:52 pm

Ecurb wrote:
September 9th, 2020, 3:53 pm
h_k_s wrote:
September 9th, 2020, 1:49 pm

Please remember that the "Bible" was not written in English by the hand of God with quill and ink.

Ergo you should always cite the English translation you are referring to.
I was using the translation offered in Sculptor's post. This was, perhaps, incautious. However, your version and Sculptor's are almost identical, so I'm not sure what the problem is.

By the way, the Bible I have at home IS written in English, albeit old-fashioned English. I'll gladly agree, however, that neither it not the Hebrew orginal was written by the hand of God.

By the way, G.K. Chesterton defended quoting from memory, and thought that how he REMEMBERED the line was at least as important as how the line was originally written. In G.K.'s case, he often improved the original. Who knows? Maybe some translators do the same.
Looks like you at least comprehended some of what I was trying to point out.

First, the "Bible" is religious not philosophical nor scientific.

Second, it is the result of the combined several authors, starting with the alleged original historical author like Moses, or Joshua, or Samuel, or King David, or Nehemiah, or Ezra, etc.

In addition to the original alleged historical author, there were numerous scribes involved throughout the ages and centuries.

In addition to the numerous scribes, there were also numerous translators as well.

So at the very least tell us your version's name, such as KJV, or YLT, etc.

It matters.

By the way, I have found YLT to be the most accurate English translation, although no English translation is perfect. Ergo I normally translate myself out of Hebrew or Greek into English. And even those current extant Hebrew or Greek versions are not perfect, and often times are a hybrid of earlier compilations. ArtScroll does a great job with Hebrew, and Greek is normally the famous St. Stephens compilation in England.

Paraphrasing by the way is useless and invalid unless you state that you are only paraphrasing. But formally you would then need to go back into the original or extant (meaning whatever we have available) Hebrew or Greek and then render it into English literally word for word. YLT (Young's Literal Translation) already does this for you by and large. I have found few errors in YLT, but there are some.

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Re: Ethics of helping a blind sibling

Post by h_k_s » September 9th, 2020, 4:53 pm

Looks like @Sculptor1 made a comment of some kind in response to what I posted.

@Sculptor1 you already know that I muted you for violations of logic and clean debate. So you don't need to quote me. I don't respond to you.

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