The Devil Was A Genius And His Name Was Adolf

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popeye1945
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Re: The Devil Was A Genius And His Name Was Adolf

Post by popeye1945 »

Pattern-chaser wrote: May 13th, 2021, 10:58 am
popeye1945 wrote: May 12th, 2021, 2:58 am There is no historical figure who could match this man for pure evil and yet he was loved and worship almost like a god. He was a psychopath no doubt, but how did he charm a nation into relishing their humanity, how did he indirectly kill sixty five million people?

Stalin was responsible for the deaths of more than 20 million of his fellow countrymen. Churchill may have been responsible for the deaths of millions of Indians by famine, and championed the use of chemical weapons against human beings. All of them were 'political animals', and acted according to political and personal gain, not morality. It is difficult to say that one of them is "evil" if we do not also include the others. The 'bottom line' is that humans have treated other humans terribly, for all of their (our) history.
Hi Pattern Chaser,
I do appreciate your point, it would probably be better to use another term. Evil tends to have some religious baggage. The term is useful none the less, Adolf certainly is a contender, with indirectly killing sixty five million people, that's pretty evil.
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Imp
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Re: The Devil Was A Genius And His Name Was Adolf

Post by Imp »

I wouldn't call AH a genius by any stretch. He ignored tons of good advice from his generals, and let his ego cost Germany the war. Had a few decisions been made differently, the world would be a drastically different place.

As for evil, WE (Americans) fire bombed Edo, dropped nukes on Nagasaki and Hiroshima, interned Japanese Americans here at home, not to mention that we forcefully drafted millions of our own citizen and sent them out to kill and die for us. Is it as bad...I dont think so, but I'm biased.
Steve3007
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Re: The Devil Was A Genius And His Name Was Adolf

Post by Steve3007 »

I gather from various WWII documentaries and history books that one of his worst blunders was that whole business of not being able to decide whether to invade Stalingrad or capture the oil fields in the Caucasus. It seems that the inability to contemplate a tactical withdrawal, with the resultant orders to his armies to fight to the death, can be beneficial in the early stages of a conflict but quickly becomes less so. I sometimes think that if he'd been able to take the advice of Kenny Rogers in the song "The Gambler" he might have been more successful.
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LuckyR
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Re: The Devil Was A Genius And His Name Was Adolf

Post by LuckyR »

Steve3007 wrote: September 13th, 2021, 6:31 am I gather from various WWII documentaries and history books that one of his worst blunders was that whole business of not being able to decide whether to invade Stalingrad or capture the oil fields in the Caucasus. It seems that the inability to contemplate a tactical withdrawal, with the resultant orders to his armies to fight to the death, can be beneficial in the early stages of a conflict but quickly becomes less so. I sometimes think that if he'd been able to take the advice of Kenny Rogers in the song "The Gambler" he might have been more successful.
He was a genius politician, not a genius general/commander.
"As usual... it depends."
Tegularius
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Re: The Devil Was A Genius And His Name Was Adolf

Post by Tegularius »

The Russia fiasco is a prime example of what is likely to happen when you move armies around on a large table instead of actually being there thinking it feasible to play army chess in miniature.
The earth has a skin and that skin has diseases; one of its diseases is called man ... Nietzsche
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Sy Borg
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Re: The Devil Was A Genius And His Name Was Adolf

Post by Sy Borg »

Hitler did not have to contend with the usual limits that impacted on the ability of other politicians to cut through. A person with a complete disregard for truthfulness, empathy, kindness, decency and cooperation has an advantage over those who care about others, or even care what they think.

I do not confuse raw ruthlessness with genius. If Hitler operated within the usual confines of truthfulness, empathy, kindness, decency and cooperation, he would not have had the wit, wisdom or intellect to make an impact. There is a reason why psychopaths do well in the upper echelons of society and business, where ethics tends to take a back seat to profits: https://hbr.org/2004/10/executive-psychopaths
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LuckyR
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Re: The Devil Was A Genius And His Name Was Adolf

Post by LuckyR »

Sy Borg wrote: September 15th, 2021, 8:50 pm Hitler did not have to contend with the usual limits that impacted on the ability of other politicians to cut through. A person with a complete disregard for truthfulness, empathy, kindness, decency and cooperation has an advantage over those who care about others, or even care what they think.

I do not confuse raw ruthlessness with genius. If Hitler operated within the usual confines of truthfulness, empathy, kindness, decency and cooperation, he would not have had the wit, wisdom or intellect to make an impact. There is a reason why psychopaths do well in the upper echelons of society and business, where ethics tends to take a back seat to profits: https://hbr.org/2004/10/executive-psychopaths
Exactly. Sociopaths and psychopaths are overrepresented in leadership, but he thrived in that environment (not one of kindness, truthfulness, empathy etc).
"As usual... it depends."
popeye1945
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Re: The Devil Was A Genius And His Name Was Adolf

Post by popeye1945 »

As with man so with nations, what were they reacting too. This is always complex unless you believe in free will. The whirlwind of cause and effect or cause and reaction is perhaps too complex to understand, but sometimes in the immediacy of fear and deprivation the fog of understanding is not so concealed. Both of those were present in the extreme prior to the war in Germany. Is there much more to say, how fragile the human psyche how quickly under such duress the creature gives up his humanity. Yes, it is true, it happened there, but it can happen anywhere, it is the nature of the beast. Are we stuck with our Jeckel and Hyde natures; it does seem it will be our demise, the present fall of the empire of the United States seems will lead to that nature taking us all down with the empire. That could be another question, are empires historically ever humane certainly the British and American empires cannot make that claim, is this the same subject we started with, are empires lead by psychopaths? Just a little grit for the clam to see if some pearls emerge.
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emvarking1
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Re: The Devil Was A Genius And His Name Was Adolf

Post by emvarking1 »

popeye1945 wrote: May 12th, 2021, 2:58 am There is no historical figure who could match this man for pure evil and yet he was loved and worship almost like a god. He was a psychopath no doubt but how did he charm a nation into relishing their humanity, how did he indirectly kill sixty five million people. He needed lots of helping hands. He showed us just what humanity is capable of, and just how thin this layer of civilization really is. This evil genius must have had a knowledge of humanity superior to any public figure past or present, he played the German people like a violin, and play that violin-like it had never been played before.

Any actor must bow to his performance, for the persona he presented to the German people was the direct opposite of what he was. He tugged at their heartstrings with a sincerity and passion that would melt stone, he was a master manipulator, so, what were the things he knew, and knew about us in our humanity, this is intriguing in and of itself, more than that, in the process we might learn a great deal about ourselves, that material he molded into an evil manifestation of a rolling death machine. So, let's hear some ideas on this, what did this man know about us?
popeye1945
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Re: The Devil Was A Genius And His Name Was Adolf

Post by popeye1945 »

emvarking1 wrote: August 17th, 2023, 9:34 pm
popeye1945 wrote: May 12th, 2021, 2:58 am There is no historical figure who could match this man for pure evil and yet he was loved and worship almost like a god. He was a psychopath no doubt but how did he charm a nation into relishing their humanity, how did he indirectly kill sixty five million people. He needed lots of helping hands. He showed us just what humanity is capable of, and just how thin this layer of civilization really is. This evil genius must have had a knowledge of humanity superior to any public figure past or present, he played the German people like a violin, and play that violin-like it had never been played before.

Any actor must bow to his performance, for the persona he presented to the German people was the direct opposite of what he was. He tugged at their heartstrings with a sincerity and passion that would melt stone, he was a master manipulator, so, what were the things he knew, and knew about us in our humanity, this is intriguing in and of itself, more than that, in the process we might learn a great deal about ourselves, that material he molded into an evil manifestation of a rolling death machine. So, let's hear some ideas on this, what did this man know about us?
emvarking1, welcome, your post is an understatement! Glade, you could join us at any rate.
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