Ethical Vaccine Distribution

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Empiricist-Bruno
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Re: Re:

Post by Empiricist-Bruno »

LuckyR wrote: November 6th, 2021, 3:14 pm
Empiricist-Bruno wrote: November 6th, 2021, 12:45 pm
LuckyR wrote: November 4th, 2021, 2:00 am
Empiricist-Bruno wrote: November 3rd, 2021, 10:05 pm
I think this is a case of controling the narration. The media does it and the people repeat it. In my experience, the best way to brand those of us who reject the COVID-19 vaccines is that they are anti bullying. I think it's a farce to suggest that they are somehow bullied into their views. As you know, I am pro-vaccine but anti-animal cruelty and so I get to be branded as an anti-vaccine person when I am not one bit that way. But as I see the effort being put into bullying people into taking the vaccine, I feel as if I have a second reason now to reject the vaccine as it is being associated with coercion. Bullying is a problem in society and the root causes need to be addressed and if you are openly critical of those of us who reject the vaccine, then, in my opinion, I think you are in sinc with the bullies of our species, and I am critical of that.
At the current time bullying is a pejorative term used by many who seek to hide behind victim status. What is your definition of bullying?
Some people define bullying differently, indeed. Here is a recent concept that's not in line with what you seem to think is but as you say, it all depends. Being the but end of jokes is bullying for instance.
https://www.bbc.com/news/world-us-canada-59015486

There is more subtle bullying going on too.

The joke you tell about anti-vaxxers, "IMO most antivaxxers are old school contrarians who naturally bristle when they feel they are being told what to do. The sort who walk on the grass right next to the Don't Walk on the Grass sign" is also bullying in my opinion.

I would also consider Average Bozo's remarks as a form of bullying, "I don’t think it’s anti-bullying sentiment that leads to most instances of anti-vaccism. Rather it is fear, a powerful human motivator, whether it be fear of an unfamiliar substance injected into the body, fear of pain inflicted by the injection, fear of loss of autonomy, fear of injury at the hands of a bully or some other fear all together."

Suggesting that antivaxxers are eccentrics has for obvious purpose to marginalize them and their views. It's also a great way to deny their existence. They bring to the table issues you do not wish to confront/address and the only way you can deal with them is claiming that they are something that they aren't, and that the way for them to no longer be what you wrongly claim that they are is by helping them get over their understandable fears. I think it goes beyond being condescending because as you deny their issues, you get to suppress them and although I understand this is often not done very thoughtfully by most people as they repeat points found everywhere in mass media, I feel certain that those mass media directors know exactly what's implied in what they decide to print, and that's wrong. It's dodging the discussion that they know they can't win.

I think that even sitting in a cafeteria after getting your vaccination certificate and ID checked out is a form of bulllying if non vaccinated people are around. It's bullying by provocation aimed at restricting privilege to those who believe in the state's divisive approach to fighting the pandemic.

To effectively fight a pandemic, you need leadership and the development of intelligence to fight the disease. An intelligent approach would be to target zero cases, and have a world wide approach to fighting this scourge. And you won't get that with bullies leading the world's political systems. Remember that lots of very rich people have become a lot richer under the pandemic and so expect that not everyone want it to go away.

In other words, ethical vaccine delivery of the COVID vaccine is simply not possible. It will necessarily be delivered in an unethical way as it is a product of morally bankrupt minds.
Several things.

First your link was to a court case that supported the jokester, that is: said that the jokes weren't bullying.

Second, you are free to water down your definition of bullying to anything that upsets someone, but be aware that it puts bullying into a category of behavior that warrants almost no notice nor reaction.

As to your last paragraph, the actual delivery of the vaccine by definition meets the local standard and thus is ethical in that context. You may find it and it's logic underpinnings immoral, but many, if not most find it perfectly moral. Agree to disagree.
The jokester wasn't on trial for bullying but for discrimination and his jokes were found not to be discrimination. I put up this link to show what it's like to be bullied, which has no legal definition, as far as I know.

To portrait my definition of bullying as "anything that upsets someone" is misrepresenting how I view bullying. I smell the strawman argument here, and the use of such arguments against anti-vaxxers is in my opinion part of a broad attempt at bullying them in general.
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Re: Re:

Post by LuckyR »

Empiricist-Bruno wrote: November 6th, 2021, 9:39 pm
LuckyR wrote: November 6th, 2021, 3:14 pm
Empiricist-Bruno wrote: November 6th, 2021, 12:45 pm
LuckyR wrote: November 4th, 2021, 2:00 am

At the current time bullying is a pejorative term used by many who seek to hide behind victim status. What is your definition of bullying?
Some people define bullying differently, indeed. Here is a recent concept that's not in line with what you seem to think is but as you say, it all depends. Being the but end of jokes is bullying for instance.
https://www.bbc.com/news/world-us-canada-59015486

There is more subtle bullying going on too.

The joke you tell about anti-vaxxers, "IMO most antivaxxers are old school contrarians who naturally bristle when they feel they are being told what to do. The sort who walk on the grass right next to the Don't Walk on the Grass sign" is also bullying in my opinion.

I would also consider Average Bozo's remarks as a form of bullying, "I don’t think it’s anti-bullying sentiment that leads to most instances of anti-vaccism. Rather it is fear, a powerful human motivator, whether it be fear of an unfamiliar substance injected into the body, fear of pain inflicted by the injection, fear of loss of autonomy, fear of injury at the hands of a bully or some other fear all together."

Suggesting that antivaxxers are eccentrics has for obvious purpose to marginalize them and their views. It's also a great way to deny their existence. They bring to the table issues you do not wish to confront/address and the only way you can deal with them is claiming that they are something that they aren't, and that the way for them to no longer be what you wrongly claim that they are is by helping them get over their understandable fears. I think it goes beyond being condescending because as you deny their issues, you get to suppress them and although I understand this is often not done very thoughtfully by most people as they repeat points found everywhere in mass media, I feel certain that those mass media directors know exactly what's implied in what they decide to print, and that's wrong. It's dodging the discussion that they know they can't win.

I think that even sitting in a cafeteria after getting your vaccination certificate and ID checked out is a form of bulllying if non vaccinated people are around. It's bullying by provocation aimed at restricting privilege to those who believe in the state's divisive approach to fighting the pandemic.

To effectively fight a pandemic, you need leadership and the development of intelligence to fight the disease. An intelligent approach would be to target zero cases, and have a world wide approach to fighting this scourge. And you won't get that with bullies leading the world's political systems. Remember that lots of very rich people have become a lot richer under the pandemic and so expect that not everyone want it to go away.

In other words, ethical vaccine delivery of the COVID vaccine is simply not possible. It will necessarily be delivered in an unethical way as it is a product of morally bankrupt minds.
Several things.

First your link was to a court case that supported the jokester, that is: said that the jokes weren't bullying.

Second, you are free to water down your definition of bullying to anything that upsets someone, but be aware that it puts bullying into a category of behavior that warrants almost no notice nor reaction.

As to your last paragraph, the actual delivery of the vaccine by definition meets the local standard and thus is ethical in that context. You may find it and it's logic underpinnings immoral, but many, if not most find it perfectly moral. Agree to disagree.
The jokester wasn't on trial for bullying but for discrimination and his jokes were found not to be discrimination. I put up this link to show what it's like to be bullied, which has no legal definition, as far as I know.

To portrait my definition of bullying as "anything that upsets someone" is misrepresenting how I view bullying. I smell the strawman argument here, and the use of such arguments against anti-vaxxers is in my opinion part of a broad attempt at bullying them in general.
I think you have made my second point more clearly than I did. Kudos to you.
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Empiricist-Bruno
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Re: Re:

Post by Empiricist-Bruno »

LuckyR wrote: November 7th, 2021, 2:52 am
Empiricist-Bruno wrote: November 6th, 2021, 9:39 pm
LuckyR wrote: November 6th, 2021, 3:14 pm
Empiricist-Bruno wrote: November 6th, 2021, 12:45 pm
Some people define bullying differently, indeed. Here is a recent concept that's not in line with what you seem to think is but as you say, it all depends. Being the but end of jokes is bullying for instance.
https://www.bbc.com/news/world-us-canada-59015486

There is more subtle bullying going on too.

The joke you tell about anti-vaxxers, "IMO most antivaxxers are old school contrarians who naturally bristle when they feel they are being told what to do. The sort who walk on the grass right next to the Don't Walk on the Grass sign" is also bullying in my opinion.

I would also consider Average Bozo's remarks as a form of bullying, "I don’t think it’s anti-bullying sentiment that leads to most instances of anti-vaccism. Rather it is fear, a powerful human motivator, whether it be fear of an unfamiliar substance injected into the body, fear of pain inflicted by the injection, fear of loss of autonomy, fear of injury at the hands of a bully or some other fear all together."

Suggesting that antivaxxers are eccentrics has for obvious purpose to marginalize them and their views. It's also a great way to deny their existence. They bring to the table issues you do not wish to confront/address and the only way you can deal with them is claiming that they are something that they aren't, and that the way for them to no longer be what you wrongly claim that they are is by helping them get over their understandable fears. I think it goes beyond being condescending because as you deny their issues, you get to suppress them and although I understand this is often not done very thoughtfully by most people as they repeat points found everywhere in mass media, I feel certain that those mass media directors know exactly what's implied in what they decide to print, and that's wrong. It's dodging the discussion that they know they can't win.

I think that even sitting in a cafeteria after getting your vaccination certificate and ID checked out is a form of bulllying if non vaccinated people are around. It's bullying by provocation aimed at restricting privilege to those who believe in the state's divisive approach to fighting the pandemic.

To effectively fight a pandemic, you need leadership and the development of intelligence to fight the disease. An intelligent approach would be to target zero cases, and have a world wide approach to fighting this scourge. And you won't get that with bullies leading the world's political systems. Remember that lots of very rich people have become a lot richer under the pandemic and so expect that not everyone want it to go away.

In other words, ethical vaccine delivery of the COVID vaccine is simply not possible. It will necessarily be delivered in an unethical way as it is a product of morally bankrupt minds.
Several things.

First your link was to a court case that supported the jokester, that is: said that the jokes weren't bullying.

Second, you are free to water down your definition of bullying to anything that upsets someone, but be aware that it puts bullying into a category of behavior that warrants almost no notice nor reaction.

As to your last paragraph, the actual delivery of the vaccine by definition meets the local standard and thus is ethical in that context. You may find it and it's logic underpinnings immoral, but many, if not most find it perfectly moral. Agree to disagree.
The jokester wasn't on trial for bullying but for discrimination and his jokes were found not to be discrimination. I put up this link to show what it's like to be bullied, which has no legal definition, as far as I know.

To portrait my definition of bullying as "anything that upsets someone" is misrepresenting how I view bullying. I smell the strawman argument here, and the use of such arguments against anti-vaxxers is in my opinion part of a broad attempt at bullying them in general.
I think you have made my second point more clearly than I did. Kudos to you.
So, if you're too thick to understand that a) testing human-bound medications on animal is not appropriate as a means to see if it's good for humans and if you are too thick to understand that b) if animals are so much like us that we can learn from their reactions as if they were humans then it will imply and necessitate that we must treat them as among our own, (with rights similar to our owns) then surely you will think as bigots do and be only concerned about the immediate benefits that you can extract from the other, regardless of ethics.

The next day, when you are criticized for putting pressure on others so that they too do like you and behave like you, a bigot, by getting a jab of the animal tested product, you get to criticize your critiques as being just like you: meaningless bullies happy about themselves.

To me, that's a clear path going right down into dangerous mental illness, and I don't think an indifferent chap can see how this happens or that it has happened and is still currently ongoing. My conclusion is that most people in America are now mentally ill for supporting animal tested products by taking the vaccine and looking forward to vaccine passports.

This is the same mental illness that stems from indifference to the other and lack of empathy. Just look at the USA where tens of millions voted for Trump again last election. That's when you may realize that supporting animal cruelty may appear without consequences but you can be wrong about that.

Fortunately for thick people, they can easily reject these intelligent concepts rooted in reality that explains what's going on and simply create an alternative view that puts them at odds against real bad bullies and also insignificant ones. The real pshycos won't understand how they sowed division into their community but they surely won't cry or despair about this situation; it's not their fault...
Watch out for the hidden paradoxes around you!
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Re: Re:

Post by LuckyR »

Empiricist-Bruno wrote: November 14th, 2021, 5:10 pm
LuckyR wrote: November 7th, 2021, 2:52 am
Empiricist-Bruno wrote: November 6th, 2021, 9:39 pm
LuckyR wrote: November 6th, 2021, 3:14 pm

Several things.

First your link was to a court case that supported the jokester, that is: said that the jokes weren't bullying.

Second, you are free to water down your definition of bullying to anything that upsets someone, but be aware that it puts bullying into a category of behavior that warrants almost no notice nor reaction.

As to your last paragraph, the actual delivery of the vaccine by definition meets the local standard and thus is ethical in that context. You may find it and it's logic underpinnings immoral, but many, if not most find it perfectly moral. Agree to disagree.
The jokester wasn't on trial for bullying but for discrimination and his jokes were found not to be discrimination. I put up this link to show what it's like to be bullied, which has no legal definition, as far as I know.

To portrait my definition of bullying as "anything that upsets someone" is misrepresenting how I view bullying. I smell the strawman argument here, and the use of such arguments against anti-vaxxers is in my opinion part of a broad attempt at bullying them in general.
I think you have made my second point more clearly than I did. Kudos to you.
So, if you're too thick to understand that a) testing human-bound medications on animal is not appropriate as a means to see if it's good for humans and if you are too thick to understand that b) if animals are so much like us that we can learn from their reactions as if they were humans then it will imply and necessitate that we must treat them as among our own, (with rights similar to our owns) then surely you will think as bigots do and be only concerned about the immediate benefits that you can extract from the other, regardless of ethics.

The next day, when you are criticized for putting pressure on others so that they too do like you and behave like you, a bigot, by getting a jab of the animal tested product, you get to criticize your critiques as being just like you: meaningless bullies happy about themselves.

To me, that's a clear path going right down into dangerous mental illness, and I don't think an indifferent chap can see how this happens or that it has happened and is still currently ongoing. My conclusion is that most people in America are now mentally ill for supporting animal tested products by taking the vaccine and looking forward to vaccine passports.

This is the same mental illness that stems from indifference to the other and lack of empathy. Just look at the USA where tens of millions voted for Trump again last election. That's when you may realize that supporting animal cruelty may appear without consequences but you can be wrong about that.

Fortunately for thick people, they can easily reject these intelligent concepts rooted in reality that explains what's going on and simply create an alternative view that puts them at odds against real bad bullies and also insignificant ones. The real pshycos won't understand how they sowed division into their community but they surely won't cry or despair about this situation; it's not their fault...
Some folks just don't understand that talking about someone else actually reveals more about themselves than their target. Oh well, live and learn...
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Re: Re:

Post by AverageBozo »

AverageBozo wrote: November 4th, 2021, 10:35 am
I don’t think it’s anti-bullying sentiment that leads to most instances of anti-vaccism. Rather it is fear, a powerful human motivator, whether it be fear of an unfamiliar substance injected into the body, fear of pain inflicted by the injection, fear of loss of autonomy, fear of injury at the hands of a bully or some other fear all together.
@Empirisist Bruno,

Elsewhere in this thread, you said this argument of mine could be considered as bullying.

I am wounded by your remark.

I thought I was simply describing what I thought about the influence of a basic human emotion on anti-vaccism, rather than making any argument at all.

You apparently saw it differently. Please school me on what may have lead you to interpret my post as an argument.

I didn’t intend to bully anyone with my post. Please also school me on how my remarks might be considered as bullying, e.g. what parts of my post were offensive, who would be the target.
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Re: Re:

Post by Empiricist-Bruno »

AverageBozo wrote: November 16th, 2021, 2:12 pm
AverageBozo wrote: November 4th, 2021, 10:35 am
I don’t think it’s anti-bullying sentiment that leads to most instances of anti-vaccism. Rather it is fear, a powerful human motivator, whether it be fear of an unfamiliar substance injected into the body, fear of pain inflicted by the injection, fear of loss of autonomy, fear of injury at the hands of a bully or some other fear all together.
@Empirisist Bruno,

Elsewhere in this thread, you said this argument of mine could be considered as bullying.

I am wounded by your remark.

I thought I was simply describing what I thought about the influence of a basic human emotion on anti-vaccism, rather than making any argument at all.

You apparently saw it differently. Please school me on what may have lead you to interpret my post as an argument.

I didn’t intend to bully anyone with my post. Please also school me on how my remarks might be considered as bullying, e.g. what parts of my post were offensive, who would be the target.
Hi AverageBozo,

Sorry to wound you. didn’t intend to wound anyone with my post. Please also school me on how my remarks might be considered as wounding, e.g. what parts of my post were offensive.

As far as schooling you, yes, I can do some but schooling alone won't explain it all.

First, the group you are perceived as bullying by me are the anti-vaccine proponents. Just today, in my city, over 100 cops have lost their jobs for not revealing their positive vaccination status. Many others have similarly lost their jobs, even as they courageously kept working in the early part of the pendemic as essential workers. Now being put out of work with no pay hurts. If you can keep your job but only if you submit to medication it is a form of extortion, and extortion is not ethical and it is a form of bullying.

And your statement clearly appears to side with those who would suggest that 2% of our cops are fearful wimps, and it is likely best that they are gone now. As I read this in your writings, I deduce from it that you stand by the bullies and dismiss the position of those fighting the intimidation.

When you claim that you don't think opposing the requirement to show a proof of vaccination is motivated by an anti-bullying sentiment you are basically saying that the bullying can go on because it isn't perceived as such, and the reason it isn't being perceived as such is because you think the fact is that there is no bullying there, isn't it? Bullies never are bullies in their own mind, you know that? Their is not much of a point in trying to school them about it, but if they ask, there is no harm in trying. Thanks for asking.
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Re: Ethical Vaccine Distribution

Post by Belindi »

Events have moved on since Empiricist Bruno originally posted on this topic.

The Omicron variant shows variants tend to develop among unvaccinated populations.

Empiricist-Bruno had written:
An intelligent approach would be to target zero cases, and have a world wide approach to fighting this scourge. And you won't get that with bullies leading the world's political systems.
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Re: Ethical Vaccine Distribution

Post by Empiricist-Bruno »

Belindi wrote: December 4th, 2021, 5:05 am Events have moved on since Empiricist Bruno originally posted on this topic.

The Omicron variant shows variants tend to develop among unvaccinated populations.

Empiricist-Bruno had written:
An intelligent approach would be to target zero cases, and have a world wide approach to fighting this scourge. And you won't get that with bullies leading the world's political systems.
Here in Canada, we're actually witnessing the arrival of the Omicron variant. It all coming in here by planes as we discuss this, on international planes, the kind of flights that you can have access to only if you are vaccinated... But you say it's the non-vaccinated who are spreading it right? Those who can't and don't come here from Africa (or whatever other European country) because they aren't vaccinated are the ones spreading it around.

Good to know.

Thanks for quoting me here. It makes my day. I stand by my vision of targeting zero cases.

You know, I am fortunate that I have had to deal with a number of outbreaks of a number of parasites (cockroaches, bed bugs) and educated myself thoroughly about how to fight these organisms and became quite efficient at it. The skills that I have gained in these fights are definitely useful and transferable onto this battle that we are in right now.

But I am on my guard, afraid to help and speak out because I could lose my job given the craze going on, if I were to speak out. One thing I realized through this pandemic is that a fascist community isn't really one worth helping out. If an evil guy has fleas all over, and is firing his own medicine (a product of animal cruelty) at innocent others for his predicament, you may find it wise to try to keep a low profile in order not to draw too much attention to yourself for your own safety.

In fighting a deadly or dangerous home pest, you got to aim for all of the infestation out otherwise you need to be considered as either lacking knowledge, having inadequate mental capacities, or having a weak spine unable to resist nefarious influences. That is my self-educated (through books written by professionals) opinion which I have gained with lots of actual hands on experience.

In my opinion, people who insinuate that the non-vaccinated are spreaders of the disease (true but so do others; narrowing it down to that specific group is scapegoating) are either paid by big pharma or influenced by the propaganda of big pharma or are bullied by the will of the uneducated and manipulated majority opinion.
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Re: Ethical Vaccine Distribution

Post by LuckyR »

Empiricist-Bruno wrote: December 4th, 2021, 6:01 pm
Belindi wrote: December 4th, 2021, 5:05 am Events have moved on since Empiricist Bruno originally posted on this topic.

The Omicron variant shows variants tend to develop among unvaccinated populations.

Empiricist-Bruno had written:
An intelligent approach would be to target zero cases, and have a world wide approach to fighting this scourge. And you won't get that with bullies leading the world's political systems.
Here in Canada, we're actually witnessing the arrival of the Omicron variant. It all coming in here by planes as we discuss this, on international planes, the kind of flights that you can have access to only if you are vaccinated... But you say it's the non-vaccinated who are spreading it right? Those who can't and don't come here from Africa (or whatever other European country) because they aren't vaccinated are the ones spreading it around.

Good to know.

Thanks for quoting me here. It makes my day. I stand by my vision of targeting zero cases.

You know, I am fortunate that I have had to deal with a number of outbreaks of a number of parasites (cockroaches, bed bugs) and educated myself thoroughly about how to fight these organisms and became quite efficient at it. The skills that I have gained in these fights are definitely useful and transferable onto this battle that we are in right now.

But I am on my guard, afraid to help and speak out because I could lose my job given the craze going on, if I were to speak out. One thing I realized through this pandemic is that a fascist community isn't really one worth helping out. If an evil guy has fleas all over, and is firing his own medicine (a product of animal cruelty) at innocent others for his predicament, you may find it wise to try to keep a low profile in order not to draw too much attention to yourself for your own safety.

In fighting a deadly or dangerous home pest, you got to aim for all of the infestation out otherwise you need to be considered as either lacking knowledge, having inadequate mental capacities, or having a weak spine unable to resist nefarious influences. That is my self-educated (through books written by professionals) opinion which I have gained with lots of actual hands on experience.

In my opinion, people who insinuate that the non-vaccinated are spreaders of the disease (true but so do others; narrowing it down to that specific group is scapegoating) are either paid by big pharma or influenced by the propaganda of big pharma or are bullied by the will of the uneducated and manipulated majority opinion.
Just so you know, there is no requirement to be vaccinated to fly domestically or internationally. There is a mask mandate during the flight and many countries require testing before and/or after the flight.
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Re: Ethical Vaccine Distribution

Post by Empiricist-Bruno »

LuckyR wrote: December 5th, 2021, 1:44 am
Empiricist-Bruno wrote: December 4th, 2021, 6:01 pm
Belindi wrote: December 4th, 2021, 5:05 am Events have moved on since Empiricist Bruno originally posted on this topic.

The Omicron variant shows variants tend to develop among unvaccinated populations.

Empiricist-Bruno had written:
An intelligent approach would be to target zero cases, and have a world wide approach to fighting this scourge. And you won't get that with bullies leading the world's political systems.
Here in Canada, we're actually witnessing the arrival of the Omicron variant. It all coming in here by planes as we discuss this, on international planes, the kind of flights that you can have access to only if you are vaccinated... But you say it's the non-vaccinated who are spreading it right? Those who can't and don't come here from Africa (or whatever other European country) because they aren't vaccinated are the ones spreading it around.

Good to know.

Thanks for quoting me here. It makes my day. I stand by my vision of targeting zero cases.

You know, I am fortunate that I have had to deal with a number of outbreaks of a number of parasites (cockroaches, bed bugs) and educated myself thoroughly about how to fight these organisms and became quite efficient at it. The skills that I have gained in these fights are definitely useful and transferable onto this battle that we are in right now.

But I am on my guard, afraid to help and speak out because I could lose my job given the craze going on, if I were to speak out. One thing I realized through this pandemic is that a fascist community isn't really one worth helping out. If an evil guy has fleas all over, and is firing his own medicine (a product of animal cruelty) at innocent others for his predicament, you may find it wise to try to keep a low profile in order not to draw too much attention to yourself for your own safety.

In fighting a deadly or dangerous home pest, you got to aim for all of the infestation out otherwise you need to be considered as either lacking knowledge, having inadequate mental capacities, or having a weak spine unable to resist nefarious influences. That is my self-educated (through books written by professionals) opinion which I have gained with lots of actual hands on experience.

In my opinion, people who insinuate that the non-vaccinated are spreaders of the disease (true but so do others; narrowing it down to that specific group is scapegoating) are either paid by big pharma or influenced by the propaganda of big pharma or are bullied by the will of the uneducated and manipulated majority opinion.
Just so you know, there is no requirement to be vaccinated to fly domestically or internationally. There is a mask mandate during the flight and many countries require testing before and/or after the flight.
I just went to Canada's website about traveling eligibility regarding COVID-19. Right now, a non-Canadian can't can't fly in here from any other continent if he/she is not vaccinated and just want to spend some fun time here. That's a fact.

To me, this sounds like a vaccine is very much required to fly to my country. I understand there can be some exceptions made and are you suggesting that Omicron is coming through to Canada due to these exceptions that allow some unvaccinated people in here? If that's the case then we Canadians need to be more restricive now since we don't want Omicron here.
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Re: Ethical Vaccine Distribution

Post by LuckyR »

Empiricist-Bruno wrote: December 5th, 2021, 9:30 am
LuckyR wrote: December 5th, 2021, 1:44 am
Empiricist-Bruno wrote: December 4th, 2021, 6:01 pm
Belindi wrote: December 4th, 2021, 5:05 am Events have moved on since Empiricist Bruno originally posted on this topic.

The Omicron variant shows variants tend to develop among unvaccinated populations.

Empiricist-Bruno had written:

Here in Canada, we're actually witnessing the arrival of the Omicron variant. It all coming in here by planes as we discuss this, on international planes, the kind of flights that you can have access to only if you are vaccinated... But you say it's the non-vaccinated who are spreading it right? Those who can't and don't come here from Africa (or whatever other European country) because they aren't vaccinated are the ones spreading it around.

Good to know.

Thanks for quoting me here. It makes my day. I stand by my vision of targeting zero cases.

You know, I am fortunate that I have had to deal with a number of outbreaks of a number of parasites (cockroaches, bed bugs) and educated myself thoroughly about how to fight these organisms and became quite efficient at it. The skills that I have gained in these fights are definitely useful and transferable onto this battle that we are in right now.

But I am on my guard, afraid to help and speak out because I could lose my job given the craze going on, if I were to speak out. One thing I realized through this pandemic is that a fascist community isn't really one worth helping out. If an evil guy has fleas all over, and is firing his own medicine (a product of animal cruelty) at innocent others for his predicament, you may find it wise to try to keep a low profile in order not to draw too much attention to yourself for your own safety.

In fighting a deadly or dangerous home pest, you got to aim for all of the infestation out otherwise you need to be considered as either lacking knowledge, having inadequate mental capacities, or having a weak spine unable to resist nefarious influences. That is my self-educated (through books written by professionals) opinion which I have gained with lots of actual hands on experience.

In my opinion, people who insinuate that the non-vaccinated are spreaders of the disease (true but so do others; narrowing it down to that specific group is scapegoating) are either paid by big pharma or influenced by the propaganda of big pharma or are bullied by the will of the uneducated and manipulated majority opinion.
Just so you know, there is no requirement to be vaccinated to fly domestically or internationally. There is a mask mandate during the flight and many countries require testing before and/or after the flight.
I just went to Canada's website about traveling eligibility regarding COVID-19. Right now, a non-Canadian can't can't fly in here from any other continent if he/she is not vaccinated and just want to spend some fun time here. That's a fact.

To me, this sounds like a vaccine is very much required to fly to my country. I understand there can be some exceptions made and are you suggesting that Omicron is coming through to Canada due to these exceptions that allow some unvaccinated people in here? If that's the case then we Canadians need to be more restricive now since we don't want Omicron here.
Well, that's technically true but very incomplete. A person can fly into Canada from another country, unvaccinated if they are traveling for work or reuniting with a family member or any of a number of nontourist reasons. Therefore unvaccinated folks can definitely bring omicron into Canada (and likely have already).
"As usual... it depends."
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Re: Ethical Vaccine Distribution

Post by Belindi »

Empiricist Bruno seems to have been replying to me:
But you say it's the non-vaccinated who are spreading it right?
No, I did not say so. I said nothing about international travel.

I said variants tend to develop among unvaccinated populations. Viruses pay no attention to people's nationalities and some nations don't get enough vaccine to vaccinate everybody.
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Re: Ethical Vaccine Distribution

Post by Empiricist-Bruno »

Belindi wrote: December 6th, 2021, 6:09 am Empiricist Bruno seems to have been replying to me:
But you say it's the non-vaccinated who are spreading it right?
No, I did not say so. I said nothing about international travel.

I said variants tend to develop among unvaccinated populations. Viruses pay no attention to people's nationalities and some nations don't get enough vaccine to vaccinate everybody.
Ok, thanks for clarifying. I believe the scientific explanation for this is that whenever the virus infects a new person, there is a small chance that a mutation will occur. Therefore, wherever there are lots of new infections, there will be a greater risk of variants developing.

The way you put it, you might also feel free to say that variants tend to develop in black people (they are more likely to get new infections as they are less likely to be vaccinated in Africa). Certainly, that too would be another 100% true freak statement.

Essentially, as long as the virus isn't very much reproducing (for whatever reason) the variants are less likely to develop. We can agree about that?
Watch out for the hidden paradoxes around you!
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