The Acceptance of Lying In American Society

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Steve3007
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Re: The Acceptance of Lying In American Society

Post by Steve3007 »

Steve3007 wrote:What people really believe inside their own heads is impossible to say for sure.
baker wrote:For example: What do poor Trump voters most likely feel about Trump? It seems it's awe -- a combination of respect and fear. This explains why they don't expect anything from him nor ask him for anything as far as they are concerned. (If you feel awe for someone, you're not going to ask them for help, nor for mercy.) Awe also explains why they don't take issue with anything he says or does.
I was thinking more of the people who still have a vested interest in keeping on Trump's good side and stoking the fires of his fraud claims. Republican politicians with a majority to protect and lawyers with fees to collect, campaign money to raise and a controversial public image to nurture and leverage into a career as public speaker, presenter on pro-Trump news channels and other game shows. I think the lawyer Sidney Powell is an interesting example of this. It'll be interesting to see how her career progresses over the next month and beyond.

What voters feel probably varies widely. Most probably don't feel anything much one way or the other. For most people there are more important things in life than all this.
baker
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Re: The Acceptance of Lying In American Society

Post by baker »

Steve3007 wrote: December 23rd, 2020, 5:57 amMost probably don't feel anything much one way or the other. For most people there are more important things in life than all this.
And that's how high politicians can do whatever they want.

Which kind of answers the thread question: People tacitly accept lying because they think they have more important things to do in life.
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Re: The Acceptance of Lying In American Society

Post by baker »

LuckyR wrote: December 23rd, 2020, 4:00 amThat's possible, though I believe that a substantial number of the Trump base figures that anyone who shares their views on social issues must be a good guy, and a good guy will look out for their interests financially.
I can see how this refers to tax cuts, subsidies, and such. How about welfare?
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Re: The Acceptance of Lying In American Society

Post by baker »

Greta wrote: December 22nd, 2020, 9:28 pmIf a society abandons harmony, cooperation, quality culture and relative equity, what is there to defend against? Why be vigilant for a society that abandons ethics, cooperation, decency and hopes to improve?
I'm afraid only Sauron has an answer to that.

Seriously, I don't know an answer to your question, other than https://i.pinimg.com/originals/17/35/1a ... 7bd956.jpg.
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Sy Borg
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Re: The Acceptance of Lying In American Society

Post by Sy Borg »

baker wrote: December 23rd, 2020, 9:35 am
Greta wrote: December 22nd, 2020, 9:28 pmIf a society abandons harmony, cooperation, quality culture and relative equity, what is there to defend against? Why be vigilant for a society that abandons ethics, cooperation, decency and hopes to improve?
I'm afraid only Sauron has an answer to that.

Seriously, I don't know an answer to your question, other than https://i.pinimg.com/originals/17/35/1a ... 7bd956.jpg.
:lol:

The biggest problem is that, as some of our western societies gradually (and in at least one case, quickly) self-destruct, the only candidates for a takeover are China and Russia, each a grossly unethical society - the former being a cult-of-personality dictatorship and the latter a kleptocracy.
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Re: The Acceptance of Lying In American Society

Post by LuckyR »

baker wrote: December 23rd, 2020, 9:00 am
LuckyR wrote: December 23rd, 2020, 4:00 amThat's possible, though I believe that a substantial number of the Trump base figures that anyone who shares their views on social issues must be a good guy, and a good guy will look out for their interests financially.
I can see how this refers to tax cuts, subsidies, and such. How about welfare?
Folks who don't need or think they won't need welfare think it is for deadbeat losers, thus they hate it.
"As usual... it depends."
baker
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Re: The Acceptance of Lying In American Society

Post by baker »

Greta wrote: December 23rd, 2020, 7:44 pmThe biggest problem is that, as some of our western societies gradually (and in at least one case, quickly) self-destruct, the only candidates for a takeover are China and Russia, each a grossly unethical society - the former being a cult-of-personality dictatorship and the latter a kleptocracy.
The time of the Elves is over ...
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Pattern-chaser
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Re: The Acceptance of Lying In American Society

Post by Pattern-chaser »

Greta wrote: December 23rd, 2020, 7:44 pm ...the only candidates for a takeover are China and Russia, each a grossly unethical society - the former being a cult-of-personality dictatorship and the latter a kleptocracy.
I'm afraid you missed some out, the most obvious being the USA, the country that ordinary people throughout the world name as the most dangerous and threatening country of all. There are plenty of other candidates too.
Pattern-chaser

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Sy Borg
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Re: The Acceptance of Lying In American Society

Post by Sy Borg »

PC, I classify the US as a western nation that is self-destructing, not a candidate to take over from itself as world leader. I can understand the confusion, as it has not behaved like a western nation for the last four years.

Baker, the name of Sauron's equivalent is Vladimir J. Xi :)
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Re: The Acceptance of Lying In American Society

Post by popeye1945 »

"He who controls the past, controls the future, and he who controls the present controls the past."

How much of your countries history has been stolen from you. Every citizen needs ask this question of their government.
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Count Lucanor
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Re: The Acceptance of Lying In American Society

Post by Count Lucanor »

impermanence wrote: December 5th, 2020, 12:49 pm For those who have been among the living over the past half century, there appears to be a substantial increase in the level of purposeful deception that has become perfectly acceptable in contemporary American society. It seemed to have started in the advertising and PR fields in the 60's [with their ever-expanding need to stretch the truth] and quickly metastasized.
There's no empirical base for this. As far as we can get with speculations, I would say deception is found in every human society.

The deceitful practices of advertising and PR weren't invented in the 60s. Haven't you ever heard of Edward Bernays?
The wise are instructed by reason, average minds by experience, the stupid by necessity and the brute by instinct.
― Marcus Tullius Cicero
impermanence
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Re: The Acceptance of Lying In American Society

Post by impermanence »

Count Lucanor wrote: December 25th, 2020, 1:04 pm
impermanence wrote: December 5th, 2020, 12:49 pm For those who have been among the living over the past half century, there appears to be a substantial increase in the level of purposeful deception that has become perfectly acceptable in contemporary American society. It seemed to have started in the advertising and PR fields in the 60's [with their ever-expanding need to stretch the truth] and quickly metastasized.
There's no empirical base for this. As far as we can get with speculations, I would say deception is found in every human society.

The deceitful practices of advertising and PR weren't invented in the 60s. Haven't you ever heard of Edward Bernays?
I was suggesting that, "there appears to be a substantial increase in the level of purposeful deception...," starting in the 60's.

Wasn't he the French guy who came up with the really popular sauce people like to put on their roast beef?
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Count Lucanor
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Re: The Acceptance of Lying In American Society

Post by Count Lucanor »

impermanence wrote: December 25th, 2020, 2:33 pm I was suggesting that, "there appears to be a substantial increase in the level of purposeful deception...," starting in the 60's.
Just the same. What's the empirical support for "there appears to be"? Or is it just a feeling that you have?
The wise are instructed by reason, average minds by experience, the stupid by necessity and the brute by instinct.
― Marcus Tullius Cicero
impermanence
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Re: The Acceptance of Lying In American Society

Post by impermanence »

Count Lucanor wrote: December 25th, 2020, 6:08 pm
impermanence wrote: December 25th, 2020, 2:33 pm I was suggesting that, "there appears to be a substantial increase in the level of purposeful deception...," starting in the 60's.
Just the same. What's the empirical support for "there appears to be"? Or is it just a feeling that you have?
Only my opinion, and I am not sure how one might quantify such a thing, but when you look at American culture of say the 50's v. the 70's, the 60's seem to be the transition decade [for all kinds of things].
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Count Lucanor
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Re: The Acceptance of Lying In American Society

Post by Count Lucanor »

impermanence wrote: December 25th, 2020, 8:20 pm
Count Lucanor wrote: December 25th, 2020, 6:08 pm
Just the same. What's the empirical support for "there appears to be"? Or is it just a feeling that you have?
Only my opinion, and I am not sure how one might quantify such a thing, but when you look at American culture of say the 50's v. the 70's, the 60's seem to be the transition decade [for all kinds of things].
You do realize that your casual opinion is influenced by how the media portrays the public sphere? So, your belief can be the result of deception, too. Ironically, to say that public life is portrayed more accurately these days, supposedly allowing us to know better, goes against the narrative that lying prevails.
The wise are instructed by reason, average minds by experience, the stupid by necessity and the brute by instinct.
― Marcus Tullius Cicero
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