The ethics of flogging a dead horse

[Steve3007]

(We're aware that Sy Borg is Greta and Greta is Australian, right?)

[Pattern-chaser]

The general principle is about the honesty with which the origins of meat products are displayed - neatly wrapped in clingfilm versus hanging upside-down, dead-eyed, from a blood-stained hook.

Exactly. I only offered a factual observation from my own childhood to refute an incorrect statement. And while the historic display of corpses might upset some of us, it is at least honest, while the sanitised cling-filmed packages probably aren't. I suppose the question should be what does this say about us?

(We're aware that Sy Borg is Greta and Greta is Australian, right?)

I am now. For future clarity, I will be sticking with the name I have used on the internet since before the www was invented.

[Steve3007]

I am now. For future clarity, I will be sticking with the name I have used on the internet since before the www was invented.

. Well, I can proudly say that I have little or no imagination and my name here is Steve because, as you know, that's (approximately) the label that my silver haired mother slapped on me at birth.

I suppose the question should be what does this say about us?

I guess if we're trying to be deep and philosophical we could conclude that what it says is that we have a tendency to cope with life by compartmentalizing. Meat wrapped in clingfilm is perhaps just another instance of reductionism.

[Pattern-chaser]

I suppose the question should be what does this say about us?

I guess if we're trying to be deep and philosophical we could conclude that what it says is that we have a tendency to cope with life by compartmentalizing. Meat wrapped in clingfilm is perhaps just another instance of reductionism.

Reductionism? It looks to me a lot like self-deception. When we're ashamed of doing something, we invent stories to show how it's OK really, and we aren't the barbarians we appear to be. It's a belief that barbarians cultivate, I suspect.

[Steve3007]

Reductionism? It looks to me a lot like self-deception. When we're ashamed of doing something, we invent stories to show how it's OK really, and we aren't the barbarians we appear to be. It's a belief that barbarians cultivate, I suspect.

Maybe in this context that self-deception is a form of reductionism. After all, reductionism is about breaking the world into manageable chunks and dealing with those chunks separately so as not to be overwhelmed by having to do deal with too many issues at once - the management of complexity. Maybe pretending to ourselves that we don't know the origins of the meat products we're eating serves a similar purpose. Just a thought.

[Pattern-chaser]

Reductionism? It looks to me a lot like self-deception. When we're ashamed of doing something, we invent stories to show how it's OK really, and we aren't the barbarians we appear to be. It's a belief that barbarians cultivate, I suspect.

Maybe in this context that self-deception is a form of reductionism. After all, reductionism is about breaking the world into manageable chunks and dealing with those chunks separately so as not to be overwhelmed by having to do deal with too many issues at once - the management of complexity. Maybe pretending to ourselves that we don't know the origins of the meat products we're eating serves a similar purpose. Just a thought.

But don't we employ reductionism to help us in the process of seeking understanding? Cling-filmed meat is surely an attempt to avoid understanding, and avoiding any appreciation of what it is we're actually doing? In that sense, it's the opposite of reductionism, isn't it?

[LuckyR]

But which is better: pretending to not be a beast, or embracing one's beastliness?

Well the latter is at least honest, and isn't honesty "better" than pretence?

Exactly, thus why the OP's behavior should not be criticized too harshly.

[Pattern-chaser]

But which is better: pretending to not be a beast, or embracing one's beastliness?

Well the latter is at least honest, and isn't honesty "better" than pretence?

Exactly, thus why the OP's behavior should not be criticized too harshly.

The OP's behaviour? Do you mean the behaviour of the horse trainer, or...?

[Sy Borg]

But does "respect" lie in internal attitudes or externally viewed behaviors?

The external is evidence of the inner.

Not sure why a dig at China is apposite here. I've seen pheasants offered for sale in the UK stung by the neck, though you do not see that so much these days.

Not a dig, just an observation. It's extremely important at this fraught time to tell the difference. It was a harmless observation that, back in the day, it was only ever Chinese food shops that hung ducks up in that way. I don't see that much any more but it used to be pretty common - but only in Chinese food shops.

I disagree. In the UK, "back in the day" when I was a lad, butchers and game merchants displayed their wares in exactly that way, as Sculptor1 describes.

That's in the UK. I do not live in the UK, though, I live in Australia. I never even once saw ducks hanging in that way in a non-Chinese shop. Not once. It was never a common practice here anyway but, when it was done, it was *always* a Chinese food shop.

You are being over-sensitive IMO. It's not a criticism, it's an observation. If anything, it's more upfront, drawing a closer connection between dead animals and our meals.

[LuckyR]

But which is better: pretending to not be a beast, or embracing one's beastliness?

Well the latter is at least honest, and isn't honesty "better" than pretence?

Exactly, thus why the OP's behavior should not be criticized too harshly.

The OP's behaviour? Do you mean the behaviour of the horse trainer, or...?

The behaviour displayed in the OP. He embraced his beastliness, rather than pretending to not be a beast.

[Pattern-chaser]

He embraced his beastliness, rather than pretending to not be a beast.

I wonder if he embraced his humanity, not his "beastliness"?

[Pattern-chaser]

You are being over-sensitive IMO.

Over-sensitive how? I wasn't even participating in the discussion, only offering a first-hand witness observation that complemented your own.

[Sy Borg]

You are being over-sensitive IMO.

Over-sensitive how?

By referring to a clearly harmless observation as a dig. Whatever.

[Pattern-chaser]

You are being over-sensitive IMO.

Over-sensitive how?

By referring to a clearly harmless observation as a dig. Whatever.

Wasn't the 'dig' from Sculptor?

[Steve3007]

Sculptor has studied archaeology (I know from past conversations) so that would be appropriate.