Work

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LuckyR
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Re: Work

Post by LuckyR »

Sculptor1 wrote: March 13th, 2021, 10:20 am
LuckyR wrote: March 12th, 2021, 7:56 pm
Sculptor1 wrote: March 12th, 2021, 1:17 pm
LuckyR wrote: March 12th, 2021, 12:45 pm

Well, you are implying that the social safety net in your area makes employment voluntary ie optional. Congrats. That is one of the "choices" you are referring to, right?
Starvation and poverty is also a choice in this respect.
So employment isn't voluntary for the (substantial) subset of humans who happen to want to live (not die from starvation), right?
Yes, life is also voluntary.
Rising up against the system is also a choice. Or accepting the system and allowing yourself to become a cog in the machine that destroys the earth is also a choice.

Most people take the easy way out and pretend that they are not destroying the earth, and fail to take responsibility for playing their part.
Your assessment of "most people" is, of course correct. My point is that "most people" have fewer options than your declarations imply and thus have less responsibility as "their part" is limited.
"As usual... it depends."
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Sculptor1
Posts: 7091
Joined: May 16th, 2019, 5:35 am

Re: Work

Post by Sculptor1 »

LuckyR wrote: March 14th, 2021, 3:12 am
Sculptor1 wrote: March 13th, 2021, 10:20 am
LuckyR wrote: March 12th, 2021, 7:56 pm
Sculptor1 wrote: March 12th, 2021, 1:17 pm

Starvation and poverty is also a choice in this respect.
So employment isn't voluntary for the (substantial) subset of humans who happen to want to live (not die from starvation), right?
Yes, life is also voluntary.
Rising up against the system is also a choice. Or accepting the system and allowing yourself to become a cog in the machine that destroys the earth is also a choice.

Most people take the easy way out and pretend that they are not destroying the earth, and fail to take responsibility for playing their part.
Your assessment of "most people" is, of course correct. My point is that "most people" have fewer options than your declarations imply and thus have less responsibility as "their part" is limited.
No.
No ones choice is "limited", though consequences can be undesirable.
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LuckyR
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Re: Work

Post by LuckyR »

Sculptor1 wrote: March 14th, 2021, 11:38 am
LuckyR wrote: March 14th, 2021, 3:12 am
Sculptor1 wrote: March 13th, 2021, 10:20 am
LuckyR wrote: March 12th, 2021, 7:56 pm

So employment isn't voluntary for the (substantial) subset of humans who happen to want to live (not die from starvation), right?
Yes, life is also voluntary.
Rising up against the system is also a choice. Or accepting the system and allowing yourself to become a cog in the machine that destroys the earth is also a choice.

Most people take the easy way out and pretend that they are not destroying the earth, and fail to take responsibility for playing their part.
Your assessment of "most people" is, of course correct. My point is that "most people" have fewer options than your declarations imply and thus have less responsibility as "their part" is limited.
No.
No ones choice is "limited", though consequences can be undesirable.
Really? So, inner city slum youth have the same options as the 1%? No, a "choice" among bad options is not a valid choice, especially when viewed from a relative perspective, since others have true choices running the gamut from excellent, through good down to neutral, then bad and terrible.
"As usual... it depends."
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Sculptor1
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Joined: May 16th, 2019, 5:35 am

Re: Work

Post by Sculptor1 »

LuckyR wrote: March 14th, 2021, 12:30 pm
Sculptor1 wrote: March 14th, 2021, 11:38 am
LuckyR wrote: March 14th, 2021, 3:12 am
Sculptor1 wrote: March 13th, 2021, 10:20 am

Yes, life is also voluntary.
Rising up against the system is also a choice. Or accepting the system and allowing yourself to become a cog in the machine that destroys the earth is also a choice.

Most people take the easy way out and pretend that they are not destroying the earth, and fail to take responsibility for playing their part.
Your assessment of "most people" is, of course correct. My point is that "most people" have fewer options than your declarations imply and thus have less responsibility as "their part" is limited.
No.
No ones choice is "limited", though consequences can be undesirable.
Really? So, inner city slum youth have the same options as the 1%?
strawman
No, a "choice" among bad options is not a valid choice, especially when viewed from a relative perspective, since others have true choices running the gamut from excellent, through good down to neutral, then bad and terrible.
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LuckyR
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Joined: January 18th, 2015, 1:16 am

Re: Work

Post by LuckyR »

Sculptor1 wrote: March 14th, 2021, 1:28 pm
LuckyR wrote: March 14th, 2021, 12:30 pm
Sculptor1 wrote: March 14th, 2021, 11:38 am
LuckyR wrote: March 14th, 2021, 3:12 am

Your assessment of "most people" is, of course correct. My point is that "most people" have fewer options than your declarations imply and thus have less responsibility as "their part" is limited.
No.
No ones choice is "limited", though consequences can be undesirable.
Really? So, inner city slum youth have the same options as the 1%?
strawman
No, a "choice" among bad options is not a valid choice, especially when viewed from a relative perspective, since others have true choices running the gamut from excellent, through good down to neutral, then bad and terrible.
Fair game when responding to the claim of: "No one's (sic) choice is limited", though if you can't appreciate that, go ahead and delete that sentence and address the rest.
"As usual... it depends."
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Sculptor1
Posts: 7091
Joined: May 16th, 2019, 5:35 am

Re: Work

Post by Sculptor1 »

LuckyR wrote: March 14th, 2021, 3:42 pm
Sculptor1 wrote: March 14th, 2021, 1:28 pm
LuckyR wrote: March 14th, 2021, 12:30 pm
Sculptor1 wrote: March 14th, 2021, 11:38 am
No.
No ones choice is "limited", though consequences can be undesirable.
Really? So, inner city slum youth have the same options as the 1%?
strawman
No, a "choice" among bad options is not a valid choice, especially when viewed from a relative perspective, since others have true choices running the gamut from excellent, through good down to neutral, then bad and terrible.
Fair game when responding to the claim of: "No one's (sic) choice is limited", though if you can't appreciate that, go ahead and delete that sentence and address the rest.
It's pointless trading platitudes.
The fact is there is always some other choice.
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LuckyR
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Posts: 7932
Joined: January 18th, 2015, 1:16 am

Re: Work

Post by LuckyR »

Sculptor1 wrote: March 15th, 2021, 9:20 am
LuckyR wrote: March 14th, 2021, 3:42 pm
Sculptor1 wrote: March 14th, 2021, 1:28 pm
LuckyR wrote: March 14th, 2021, 12:30 pm

Really? So, inner city slum youth have the same options as the 1%?
strawman
No, a "choice" among bad options is not a valid choice, especially when viewed from a relative perspective, since others have true choices running the gamut from excellent, through good down to neutral, then bad and terrible.
Fair game when responding to the claim of: "No one's (sic) choice is limited", though if you can't appreciate that, go ahead and delete that sentence and address the rest.
It's pointless trading platitudes.
The fact is there is always some other choice.
Of course we all agree there. Sounds like you acknowledge these options vary among folks of different means. Nothing controversial. All I'm pointing out is that these varying choices lead to varying responsibilities when judging people's selections. Pretty elementary stuff.
"As usual... it depends."
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RexArthur
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Posts: 9
Joined: March 19th, 2021, 9:28 pm

Re: Work

Post by RexArthur »

If you have family and family is top priority, you work. If you need to burn trees in the Amazon Rainforest to make charcoal to sell to feed your family, you do it. If your priority is trees instead of family, act kindly and change the necessity for this individual with a family.
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LuckyR
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Posts: 7932
Joined: January 18th, 2015, 1:16 am

Re: Work

Post by LuckyR »

RexArthur wrote: March 20th, 2021, 9:12 am If you have family and family is top priority, you work. If you need to burn trees in the Amazon Rainforest to make charcoal to sell to feed your family, you do it. If your priority is trees instead of family, act kindly and change the necessity for this individual with a family.
Good point, it is easy to kibitz from the sidelines on issues that others have to live with.
"As usual... it depends."
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