Nietzsche, Good and Evil, and politics today
- King Pruss
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Nietzsche, Good and Evil, and politics today
I admit I am quite young (21) and haven't had great experience to the different political landscapes throughout US history. However, it seems to me that politics today has followed a similar values revolt. From viewing Democrats as pedophile, satanic cabals, to labeling Republicans as racist and furthering white supremacy, both sides are made out to be evil. As Nietzsche writes, slave morality is not a yes-saying to oneself, it is a no-saying to the other. Political alignments today seem to closely follow that. Less of being proud to be a specific party for the values it stands for, and more that the other party is evil and thus should never be considered.
I have taken Nietzsche's account of who led this revolt with a grain of salt. He mentions priests leading it out of revenge for being weak themselves and wanting to overthrow the established leaders. That seems pretty iffy to me but it is an interesting idea.
I'd like to hear your opinions on this relationship. How closely related do you see these two 'revolts'? Who would Nietzsche label as the 'priests' in leading what is happening in politics today? Is a 'slave-revolt'-esque in politics anything worthy of consideration?
- LuckyR
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Re: Nietzsche, Good and Evil, and politics today
- Sculptor1
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Re: Nietzsche, Good and Evil, and politics today
As the media is divided so too is the populace.
And since the media is basically right wing (even the so-called left), then so is the country two groups of slaves doing the bidding of those that control the message.
- Pattern-chaser
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Re: Nietzsche, Good and Evil, and politics today
And yet Democrats are not (generally) paedophiles or satanists, while the Republican Party does promote racist and white-supremacist views. The latter can easily be verified empirically.King Pruss wrote: ↑March 29th, 2021, 6:19 pm From viewing Democrats as pedophile, satanic cabals, to labeling Republicans as racist and furthering white supremacy, both sides are made out to be evil.
"Who cares, wins"
- Pattern-chaser
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Re: Nietzsche, Good and Evil, and politics today
Nietzsche's views are typical of someone who really doesn't like, or approve of, religion and religious belief. They identify a real problem, then blame religion for it. It's a sort of straw man argument. That's not to say that religion is innocent of any wrongdoing, far from it! But equally we can say that it isn't responsible for all of mankind's woes.King Pruss wrote: ↑March 29th, 2021, 6:19 pm I have taken Nietzsche's account of who led this revolt with a grain of salt. He mentions priests leading it out of revenge for being weak themselves and wanting to overthrow the established leaders. That seems pretty iffy to me but it is an interesting idea.
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- LuckyR
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Re: Nietzsche, Good and Evil, and politics today
Well I agree that between the radical right and left and the standard right and left, only the radical left is not really represented in the mainstream media. Though it is an exaggeration to suppose that the standard left is not represented.Sculptor1 wrote: ↑March 30th, 2021, 7:06 am The media is the new slave master, and humans love to participate in their own oppression and servitude.
As the media is divided so too is the populace.
And since the media is basically right wing (even the so-called left), then so is the country two groups of slaves doing the bidding of those that control the message.
- Pattern-chaser
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Re: Nietzsche, Good and Evil, and politics today
It is? <surprised> It is represented, but not well, and not a lot, IMO.
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- LuckyR
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Re: Nietzsche, Good and Evil, and politics today
Glad to hear we agree.Pattern-chaser wrote: ↑March 30th, 2021, 4:30 pmIt is? <surprised> It is represented, but not well, and not a lot, IMO.
- Sculptor1
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Re: Nietzsche, Good and Evil, and politics today
It's a matter of perspective.LuckyR wrote: ↑March 30th, 2021, 1:37 pmWell I agree that between the radical right and left and the standard right and left, only the radical left is not really represented in the mainstream media. Though it is an exaggeration to suppose that the standard left is not represented.Sculptor1 wrote: ↑March 30th, 2021, 7:06 am The media is the new slave master, and humans love to participate in their own oppression and servitude.
As the media is divided so too is the populace.
And since the media is basically right wing (even the so-called left), then so is the country two groups of slaves doing the bidding of those that control the message.
Jeremy Corbyn was to the right of Harold Wilson, though Wilson was considered centre left in his day. These days Corbyn is rather mild in terms of the left/right, though he seems to be denigrated as the most dangerous man in the world, like some sort of left wing radical.
Given Boris his governments complete disregard for basic democratic process, one has to wondere there the hell is the centre supposed to be?
I challenge you to demonstrate any "standard left" representation in the media!
- LuckyR
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Re: Nietzsche, Good and Evil, and politics today
Again it depends on your definition of terms, historically. Under current classifications MSNBC would be considered standard center left.Sculptor1 wrote: ↑March 30th, 2021, 7:43 pmIt's a matter of perspective.LuckyR wrote: ↑March 30th, 2021, 1:37 pmWell I agree that between the radical right and left and the standard right and left, only the radical left is not really represented in the mainstream media. Though it is an exaggeration to suppose that the standard left is not represented.Sculptor1 wrote: ↑March 30th, 2021, 7:06 am The media is the new slave master, and humans love to participate in their own oppression and servitude.
As the media is divided so too is the populace.
And since the media is basically right wing (even the so-called left), then so is the country two groups of slaves doing the bidding of those that control the message.
Jeremy Corbyn was to the right of Harold Wilson, though Wilson was considered centre left in his day. These days Corbyn is rather mild in terms of the left/right, though he seems to be denigrated as the most dangerous man in the world, like some sort of left wing radical.
Given Boris his governments complete disregard for basic democratic process, one has to wondere there the hell is the centre supposed to be?
I challenge you to demonstrate any "standard left" representation in the media!
- King Pruss
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Re: Nietzsche, Good and Evil, and politics today
I think when I originally asked this question I was curious about: Nietzsche's revelation on the 'evil' that slave-morality introduced to the world's moral value system. I couldn't help but see this same 'evil' concept of the other being woven into our political system today. Before, it seemed that the political value systems were just good and bad, akin to master morality. Now, both sides are entangled in a good vs evil battle. I wanted to bounce some ideas with someone on the implications of this and further this exploration.LuckyR wrote: ↑March 30th, 2021, 9:01 pmAgain it depends on your definition of terms, historically. Under current classifications MSNBC would be considered standard center left.Sculptor1 wrote: ↑March 30th, 2021, 7:43 pmIt's a matter of perspective.LuckyR wrote: ↑March 30th, 2021, 1:37 pmWell I agree that between the radical right and left and the standard right and left, only the radical left is not really represented in the mainstream media. Though it is an exaggeration to suppose that the standard left is not represented.Sculptor1 wrote: ↑March 30th, 2021, 7:06 am The media is the new slave master, and humans love to participate in their own oppression and servitude.
As the media is divided so too is the populace.
And since the media is basically right wing (even the so-called left), then so is the country two groups of slaves doing the bidding of those that control the message.
Jeremy Corbyn was to the right of Harold Wilson, though Wilson was considered centre left in his day. These days Corbyn is rather mild in terms of the left/right, though he seems to be denigrated as the most dangerous man in the world, like some sort of left wing radical.
Given Boris his governments complete disregard for basic democratic process, one has to wondere there the hell is the centre supposed to be?
I challenge you to demonstrate any "standard left" representation in the media!
On the genealogy of US political morality (lol), one could call this investigation. The US seems to be at a point where there is a strong division on the values to rally behind as a nation. There is the MAGA movement that holds in great reverence what the US stood for. Always viewing themselves as #1, the worlds savior, capitalism allowing everyone to succeed, etc. Then the counter movement recently looking to shine the light that America was never so great. The country was built on racism and the backs of slaves, capitalism only favors certain demographics, etc. The MAGA movement refuses to accept this and takes great hurt in these 'un-patriotic' slanders. This was only through a brief reflection, more work would need to be done.
I think some good philosophical routes to keep exploring this are: When did this sudden shift from mere economic policy and general values disagreements to downright barbaric division occur? What led us to this state (I have a hunch many things relate to the capitalist system leading to fortunes and technology never realized before)? Which value system is healthier to pursue? Nietzsche would not be pleased in a universal value system for everyone, but as he alludes in Zarathustra, the student must break from the master at some point.
I think this is more to explore and hopefully isn't forgotten. It can easily fall into the realm of political philosophy but I think focusing on the values dilemma separates it from a purely political issue. Hopefully I adequately led y'all to where my head was going with this post.
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Re: Nietzsche, Good and Evil, and politics today
It is all too common for the oppressed to want to become the oppresors. Instead of wanting to eliminate slavery, the slaves want to become slave-masters. Those who were raised in poverty want to become rich, and measure "achievement" in the size of their purses -- hence the bling. IN part this is due to the priviledged influencing societal ethos.Sculptor1 wrote: ↑March 30th, 2021, 7:06 am The media is the new slave master, and humans love to participate in their own oppression and servitude.
As the media is divided so too is the populace.
And since the media is basically right wing (even the so-called left), then so is the country two groups of slaves doing the bidding of those that control the message.
Blaming the "media" is simply silly. Has Sculptor (one wonders) broken his own chains? How is it he has avoided slavery, while the rest of us have not? Maybe he remains enslaved (we know he watches TV constantly). In the internet era, the "media" is more diverse than it has ever been. True: many media outlets cater to particular groups, but the notion that these outlets "enslave" people is ludicrous. It minimizes the evil of ACTUAL slavery. I think some people (often leftists) don't want to criticize the hoi palloi who support Trump or Fox News. They prefer seeing "elites" bamboozling and misguiding the deluded (but generally honorable) proletariat. I don't buy it. The Protestant and Capitalist ethic is well established; the "media" that established this ethos are parents and the pulpit, not Fox News.
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Re: Nietzsche, Good and Evil, and politics today
2023/2024 Philosophy Books of the Month
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