Ideal Observer Theory

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Jack D Ripper
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Re: Ideal Observer Theory

Post by Jack D Ripper »

Steve3007 wrote: November 24th, 2020, 12:49 pm If I like chocolate ice cream but my friend prefers vanilla, what flavour does the ideal observer like? I guess if we can answer that we can finally settle the question of which flavour of ice cream is best.

How this plays out depends on the particular theory under consideration. If we look at Hume's position, then what you are discussing is merely personal preference and has nothing to do with morals. In other words, Hume would agree with you that trying to apply morals to that particular question is silly.

(For Hume, morality has to do with sentiments or feelings of benevolence or the feeling of humanity. Other feelings are not the source of morality, and are non-moral. Thus, the preference for chocolate versus vanilla is not a moral issue, since that preference has nothing to do with feelings of benevolence.)
"A wise man ... proportions his belief to the evidence." - David Hume
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Re: Ideal Observer Theory

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It might be worth mentioning, in the thread in which I tried to explain Hume's ethical theory, I did not mention this ideal observer theory:

viewtopic.php?f=3&t=16933

That is because it isn't significant to his ideas of what morality is.

The ideal observer can be a useful idea for judging matters, as, for example, if someone were to judge what would be fair in a case where two people have a dispute, that the person judging that matter should not be one of the parties of the dispute, but an observer who is not connected to the dispute or to either party of the dispute.

How this idea applies to ethics is illustrated by how one would judge a matter in which one is not involved and one does not stand to gain anything no matter how the issue is resolved. One is more likely to judge fairly about some ethical matter when one is not personally involved in it. In Hume, the ideal observer theory (which is a phrase he does not use) is nothing more than that.
"A wise man ... proportions his belief to the evidence." - David Hume
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Re: Ideal Observer Theory

Post by Marvin_Edwards »

Gertie wrote: November 23rd, 2020, 7:18 pm If moral philosophy wants to address the double body blows of the death of god as our perfect moral arbiter and objective moral source, and our knowledge that evolutionary utility is what shaped our dispositions towards 'moral' approval and disgust, we need to think afresh.

What would an appropriate modern fit-for-purpose morality look like? What is it for? What might justify it?
If we strip away the superstitions, the abstractions, the biases, the unnecessary complications, then what are we left with:

Moral judgement compares two alternative rules or courses of action according to their objective benefits and their objective harms for all affected parties.
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Re: Ideal Observer Theory

Post by Sculptor1 »

Kaz_1983 wrote: November 23rd, 2020, 8:12 am What do you guys think of the observer theory?

For anybody that doesn't know “the ideal observer theory’ was first espoused by the philosopher Adam Smith and it's been said that people like David Hume have been supporters of this theory. The "Ideal observer theory" puts forth the idea that what is right is determined by the attitudes that a hypothetical ideal observer would have. To break it down, the Ideal observer theory is the meta-ethical view which claims that ethical sentences express truth-apt propositions about the attitudes of a hypothetical ideal observer.
He leaves it open whether the reaction is sentimental, so there are possible variants of Ideal Observer Theory that are not sentimentalist.
I suppose it comes down to whether you believe that the "Ideal observer" has used reason alone to come to their moral judgement/s or whether moral judgements are based the human sentiments... look at the theory like this;

P1) The ideal observer feels that the idea of murder brings about “moral disgust”

P2) For me, the idea of murder brings about “moral disgust” too

C) I believe that the ideal observer’s feelings about murder are similar to mine.

The ideal observer theory is kind of like your conscience - your conscience or in this case the “Ideal observer”, keeps you in check... there is also a version of that is based on the desires and human sentiments of a hypothetical ideal observer. David Hume apparently espoused a version of the ideal observed theory....
... the reference is not to anyone's actual sentiments, but to sentiments they would have in suitable circumstances. Suggestions of this type of view can be found in Hume and Smith...
To sum it up, for me it sounds a lot like a "subjective" version of the divine command theory, because in both cases we're talking about an ideal observer - just in one case the ideal observer is God and the other one is subjective and what is right and wrong is determined by the attitudes that's a hypothetical ideal observer would have in his possession - both are kind like that.... see in a lot of ways “The ideal observer theory” is kind of like Virtue Ethics, because in both cases the primary focus is on what type of person we should aspire to be.

All quote from here: https://plato.stanford.edu/entries/mora ... #SubIdeDis
What you consider to be an ideal observer would not be the same as my idea of what an ideal observer would do or think.
Thus, such an idea is SUBJECTIVE. and the results dependant on the operator of the theory, rather than any kind of objective moral position.

To take an example, you have only to imagine how such an observer would be thought to react to say women taking a role in a university, in Hume's time, and compare it with the same thought in the modern time. Or the permissability of a homosexual act, for another example.
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Re: Ideal Observer Theory

Post by Sculptor1 »

Marvin_Edwards wrote: November 23rd, 2020, 6:50 pm
Kaz_1983 wrote: November 23rd, 2020, 8:12 am What do you guys think of the observer theory?

For anybody that doesn't know “the ideal observer theory’ was first espoused by the philosopher Adam Smith and it's been said that people like David Hume have been supporters of this theory. The "Ideal observer theory" puts forth the idea that what is right is determined by the attitudes that a hypothetical ideal observer would have. To break it down, the Ideal observer theory is the meta-ethical view which claims that ethical sentences express truth-apt propositions about the attitudes of a hypothetical ideal observer.
...
What makes this observer "ideal"? Does she possess a correct understanding of the goals of morality? Is she completely unbiased and objective? What are the qualities that one should have if one is to make decisions as to what is right and wrong?
She is exactly like you.....
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