The Devil Was A Genius And His Name Was Adolf

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popeye1945
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The Devil Was A Genius And His Name Was Adolf

Post by popeye1945 »

There is no historical figure who could match this man for pure evil and yet he was loved and worship almost like a god. He was a psychopath no doubt but how did he charm a nation into relishing their humanity, how did he indirectly kill sixty five million people. He needed lots of helping hands. He showed us just what humanity is capable of, and just how thin this layer of civilization really is. This evil genius must have had a knowledge of humanity superior to any public figure past or present, he played the German people like a violin, and play that violin-like it had never been played before.

Any actor must bow to his performance, for the persona he presented to the German people was the direct opposite of what he was. He tugged at their heartstrings with a sincerity and passion that would melt stone, he was a master manipulator, so, what were the things he knew, and knew about us in our humanity, this is intriguing in and of itself, more than that, in the process we might learn a great deal about ourselves, that material he molded into an evil manifestation of a rolling death machine. So, let's hear some ideas on this, what did this man know about us?
Steve3007
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Re: The Devil Was A Genius And His Name Was Adolf

Post by Steve3007 »

If there was one personal characteristic above others that helped him to be so successful in achieving his goals (at least for a while) I'd say it was sincerity and self-belief. I don't think you need to speculate that he had some great insight into human nature. He just sincerely believed that his cause was right, and people could see that. It seems that there is something in human nature which equates self-confidence and self-belief with veracity. It's hard (for many people at least) to believe that a person can passionately believe themselves to be right and still be wrong.

It's essentially the same as the reason why stand-up comedy is such a hard game to be in. If you have doubts that you're funny, the chances are other people will too. It's a world of extreme vicious and virtuous circles. In another life, I think Adolf Hitler could have made a very good "play it absolutely straight" style of stand-up.
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Sculptor1
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Re: The Devil Was A Genius And His Name Was Adolf

Post by Sculptor1 »

popeye1945 wrote: May 12th, 2021, 2:58 am There is no historical figure who could match this man for pure evil and yet he was loved and worship almost like a god. He was a psychopath no doubt but how did he charm a nation into relishing their humanity, how did he indirectly kill sixty five million people. He needed lots of helping hands. He showed us just what humanity is capable of, and just how thin this layer of civilization really is. This evil genius must have had a knowledge of humanity superior to any public figure past or present, he played the German people like a violin, and play that violin-like it had never been played before.

Any actor must bow to his performance, for the persona he presented to the German people was the direct opposite of what he was. He tugged at their heartstrings with a sincerity and passion that would melt stone, he was a master manipulator, so, what were the things he knew, and knew about us in our humanity, this is intriguing in and of itself, more than that, in the process we might learn a great deal about ourselves, that material he molded into an evil manifestation of a rolling death machine. So, let's hear some ideas on this, what did this man know about us?
The only we of looking at this is that AH was a product of his society; the political milleu, WWI; his followers who gave him encouragement; and the government who gave him his first office.
I once read an alternative history where the protagonist when back and stopped AH being born. When he returns to his native Ehgland he finds that it has become the 51st state of the US, and the rest of Europe is all part of Greater Germany.
The point being that the historical conditions set up the possibility of AH, but another smarter and more ruthless tyrrant took his place successfully invading England but pushed back by the US who decided not to leave. The British Empire fell and the US fulfilled its plans to take Canda too.

Germans were desperate for a win after the defeat of WW1 and there being a gap in the political landscape someone was going to fill it.
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Sculptor1
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Re: The Devil Was A Genius And His Name Was Adolf

Post by Sculptor1 »

Steve3007 wrote: May 12th, 2021, 6:09 am If there was one personal characteristic above others that helped him to be so successful in achieving his goals (at least for a while) I'd say it was sincerity and self-belief. I don't think you need to speculate that he had some great insight into human nature. He just sincerely believed that his cause was right, and people could see that. It seems that there is something in human nature which equates self-confidence and self-belief with veracity. It's hard (for many people at least) to believe that a person can passionately believe themselves to be right and still be wrong.

It's essentially the same as the reason why stand-up comedy is such a hard game to be in. If you have doubts that you're funny, the chances are other people will too. It's a world of extreme vicious and virtuous circles. In another life, I think Adolf Hitler could have made a very good "play it absolutely straight" style of stand-up.
Indeed. One has to ponder what might have happened if the Art School he applied to join had been less snooty and had welcomed him into their halls??
I never thought it was useful or even meaningful to call him evil.
There is no doubt that he fully and completely hated the Jews and what he saw as their social and economic power of his beloved Germany and its people. And there is no doubt that his ideas were thoroughly based on the assumptions of racialism, and destiny, which were common and sadly re-emerging,
But saying he was evil is just lazy.
We can never hope to avoid such a calumny again if we chose to characterise AH in this lazy and useless way.

For each fucntionary that contibuted to the extermination of Jews, Gays, disabled, Slavs, Gypsies, each part of the job was emotionless and easy. As easy as moving one list of people from column A to column B. Each stage in the process was LEGAL. This made the holocaust smoothly achieved and each person along the way was able to absolve himself of responsibilty. Adolf Eichmann who was later put to death by Isreal in a legally unprecedented case, was no more that a pen pusher. Hanna Arendt's account of his trial is worth a read.
Aggression and sadism was reserved for the end process, where people capable of this behaviour were recruited, and exploited.
There was plenty of reason to think that the Jews, Gays, disabled, Slavs, Gypsies, were being treated well. Propoganda films ensured that. So whilst many Germans thought it bad, their own preservation kept them compliant, and the benefits of victory kept them happy in the short term.
popeye1945
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Re: The Devil Was A Genius And His Name Was Adolf

Post by popeye1945 »

Hi Steve,

Interesting insights, but I do believe along with the validity of what you have said there is a historical base for his fear-mongering and fear turns into hate. The human condition, its frailty, and an opportunity to manipulate it occurred in a time when the stars were all aligned metaphorically speaking, The Nazi mentality showed us just how thin the layer of civilization is. Under great fear and/or deprivation humanity tends to fail, and this was a grandiose fail, one that would take the lives of sixty-five million people. If the people had not suffered long, and when it appeared it couldn't get any worse it did, desperation set in. For some time before he became chancellor the years of political struggle, people had no ears for his message but times they were a-changing. No it is a complex situation with much to learn of human nature and why they served such an evil system, certainly ignorance played a role, governments love a dumb population.
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Re: The Devil Was A Genius And His Name Was Adolf

Post by Ecurb »

Self-belief is dangerous, as is fanatical belief in almost anything. Hitler believed in the German State and the German People. He thought it was their destiny to rule the world. Lenin, Stalin, Mao and Pol Pot believed in the Communist dream of a utopian state (OK, maybe Stalin was more of a pragmatist). Torquemada believed that heresy endangered immortal souls. Given their beliefs, their behaviors were not irrational.

The king is history's slave (acc. Tolstoy). Hitler, Lenin, Mao and (even) Donald Trump were created by the forces of history. With billions of people in the world, someone will always fill the role that the public demands. If it isn't Lenin, it will be Trotsky (or someone else). The demagogue is defined by his talent, not by his principles. The talented comic interacts with his audience. He is not merely self-confident; he learns what his audience wants and then he gives it to them. The political demagogues do the same.
popeye1945
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Re: The Devil Was A Genius And His Name Was Adolf

Post by popeye1945 »

So, Hitler was honest and straightforward with his plans to make war on Poland, he didn't try to keep the German people from knowing about the death camps. If one has irrational beliefs one's behaviours are irrational----and may Ali behead you if you disagree.
Steve3007
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Re: The Devil Was A Genius And His Name Was Adolf

Post by Steve3007 »

Sculptor1 wrote:The only we of looking at this is that AH was a product of his society...

Indeed. One has to ponder what might have happened if the Art School he applied to join had been less snooty and had welcomed him into their halls??
I never thought it was useful or even meaningful to call him evil...
Yes, those posts, including the summary of the systems which can be put in place to allow things like the Holocaust to happen, seem pretty accurate to me. I guess the interesting thing about Hitler is the way in which he, probably more than any other historical figure, has become a byword for evil. Hence Godwin's Law. But I agree that it is lazy and useless to do this and forget that he was a human being living in a particular historical context.
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Re: The Devil Was A Genius And His Name Was Adolf

Post by Robert66 »

This thread reminded me of the great BBC production from 2004 "Five Steps to Tyranny". To quote the narrator's opening lines:

'Horrific things happen in the world we live in. We would like to believe only evil people carry out atrocities, but tyrannies are created by ordinary people, like you and me.
...
Psychology can help us understand ... you will see how willing we are to obey."

Warning - if you do watch this documentary, (which is on YouTube - https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=PeBisBQblFM) you will be confronted. By what happened in "Yugoslavia", in Rwanda, the Stanford experiments and more.

Sculptor1 and Steve3007 are right - context is crucial. Hitler was no more a genius than many other political leaders.
Tegularius
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Re: The Devil Was A Genius And His Name Was Adolf

Post by Tegularius »

The best way to create a tyrant is to denigrate an advanced and cultured civilization, give it terms that it can't possibly live with and will not in the long term. Whenever events like that happen one can be sure the someone will step into the foreground and state the injustice of what has been imposed upon it with promises to rectify the situation. This Hitler did for the first few years. Life was good then compared to the past. Based on those results the population was obviously in accord. His real agenda only came to light when the war started.

Hitler was essentially a reaction to the gross stupidity of the first world war victors in imposing massive punitive damages to a country that proved itself to be one of the mainstays of Western Civilization. When that happens it's not unlikely that what was once magnificently creative becomes in equal measure destructive.
The earth has a skin and that skin has diseases; one of its diseases is called man ... Nietzsche
popeye1945
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Re: The Devil Was A Genius And His Name Was Adolf

Post by popeye1945 »

The man for the moment? Not unlike Churchhill, the stars being aligned, the stage set?
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Re: The Devil Was A Genius And His Name Was Adolf

Post by Count Lucanor »

Churchill, Stalin, Nixon, Reagan, Bush...they were no better than Hitler. Demonizing Hitler to the point of making a caricature is a cliche of mass culture and a leftover of the times of war propaganda.
The wise are instructed by reason, average minds by experience, the stupid by necessity and the brute by instinct.
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Re: The Devil Was A Genius And His Name Was Adolf

Post by LuckyR »

popeye1945 wrote: May 12th, 2021, 2:58 am There is no historical figure who could match this man for pure evil and yet he was loved and worship almost like a god. He was a psychopath no doubt but how did he charm a nation into relishing their humanity, how did he indirectly kill sixty five million people. He needed lots of helping hands. He showed us just what humanity is capable of, and just how thin this layer of civilization really is. This evil genius must have had a knowledge of humanity superior to any public figure past or present, he played the German people like a violin, and play that violin-like it had never been played before.

Any actor must bow to his performance, for the persona he presented to the German people was the direct opposite of what he was. He tugged at their heartstrings with a sincerity and passion that would melt stone, he was a master manipulator, so, what were the things he knew, and knew about us in our humanity, this is intriguing in and of itself, more than that, in the process we might learn a great deal about ourselves, that material he molded into an evil manifestation of a rolling death machine. So, let's hear some ideas on this, what did this man know about us?
As it turns out, folks who are over the top successful, while very good at what they do, are not proportionally more skilled than those who are more typically successful. That is, luck distinguishes between the very successful and the crazy successful, whereas skill, talent and hard work etc (the usual suspects) determine success vs failure.

Bottom line if you think AH is the very worst leader ever, he was actually very successful at being bad, but not dramatically worse than the other very bad leaders through history. AH was just "lucky" that post WW1 Germany provided the environment for him to take the title of worst.
"As usual... it depends."
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Re: The Devil Was A Genius And His Name Was Adolf

Post by Pattern-chaser »

popeye1945 wrote: May 12th, 2021, 2:58 am There is no historical figure who could match this man for pure evil and yet he was loved and worship almost like a god. He was a psychopath no doubt, but how did he charm a nation into relishing their humanity, how did he indirectly kill sixty five million people?

Stalin was responsible for the deaths of more than 20 million of his fellow countrymen. Churchill may have been responsible for the deaths of millions of Indians by famine, and championed the use of chemical weapons against human beings. All of them were 'political animals', and acted according to political and personal gain, not morality. It is difficult to say that one of them is "evil" if we do not also include the others. The 'bottom line' is that humans have treated other humans terribly, for all of their (our) history.
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Re: The Devil Was A Genius And His Name Was Adolf

Post by Tegularius »

Pattern-chaser wrote: May 13th, 2021, 10:58 am
popeye1945 wrote: May 12th, 2021, 2:58 am There is no historical figure who could match this man for pure evil and yet he was loved and worship almost like a god. He was a psychopath no doubt, but how did he charm a nation into relishing their humanity, how did he indirectly kill sixty five million people?

Stalin was responsible for the deaths of more than 20 million of his fellow countrymen. Churchill may have been responsible for the deaths of millions of Indians by famine, and championed the use of chemical weapons against human beings. All of them were 'political animals', and acted according to political and personal gain, not morality. It is difficult to say that one of them is "evil" if we do not also include the others. The 'bottom line' is that humans have treated other humans terribly, for all of their (our) history.
Churchill was a true scumbag. Of course one doesn't read these things in his worshipful biographies where he comes out invariably as a national hero. The man was a real warmonger who in the 1st & 2nd world wars needed and pleaded for American help to save England from the Germans. He was a dissembler and deceiver in every sense of the word who didn't stand behind Hitler in that regard.
The earth has a skin and that skin has diseases; one of its diseases is called man ... Nietzsche
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