The Ethics of Tipping Service Workers

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chewybrian
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The Ethics of Tipping Service Workers

Post by chewybrian »

I am primarily interested in whether or not you think we should have this system in place, and what you see as the intended or unintended effects of it. A secondary issue might be how you should apply the system, seeing that it already exists, as a worker or a customer (should you tip or accept tips, etc.?)

My major objection is that this system rewards and encourages inauthenticity. The waiter might be nice only because because he wants and needs the tip money. The customer might be overbearing simply because he holds the trump card of the tip. The server should take pride in their work because it reflects upon their character. The customer should be kind out of respect for a fellow human.

Certainly there are other valid objections and reasons why we might support them system, but I will hope for others to bring these out.
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Re: The Ethics of Tipping Service Workers

Post by Haliaeetus »

I do not support tipping systems. I understand it is a normal practice in the country I live, and being an established practice it will probably never change, though I feel that waiters in other countries where tipping is not a common practice endure less stress for a higher, more consistent wage. I am assuming both of these things from hearsay.

However, since I choose not to move to those other countries, and tipping is the norm where I am, I always tip at least 20%. Even if the service may have had opportunity for improvement, I am impacting another human being, and judging them based on ten minutes of interaction. I like to think tipping a decent amount to someone that may not “deserve” the tip has more positive impact than tipping poorly for subpar service, which in theory is supposed to motivate people to perform better. However, my job doesn’t pay me less when I’m having a lousy day. Suppose that person’s dog died, or their parent is ill. I would feel ashamed to heap more frustration upon someone else that is already suffering.

Tipping systems seem to rely on customers to supplement wages for frontline service workers. However, can you imagine the uproar if we garnished wages to government workers, nurses, and others and adopted tipping systems to supplement their income? Why do we tolerate it in some industries, but not others?

I will continue tipping, though I am far from happy with the system.
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LuckyR
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Re: The Ethics of Tipping Service Workers

Post by LuckyR »

chewybrian wrote: April 3rd, 2021, 10:24 am I am primarily interested in whether or not you think we should have this system in place, and what you see as the intended or unintended effects of it. A secondary issue might be how you should apply the system, seeing that it already exists, as a worker or a customer (should you tip or accept tips, etc.?)

My major objection is that this system rewards and encourages inauthenticity. The waiter might be nice only because because he wants and needs the tip money. The customer might be overbearing simply because he holds the trump card of the tip. The server should take pride in their work because it reflects upon their character. The customer should be kind out of respect for a fellow human.

Certainly there are other valid objections and reasons why we might support them system, but I will hope for others to bring these out.
A couple of observations. First, folks who have never worked for tips tend to not understand the practice and thus undertip. I, like most people prefer the model where waitstaff and other service workers get a decent wage and tipping is rare and minimal in amount. However those of us who live where folks get less than the minimum wage in anticipation of tips, should tip and I have no patience for those who stiff the staff.

On a more practical note, why would you pi55 off the people who are bringing you stuff you are going to eat? Have you ever consumed stranger's body fluids? Are you sure?
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snt
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Re: The Ethics of Tipping Service Workers

Post by snt »

chewybrian wrote: April 3rd, 2021, 10:24 am I am primarily interested in whether or not you think we should have this system in place, and what you see as the intended or unintended effects of it. A secondary issue might be how you should apply the system, seeing that it already exists, as a worker or a customer (should you tip or accept tips, etc.?)

My major objection is that this system rewards and encourages inauthenticity. The waiter might be nice only because because he wants and needs the tip money. The customer might be overbearing simply because he holds the trump card of the tip. The server should take pride in their work because it reflects upon their character. The customer should be kind out of respect for a fellow human.

Certainly there are other valid objections and reasons why we might support them system, but I will hope for others to bring these out.
I do not see an issue with a systematized method to promote good, in this case optimal service quality (behaviour) from service workers. It might create a vicious circle in which both service workers and customers achieve an optimal state of happiness within the scope of the service provided.

There is a place for authenticity within an incentivized system, especially in this case in which the intend is to promote goodness (good behaviour). The natural kindness and good behaviour potential in a person is promoted and therefore, despite that it would also be performed when a service worker would feel unhappy, it provides an opportunity for service workers to 'grow' into happiness and kindness. It may enhance the ability of service workers to express kindness and good behaviour to people which could serve them in daily life.

When a parent teaches a child to be kind, the child wouldn't be inauthentic when he/she performs kindly in life.
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LuckyR
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Re: The Ethics of Tipping Service Workers

Post by LuckyR »

snt wrote: June 3rd, 2022, 2:45 am
chewybrian wrote: April 3rd, 2021, 10:24 am I am primarily interested in whether or not you think we should have this system in place, and what you see as the intended or unintended effects of it. A secondary issue might be how you should apply the system, seeing that it already exists, as a worker or a customer (should you tip or accept tips, etc.?)

My major objection is that this system rewards and encourages inauthenticity. The waiter might be nice only because because he wants and needs the tip money. The customer might be overbearing simply because he holds the trump card of the tip. The server should take pride in their work because it reflects upon their character. The customer should be kind out of respect for a fellow human.

Certainly there are other valid objections and reasons why we might support them system, but I will hope for others to bring these out.
I do not see an issue with a systematized method to promote good, in this case optimal service quality (behaviour) from service workers. It might create a vicious circle in which both service workers and customers achieve an optimal state of happiness within the scope of the service provided.

There is a place for authenticity within an incentivized system, especially in this case in which the intend is to promote goodness (good behaviour). The natural kindness and good behaviour potential in a person is promoted and therefore, despite that it would also be performed when a service worker would feel unhappy, it provides an opportunity for service workers to 'grow' into happiness and kindness. It may enhance the ability of service workers to express kindness and good behaviour to people which could serve them in daily life.

When a parent teaches a child to be kind, the child wouldn't be inauthentic when he/she performs kindly in life.
I understand the theoretical underpinnings of your commentary and I don't disagree with them dramatically. Though on a more practical note, waitstaff deserve a living wage and the reality is some folks will refuse to spend money on an "optional" or voluntary basis, even if they received optimal service. Some are just like that. No one wants their pay to be optional.
"As usual... it depends."
snt
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Re: The Ethics of Tipping Service Workers

Post by snt »

LuckyR wrote: June 3rd, 2022, 4:03 am I understand the theoretical underpinnings of your commentary and I don't disagree with them dramatically. Though on a more practical note, waitstaff deserve a living wage and the reality is some folks will refuse to spend money on an "optional" or voluntary basis, even if they received optimal service. Some are just like that. No one wants their pay to be optional.
I agree. Fairness of compensation shouldn't be at question, and it would undermine the performance of the service workers. I was in the assumption that the tips were given as an extra by grateful customers.
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LuckyR
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Re: The Ethics of Tipping Service Workers

Post by LuckyR »

snt wrote: June 3rd, 2022, 5:55 am
LuckyR wrote: June 3rd, 2022, 4:03 am I understand the theoretical underpinnings of your commentary and I don't disagree with them dramatically. Though on a more practical note, waitstaff deserve a living wage and the reality is some folks will refuse to spend money on an "optional" or voluntary basis, even if they received optimal service. Some are just like that. No one wants their pay to be optional.
I agree. Fairness of compensation shouldn't be at question, and it would undermine the performance of the service workers. I was in the assumption that the tips were given as an extra by grateful customers.
That is the European system. Tips are truly optional and minimal since the wages and benefits are livable. The US system allows sub-minimum wages and no benefits.
"As usual... it depends."
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