The question that drives me crazy

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Belindi
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Re: The question that drives me crazy

Post by Belindi »

Tegularius wrote: March 15th, 2021, 5:02 pm
Belindi wrote: March 15th, 2021, 5:03 am
Tegularius wrote: March 14th, 2021, 5:12 pm
Belindi wrote: March 14th, 2021, 9:16 am
I agree; however that is not the end of the story.
Despite the prevalence of miscreants there are some who turn out to be good people. Based on our deplorable genetic inheritances from bacteria and suchlike as we undoubtedly are, we also know it is possible raising mankind 'above' miscreation can be achieved.
True insofar an improbability does not confirm an impossibility.
Especially in the case of sapiens who because he learns from previous experience has many possibilities.
If only that were true! By the time they learn the damage is already done. Think of the climate fiascos happening and getting worse which we've been warned about since 1960s and 70s. The world isn't getting any better. Don't know whether you noticed that or not.
I must suppose proper statisticians have less conformation bias towards selection of stats than do I.
Yes, I noticed , and am as healthily pessimistic as I should be regarding environmental degradation.
Despite the many horrid causes for pessimism , and despite that these will hasten the demise of most of the biosphere, it is a statistical fact that some individual sapiens have not been generally foolish but have adhered to the universalistic ethic. It is unlikely that there exists an omniscient Being Who will remember the names of those, however they did and do exist and as long as there is civilisation we do well to remember and try to emulate them.

By "the universalisitic ethic" I mean more than simply putting others before self; I mean consideration of all the factors that are conducive to continuation of the biosphere as a whole in a state of maximum health and well being.

Obviously we cannot know which of the many moral systems and moral details
always lead to the health of the whole biosphere, but in out time we know for instance that we must i.e. we ought to stop wasting plastics and fossil fuels.

In view of the health of the biosphere it is our moral duty to know as much as we can of technologies and science. Deliberate ignorance is immoral as is failing to teach others especially children about what tends to life and what tends to death.
Tegularius
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Re: The question that drives me crazy

Post by Tegularius »

Belindi wrote: March 16th, 2021, 6:05 amDespite the many horrid causes for pessimism , and despite that these will hasten the demise of most of the biosphere, it is a statistical fact that some individual sapiens have not been generally foolish but have adhered to the universalistic ethic.
The world would be inconceivable if that weren't true. Of course there are always those who, as you say, conform to the universalistic ethic. Unfortunately it is not usually these types who are in charge. Worse still, even if one such individual were to work for a company that has no such ethic, which is true for nearly all of them, it is their way or the highway.
Belindi wrote: March 16th, 2021, 6:05 amObviously we cannot know which of the many moral systems and moral details always lead to the health of the whole biosphere, but in out time we know for instance that we must i.e. we ought to stop wasting plastics and fossil fuels.
Morality has very little to do with our effect on the biosphere. Morality has always been a subjective encounter in our judgements of right and wrong, good & evil, as determined individually or societally. What is happening now is an objective fact guaranteed to make life miserable for most of the world's population. I can't recall where I read it, it was so very long ago, but it was so unexpected I never forgot it. Evidently Hitler planned to rebuild the bombed cities of Germany as much as possible at the time on a pollution free bases.
Belindi wrote: March 16th, 2021, 6:05 amIn view of the health of the biosphere it is our moral duty to know as much as we can of technologies and science
We know enough now that even if we stopped polluting immediately the damage that's already done will continue to fester for a very long time to come. Putting a band-aid on a septic wound isn't going to make it go away. We always think of nature as time-retarded compared to the speed of human endeavors. But now it seems nature is on the fast track of causing deadly changes while we still idealistically proclaim our own solutions thirty, forty and fifty years from now. If you subtract the hypocrisy of it, at its core, in pure naked simplicity lies the motive of procrastination.
The earth has a skin and that skin has diseases; one of its diseases is called man ... Nietzsche
Belindi
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Re: The question that drives me crazy

Post by Belindi »

Tegularius wrote: March 17th, 2021, 11:40 pm
Belindi wrote: March 16th, 2021, 6:05 amDespite the many horrid causes for pessimism , and despite that these will hasten the demise of most of the biosphere, it is a statistical fact that some individual sapiens have not been generally foolish but have adhered to the universalistic ethic.
The world would be inconceivable if that weren't true. Of course there are always those who, as you say, conform to the universalistic ethic. Unfortunately it is not usually these types who are in charge. Worse still, even if one such individual were to work for a company that has no such ethic, which is true for nearly all of them, it is their way or the highway.
Belindi wrote: March 16th, 2021, 6:05 amObviously we cannot know which of the many moral systems and moral details always lead to the health of the whole biosphere, but in out time we know for instance that we must i.e. we ought to stop wasting plastics and fossil fuels.
Morality has very little to do with our effect on the biosphere. Morality has always been a subjective encounter in our judgements of right and wrong, good & evil, as determined individually or societally. What is happening now is an objective fact guaranteed to make life miserable for most of the world's population. I can't recall where I read it, it was so very long ago, but it was so unexpected I never forgot it. Evidently Hitler planned to rebuild the bombed cities of Germany as much as possible at the time on a pollution free bases.
Belindi wrote: March 16th, 2021, 6:05 amIn view of the health of the biosphere it is our moral duty to know as much as we can of technologies and science
We know enough now that even if we stopped polluting immediately the damage that's already done will continue to fester for a very long time to come. Putting a band-aid on a septic wound isn't going to make it go away. We always think of nature as time-retarded compared to the speed of human endeavors. But now it seems nature is on the fast track of causing deadly changes while we still idealistically proclaim our own solutions thirty, forty and fifty years from now. If you subtract the hypocrisy of it, at its core, in pure naked simplicity lies the motive of procrastination.
Your argument is all correct, especially with regard to environmental degradation, and the rule of economic growth and the profit motive among international corporations, if I may paraphrase what you wrote.

The persistence for thousands of future years of waste plastic is a serious pathological force against which there may be the possibility of some sort of bacteria that consume the stuff in the environment and on a large scale. Not even acute infectious plagues are as destructive of life as waste plastic which is wholly man made and has been know about for decades.

Politically there is light at the end of the tunnel which we see in popular protests, and in the work of politicians such as Gandhi, Mandela, and Martin Luther King Jnr.
We read novels ,see film plays and street theatre, and hear lyrics that proclaim the more life- affirming choices. Who would have guessed that a poor unknown man from a despised race would have become the icon of Black Lives Matter? Tegularius did not address the force of popular opinion against the hegemony of the wealthy elites.

In the absence of significant predictability is it best to keep working and living.
Haliaeetus
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Re: The question that drives me crazy

Post by Haliaeetus »

Imagine if a cosmic karmic force were to exist, and an entity carried out justice in the truest sense: not to simply punish evil, but enact complete restitution toward those in whom evil is inflicted.

Would you feel more consolation from the knowledge of perfect restitution for the afflicted, or from punishment toward the aggressors?
value
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Re: The question that drives me crazy

Post by value »

Tegularius wrote: March 12th, 2021, 6:38 am Everything you describe and worse, has happened countless times throughout history. Human nature is responsible for ALL the inhuman crimes of humanity and not just those perpetrated against each other. Man is at heart a monster needing only the right reasons to prove who he really is.
It depends on how you look at it. I recently listened to a podcast that said 'While humans can be the great destroyers of the planet, they can also be the saviours of the planet'.

There have been cults that drove people collectively to commit suicide. People are capable of a lot for a belief or idea. Beliefs and ideas can be wrong. Sound philosophical development might prevent errors so in my opinion a solution is to be sought in philosophy.

I have investigated the Nazi ideology as precursor to my study of GMO (eugenics on nature) and it was discovered that the true origin of the Holocaust was not hatred but an at that time developing status quo of the international scientific establishment that believed that the human mind is meaningless and causally 'originates' in the brain.

The ideal that arose was for humanity to self-control evolution (eugenics) which in practice at that time resulted in an attempt to kill off weak parts of humanity starting with psychiatric patients.

German psychiatry started killing psychiatric patients systematically countrywide using starvation diets 20 years before the Nazi party was founded. The following German book by a well known author provides an example:

Euthanasia by Starvation in Psychiatry 1914-1949
https://www.semanticscholar.org/paper/H ... 0ab29306d2

The idea behind eugenics – racial hygiene – that led to the Nazi Holocaust was supported by Universities around the world. It started with an idea that was not naturally defensible and that was thought to require trickery and deceit. It resulted in a demand for people with the capabilities of Nazis.

The famous German Holocaust scholar Ernst Klee has described the situation as follows:

“The Nazis didn't need psychiatry, it was the other way around, psychiatry needed the Nazis.”
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ernst_Klee

The Holocaust started with the killing of 300.000 psychiatric patients and the starvation practice that was later discovered in the camps originated from psychiatry.

The Holocaust was performed by people that believed that what they were doing was 'good' and the justification for their idea of 'good' originated from the international scientific establishment of that time.

The German extermination program originally had a scientifically acceptable basis and was supported by Universities around the world, including in England and USA. The USA started with mass sterilization programs for psychiatric patients based on the same eugenic ideas and similar programs have also taken place in several European countries.

In 2014, New York Times journalist Eric Lichtblau published the book The Nazis Next Door: How America Became a Safe Haven for Hitler's Men, which showed that more than 10,000 high-ranking Nazis emigrated to the United States after World War II. Their war crimes were quickly forgotten, and some received help and protection from the US government.

People weren't being a 'monster' or doing evil from their own perspective. They were fulfilling a honourable task for the status quo idea of 'good' of the scientific establishment at that time. A status quo that demanded barbaric practices as a 'necessary evil' to cleanse the human race from what was deemed a true evil for humanity's evolution and future. They were serving a 'greater good'.

The personal hatred of Hitler might be the reason that certain groups of people such as Jews were included in the originally psychiatric extermination program. While that might be considered pure evil so that the reasoning in the OP is still valid, in practice for people on the ground it might not have been easy oppose the propagated idea that the status quo of the scientific establishment - a greater good - was being served.

How could people in that dark time oppose a force such as an international scientific establishment?

Questioning the fundamental idea's of the Nazi ideology

The advertisement for the first eugenics congress shows a link with psychiatry or people who believed in it, which can help explain the origin.

Psychiatry is based on determinism (a belief that there is no free will) and the idea that mind originates in the brain causally. The flyer for the first eugenics congress shows how the brain causally explains mind.

Eugenics is the self direction of human evolution
Eugenics is the self direction of human evolution

The idea at the foundation of psychiatry, the idea that there is no more to life and the human mind than what can be shown to exist using empirical science (determinism), is the same idea that lays at the basis of eugenics. For a desire to 'stand above life' to arise, one has to be convinced that life is meaningless.

What is the meaning of life?” is a question that has driven many to atrocities, against themselves and against others. In a wicked attempt to overcome the 'weakness' resulting from the inability to answer the question, some believe that they should live with a gun under their nose.

An often cited quote from Nazi Hermann Göring: “When I hear the word culture, I unlock my gun!”

It is easy to argue that life has no meaning because empirical evidence is impossible.

In science the inability to define the meaning of life has resulted in an ideal to abolish morality.

(2018) Immoral advances: Is science out of control?
To many scientists, moral objections to their work are not valid: science, by definition, is morally neutral, so any moral judgement on it simply reflects scientific illiteracy.
https://www.newscientist.com/article/mg ... f-control/

Morality is based on 'values' and that logically means that science also wants to get rid of philosophy.

Philosopher Friedrich Nietzsche (1844-1900) in Beyond Good and Evil (Chapter 6 – We Scholars) shared the following perspective on the evolution of science in relation to philosophy.

The declaration of independence of the scientific man, his emancipation from philosophy, is one of the subtler after-effects of democratic organization and disorganization: the self- glorification and self-conceitedness of the learned man is now everywhere in full bloom, and in its best springtime – which does not mean to imply that in this case self-praise smells sweet. Here also the instinct of the populace cries, “Freedom from all masters!” and after science has, with the happiest results, resisted theology, whose “hand-maid” it had been too long, it now proposes in its wantonness and indiscretion to lay down laws for philosophy, and in its turn to play the “master” – what am I saying! to play the PHILOSOPHER on its own account.

It shows the path that science has pursued since as early as 1850. Science has intended to rid itself of philosophy, which includes morality.

When science is practised autonomously and intends to get rid of any influence of philosophy, the 'knowing' of a scientific fact necessarily entails certainty. Without certainty, philosophy would be essential, and that would be obvious to any scientist, which it is not.

It means that there is a dogmatic belief involved (a belief in uniformitarianism) that legitimises autonomous application of science without thinking about whether it is actually 'good' what is being done (i.e. without morality).

The idea that the facts of science are valid without philosophy results in the natural tendency to completely abolish morality.

This might explain why in that dark time before the Holocaust morality was stand to lose ground in the face of an international scientific establishment that was reaching its heights.

The root of the problem that led to the Nazi holocaust and barbaric (immoral) practices therefore has been the preceding evolution of science that resulted in the suppression of philosophy and morality.

There are indications that the eugenics ideal is wrong.

With eugenics, one is moving 'towards an ultimate state' as perceived from an external viewer (the human). That may be opposite of what is considered healthy in Nature that seeks diversity for resilience and strength.

A quote by a philosopher in a discussion about eugenics:
blond hair and blue eyes for everyone

utopia

-Imp
Eugenics resides on the essence of inbreeding of which it is known that it causes fatal problems in evolution. Evidence is the fact that cows in the USA are being driven to extinction through eugenics.

(2021) The way we breed cows is setting them up for extinction
Chad Dechow – an associate professor of dairy cattle genetics – and others say there is so much genetic similarity among them, the effective population size is less than 50. If cows were wild animals, that would put them in the category of critically endangered species.
https://qz.com/1649587/the-way-we-breed ... xtinction/

While there are 9 million cows in the USA, from a genetic perspective, there are just 50 cows alive due to the nature of eugenics that resides on the essence of inbreeding.

“It's pretty much one big inbred family,” says Leslie B. Hansen, a cow expert and professor at the University of Minnesota. Fertility rates are affected by inbreeding, and already, cow fertility has dropped significantly. Also, when close relatives are bred, serious health problems could be lurking.

Overcoming problems is essential for progress in life. Some perceived defects may be part of a 300 year evolutionary strategy that is essential to acquire solutions for longer term survival. The fight to overcome the defects or diseases makes a life form stronger in the future. Filtering out genes (eugenics) would be like fleeing instead of overcoming problems and thus logically results in increased weakness over time.

An easy life or offspring with genes linked to social prosperity (financial, career, etc) may not be what is good for longer term evolution.

My conclusion after my study of eugenics and GMO is that it may be best to serve life instead of trying to stand above it. People like Stephen Hawkings with a hereditary disease can prove of exceptional value to humanity.

The following logic shows what I mean:

“An attempt to stand above life, as being life, logically results in a figurative stone that sinks in the ocean of time.”

The principle of eugenics resides on the essence of inbreeding of which it is known that it causes fatal problems.
value
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Re: The question that drives me crazy

Post by value »

GrayArea wrote: March 16th, 2021, 12:24 am I have the answer to your question. The ultimate truth of life is that there is ultimately no right or wrong; it is evident to me that the wisest thing to do in this world is to simply do what is allowed by the world, allowed by you. There isn't any other set answer because the universe does not have any standards. And the best part is that you can still strive for good and not go down the path of wretchedness as long as you allow yourself to be.
And how would it be explained that in a situation such as you describe, people can still 'strive for good'? Does it insinuate a magical '🧭 moral compass' or a sixth sense idea of 'good'?
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Re: The question that drives me crazy

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SneakySniper179 wrote: March 11th, 2021, 7:59 pm My hatred knows no bounds to these people. Knowing that has hurt me more than anything .
You are right, your hatred and anger can only harm you; because you are powerless to do anything.

A genocide happens every year, around nine million people die from hunger and hunger related diseases every year. We allow this to happen, we don't seem to turn our anger towards solutions we can contribute towards. You don't have to torture or kill anyone, just help in some small way.
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Re: The question that drives me crazy

Post by Belindi »

EricPH wrote: August 24th, 2022, 5:50 am
SneakySniper179 wrote: March 11th, 2021, 7:59 pm My hatred knows no bounds to these people. Knowing that has hurt me more than anything .
You are right, your hatred and anger can only harm you; because you are powerless to do anything.

A genocide happens every year, around nine million people die from hunger and hunger related diseases every year. We allow this to happen, we don't seem to turn our anger towards solutions we can contribute towards. You don't have to torture or kill anyone, just help in some small way.
Sometimes bad people are killed by good people, and that killing is justified by its being the only way to stop bad people doing what they are doing.

For instance, think of the situation when bad people take hostages.
I don't remember what made Sneaky angry, but I'd rather he was angry than apathetic. Without sympathy, principles, and the emotion of fear/anger we would be machines.
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Re: The question that drives me crazy

Post by GrayArea »

value wrote: August 24th, 2022, 4:50 am
GrayArea wrote: March 16th, 2021, 12:24 am I have the answer to your question. The ultimate truth of life is that there is ultimately no right or wrong; it is evident to me that the wisest thing to do in this world is to simply do what is allowed by the world, allowed by you. There isn't any other set answer because the universe does not have any standards. And the best part is that you can still strive for good and not go down the path of wretchedness as long as you allow yourself to be.
And how would it be explained that in a situation such as you describe, people can still 'strive for good'? Does it insinuate a magical '🧭 moral compass' or a sixth sense idea of 'good'?
It is true that there are certain values and actions more desirable/approvable than the other, and we call that "good". I believe I worded myself wrong in that above post, or perhaps my viewpoints were changed ever since I made that reply.

I would rather say that while good and evil does exist in our viewpoints, ultimately, the Universe doesn't care. The Universe has no disapprovals. It allows everything. It's only ourselves that gets to care about "What should happen" or "What shouldn't happen" in the end.

Now the next question is: Are we ourselves before being a part of the Universe, or vice versa? My answer is that we're both of them at the same time—no before, no after.

To be ourselves is to be the part of the Universe, and to be the part of the Universe is to be ourselves.

Because we need both aspects of ourselves(Us as ourselves, and us as an existing entity within the universe) at the same time in order to exist. It's only logical in my opinion. It is my belief that the subjective and the objective are connected and equally significant to the nature of being, after all.
People perceive gray and argue about whether it's black or white.
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Re: The question that drives me crazy

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SneakySniper179 wrote: March 11th, 2021, 7:59 pm I remember going to the holocaust museum and seeing all the shoes stacked up and knowing all the bodies that occupied them. The teeth, The clothes the other valuables worth nothing to the dead. All of those things that represented a life stacked up in a pile. I read one day that josef mengele died on a beautiful beach in south america. The **** injustice of that sentiment drives me nuts.

I suffer for nothing and a man who killed people in terrible ways dies looking at a brazilian beach and just passes on. The people he killed screamed and begged and got nothing, Just nothing. They were just experiments to him, Nothing more, nothing less. And this pos gets to die in one of the most beautiful places in the world.

The injustice of that statement drives me nuts because if there isn't a hell there very well should be. Not for just anyone but for him, He deserves it more than anyone and he got to die in the best way you can die. Looking at one of the most beautiful scenes you can see in your life and he just slipped away while others begged for mercy. without the idea of hell for some people I would go totally nuts. Nothing would ever matter.

It's sickens me and I have to hope he went to sleep on a beautiful beach and woke up in a lake of fire because if not there is no point to this place. Why would I even **** try. How **** is that injustice to the people he hurt. They died on an operating table and he died content looking at pure beauty. The most beautiful things he died and that was the last thing on this earth he ever saw.

Why the **** would I subscribe to morality. There would be no reason, Nothing at all. What would really be the point. The good get **** and the bad get to die on in beauty. How absolutely **** up is that.

If you don't see what I see you are a broken person in this regard. My hatred knows no bounds to these people. Knowing that has hurt me more than anything and I hope with all my heart he is in hell burning.
The holocaust museum thrives on this sort of emotion to make the death of Jews special and exceptional.
As sad as it is, their demise was not exceptional.
Not far from that same beach where Mengele was supposed to have died marks the death of millions of native "indians" cut down by Portuguese & Spanish swords and muskets, and diseases. Their cultures trashed by the black beasts of Catholic Christianity.
Nearer to Germany are the German victims of the same war, and not so far away an entire nation traumatised by the was losing 22millions of their number Russia.
Meanwhile good old Churchill stole grain from Britain's Indian colonies causing mass famine killing as much as THREE MILLION people.
Where is their memorial?
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Re: The question that drives me crazy

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SneakySniper179 wrote: March 11th, 2021, 7:59 pm I remember going to the holocaust museum and seeing all the shoes stacked up and knowing all the bodies that occupied them. The teeth, The clothes the other valuables worth nothing to the dead. All of those things that represented a life stacked up in a pile. I read one day that josef mengele died on a beautiful beach in south america. The **** injustice of that sentiment drives me nuts.

I suffer for nothing and a man who killed people in terrible ways dies looking at a brazilian beach and just passes on. The people he killed screamed and begged and got nothing, Just nothing. They were just experiments to him, Nothing more, nothing less. And this pos gets to die in one of the most beautiful places in the world.

The injustice of that statement drives me nuts because if there isn't a hell there very well should be. Not for just anyone but for him, He deserves it more than anyone and he got to die in the best way you can die. Looking at one of the most beautiful scenes you can see in your life and he just slipped away while others begged for mercy. without the idea of hell for some people I would go totally nuts. Nothing would ever matter.

It's sickens me and I have to hope he went to sleep on a beautiful beach and woke up in a lake of fire because if not there is no point to this place. Why would I even **** try. How **** is that injustice to the people he hurt. They died on an operating table and he died content looking at pure beauty. The most beautiful things he died and that was the last thing on this earth he ever saw.

Why the **** would I subscribe to morality. There would be no reason, Nothing at all. What would really be the point. The good get **** and the bad get to die on in beauty. How absolutely **** up is that.

If you don't see what I see you are a broken person in this regard. My hatred knows no bounds to these people. Knowing that has hurt me more than anything and I hope with all my heart he is in hell burning.
Good people do not commit good deeds for the sake of self-preservation. Not all evil can overcome the ones that good people help, as much as they are devoured by evil. It's an endless struggle. I hope you didn't give up.
People perceive gray and argue about whether it's black or white.
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Re: The question that drives me crazy

Post by Belindi »

Sculptor1 wrote: August 24th, 2022, 7:25 am
SneakySniper179 wrote: March 11th, 2021, 7:59 pm I remember going to the holocaust museum and seeing all the shoes stacked up and knowing all the bodies that occupied them. The teeth, The clothes the other valuables worth nothing to the dead. All of those things that represented a life stacked up in a pile. I read one day that josef mengele died on a beautiful beach in south america. The **** injustice of that sentiment drives me nuts.

I suffer for nothing and a man who killed people in terrible ways dies looking at a brazilian beach and just passes on. The people he killed screamed and begged and got nothing, Just nothing. They were just experiments to him, Nothing more, nothing less. And this pos gets to die in one of the most beautiful places in the world.

The injustice of that statement drives me nuts because if there isn't a hell there very well should be. Not for just anyone but for him, He deserves it more than anyone and he got to die in the best way you can die. Looking at one of the most beautiful scenes you can see in your life and he just slipped away while others begged for mercy. without the idea of hell for some people I would go totally nuts. Nothing would ever matter.

It's sickens me and I have to hope he went to sleep on a beautiful beach and woke up in a lake of fire because if not there is no point to this place. Why would I even **** try. How **** is that injustice to the people he hurt. They died on an operating table and he died content looking at pure beauty. The most beautiful things he died and that was the last thing on this earth he ever saw.

Why the **** would I subscribe to morality. There would be no reason, Nothing at all. What would really be the point. The good get **** and the bad get to die on in beauty. How absolutely **** up is that.

If you don't see what I see you are a broken person in this regard. My hatred knows no bounds to these people. Knowing that has hurt me more than anything and I hope with all my heart he is in hell burning.
The holocaust museum thrives on this sort of emotion to make the death of Jews special and exceptional.
As sad as it is, their demise was not exceptional.
Not far from that same beach where Mengele was supposed to have died marks the death of millions of native "indians" cut down by Portuguese & Spanish swords and muskets, and diseases. Their cultures trashed by the black beasts of Catholic Christianity.
Nearer to Germany are the German victims of the same war, and not so far away an entire nation traumatised by the was losing 22millions of their number Russia.
Meanwhile good old Churchill stole grain from Britain's Indian colonies causing mass famine killing as much as THREE MILLION people.
Where is their memorial?
Feeling angry is not the same as believing vendetta to be good. Revenge, such as Hell is reckoned to be, is ineffective for reconciliation and is an ancient form of justice based on vendetta. However genuine feelings of anger are prerequisite for reconciliation.
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Re: The question that drives me crazy

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Belindi wrote: August 25th, 2022, 5:53 am
Sculptor1 wrote: August 24th, 2022, 7:25 am
SneakySniper179 wrote: March 11th, 2021, 7:59 pm I remember going to the holocaust museum and seeing all the shoes stacked up and knowing all the bodies that occupied them. The teeth, The clothes the other valuables worth nothing to the dead. All of those things that represented a life stacked up in a pile. I read one day that josef mengele died on a beautiful beach in south america. The **** injustice of that sentiment drives me nuts.

I suffer for nothing and a man who killed people in terrible ways dies looking at a brazilian beach and just passes on. The people he killed screamed and begged and got nothing, Just nothing. They were just experiments to him, Nothing more, nothing less. And this pos gets to die in one of the most beautiful places in the world.

The injustice of that statement drives me nuts because if there isn't a hell there very well should be. Not for just anyone but for him, He deserves it more than anyone and he got to die in the best way you can die. Looking at one of the most beautiful scenes you can see in your life and he just slipped away while others begged for mercy. without the idea of hell for some people I would go totally nuts. Nothing would ever matter.

It's sickens me and I have to hope he went to sleep on a beautiful beach and woke up in a lake of fire because if not there is no point to this place. Why would I even **** try. How **** is that injustice to the people he hurt. They died on an operating table and he died content looking at pure beauty. The most beautiful things he died and that was the last thing on this earth he ever saw.

Why the **** would I subscribe to morality. There would be no reason, Nothing at all. What would really be the point. The good get **** and the bad get to die on in beauty. How absolutely **** up is that.

If you don't see what I see you are a broken person in this regard. My hatred knows no bounds to these people. Knowing that has hurt me more than anything and I hope with all my heart he is in hell burning.
The holocaust museum thrives on this sort of emotion to make the death of Jews special and exceptional.
As sad as it is, their demise was not exceptional.
Not far from that same beach where Mengele was supposed to have died marks the death of millions of native "indians" cut down by Portuguese & Spanish swords and muskets, and diseases. Their cultures trashed by the black beasts of Catholic Christianity.
Nearer to Germany are the German victims of the same war, and not so far away an entire nation traumatised by the was losing 22millions of their number Russia.
Meanwhile good old Churchill stole grain from Britain's Indian colonies causing mass famine killing as much as THREE MILLION people.
Where is their memorial?
Feeling angry is not the same as believing vendetta to be good. Revenge, such as Hell is reckoned to be, is ineffective for reconciliation and is an ancient form of justice based on vendetta. However genuine feelings of anger are prerequisite for reconciliation.
The holocaust memorial seeks no reconciliation. So where India has moved on from the killing of 3 million in 1943 through stealing their food, Israel continues to use the holocaust as an exception to justify their own oppression of Palestine.
Belindi
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Re: The question that drives me crazy

Post by Belindi »

Sculptor1 wrote: August 25th, 2022, 7:44 am
Belindi wrote: August 25th, 2022, 5:53 am
Sculptor1 wrote: August 24th, 2022, 7:25 am
SneakySniper179 wrote: March 11th, 2021, 7:59 pm I remember going to the holocaust museum and seeing all the shoes stacked up and knowing all the bodies that occupied them. The teeth, The clothes the other valuables worth nothing to the dead. All of those things that represented a life stacked up in a pile. I read one day that josef mengele died on a beautiful beach in south america. The **** injustice of that sentiment drives me nuts.

I suffer for nothing and a man who killed people in terrible ways dies looking at a brazilian beach and just passes on. The people he killed screamed and begged and got nothing, Just nothing. They were just experiments to him, Nothing more, nothing less. And this pos gets to die in one of the most beautiful places in the world.

The injustice of that statement drives me nuts because if there isn't a hell there very well should be. Not for just anyone but for him, He deserves it more than anyone and he got to die in the best way you can die. Looking at one of the most beautiful scenes you can see in your life and he just slipped away while others begged for mercy. without the idea of hell for some people I would go totally nuts. Nothing would ever matter.

It's sickens me and I have to hope he went to sleep on a beautiful beach and woke up in a lake of fire because if not there is no point to this place. Why would I even **** try. How **** is that injustice to the people he hurt. They died on an operating table and he died content looking at pure beauty. The most beautiful things he died and that was the last thing on this earth he ever saw.

Why the **** would I subscribe to morality. There would be no reason, Nothing at all. What would really be the point. The good get **** and the bad get to die on in beauty. How absolutely **** up is that.

If you don't see what I see you are a broken person in this regard. My hatred knows no bounds to these people. Knowing that has hurt me more than anything and I hope with all my heart he is in hell burning.
The holocaust museum thrives on this sort of emotion to make the death of Jews special and exceptional.
As sad as it is, their demise was not exceptional.
Not far from that same beach where Mengele was supposed to have died marks the death of millions of native "indians" cut down by Portuguese & Spanish swords and muskets, and diseases. Their cultures trashed by the black beasts of Catholic Christianity.
Nearer to Germany are the German victims of the same war, and not so far away an entire nation traumatised by the was losing 22millions of their number Russia.
Meanwhile good old Churchill stole grain from Britain's Indian colonies causing mass famine killing as much as THREE MILLION people.
Where is their memorial?
Feeling angry is not the same as believing vendetta to be good. Revenge, such as Hell is reckoned to be, is ineffective for reconciliation and is an ancient form of justice based on vendetta. However genuine feelings of anger are prerequisite for reconciliation.
The holocaust memorial seeks no reconciliation. So where India has moved on from the killing of 3 million in 1943 through stealing their food, Israel continues to use the holocaust as an exception to justify their own oppression of Palestine.
There's the perennial problem with museums that as repositories of memories the artefacts therein have halos of deadness. By contrast , any man's living anger is real and in the present.

The Israelis do justify their tyranny by posing as victims. Jews historically are victims. Their justification for tyrannising Palestinians depends on the Zionist fallacy.
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Sculptor1
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Re: The question that drives me crazy

Post by Sculptor1 »

Belindi wrote: August 25th, 2022, 11:39 am
Sculptor1 wrote: August 25th, 2022, 7:44 am
Belindi wrote: August 25th, 2022, 5:53 am
Sculptor1 wrote: August 24th, 2022, 7:25 am

The holocaust museum thrives on this sort of emotion to make the death of Jews special and exceptional.
As sad as it is, their demise was not exceptional.
Not far from that same beach where Mengele was supposed to have died marks the death of millions of native "indians" cut down by Portuguese & Spanish swords and muskets, and diseases. Their cultures trashed by the black beasts of Catholic Christianity.
Nearer to Germany are the German victims of the same war, and not so far away an entire nation traumatised by the was losing 22millions of their number Russia.
Meanwhile good old Churchill stole grain from Britain's Indian colonies causing mass famine killing as much as THREE MILLION people.
Where is their memorial?
Feeling angry is not the same as believing vendetta to be good. Revenge, such as Hell is reckoned to be, is ineffective for reconciliation and is an ancient form of justice based on vendetta. However genuine feelings of anger are prerequisite for reconciliation.
The holocaust memorial seeks no reconciliation. So where India has moved on from the killing of 3 million in 1943 through stealing their food, Israel continues to use the holocaust as an exception to justify their own oppression of Palestine.
There's the perennial problem with museums that as repositories of memories the artefacts therein have halos of deadness. By contrast , any man's living anger is real and in the present.

The Israelis do justify their tyranny by posing as victims. Jews historically are victims. Their justification for tyrannising Palestinians depends on the Zionist fallacy.
There is a lot to be said for the idea that the Ashkenazi are not even from Palestine/Judea/Israel but all come from Khazaria, and would explain their fair complexion.
In any event Zionism was encouraged not only by Jews looking for a "homeland" but by anti semitic elements wishing to rid their locales of Jews . I think Balfour may well fit this category, as well as Sykes and Pichot.
When all this was "decided" 100 years ago and more no one thought to ask the people who were actually living in that homeland and the degree of imperialist arrogance prevented anyone even thinking it would be relevant to do so.
Now we live in a different world where old British farts are no longer in control of the world, but they still think they ought to be.

What is to become of Israel is anyone's guess. I predict a thousand years of conflict which the Jews cannot ultimately win. As there are more Jews in the USA than in Israel this conflict is not about to abate, or be reconcilled.
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