A Bid for Transplant Survival

Discuss morality and ethics in this message board.
Featured Article: Philosophical Analysis of Abortion, The Right to Life, and Murder
Post Reply
WanderingGaze22
Posts: 223
Joined: June 9th, 2021, 12:39 am

A Bid for Transplant Survival

Post by WanderingGaze22 »

The scenario of this thought experiment is to have people imagine if organ donation can save more people than it would kill. Hypothetically, all individuals are assigned a number and drawn out of lottery when a donation is needed, and are expected to give up their lives to allow two or more people to live. The surgeries are successful, no real difference in killing and letting die, each life (killed or allowed to die naturally) is of equal value, and the one or two lives saved would be able to live long enough on the transplanted organs (staving off rejection and the original sickness causing their need for replacement) as to show a quantitative gain over a completely healthy (and presumable longer) life randomly chosen to be killed.

Does this seem fair and effective as opposed to having to wait for years for an ideal donor? How greatly does this affect the right to donate organs willingly? Will this effect delays due to compatibility issues?
Alias
Posts: 3119
Joined: November 26th, 2011, 8:10 pm
Favorite Philosopher: Terry Pratchett

Re: A Bid for Transplant Survival

Post by Alias »

no it doesn't
Those who can induce you to believe absurdities can induce you to commit atrocities. - Voltaire
stevie
Posts: 762
Joined: July 19th, 2021, 11:08 am

Re: A Bid for Transplant Survival

Post by stevie »

WanderingGaze22 wrote: November 15th, 2021, 3:13 am Does this seem fair and effective as opposed to having to wait for years for an ideal donor?
What measure of fairness and effectiveness do you suggest to be applied?
WanderingGaze22 wrote: November 15th, 2021, 3:13 am How greatly does this affect the right to donate organs willingly?
Either you claim this right or you negate this right through subjecting organ donation to randomness. Your question appears irrational.
mankind ... must act and reason and believe; though they are not able, by their most diligent enquiry, to satisfy themselves concerning the foundation of these operations, or to remove the objections, which may be raised against them [Hume]
User avatar
Pattern-chaser
Premium Member
Posts: 8268
Joined: September 22nd, 2019, 5:17 am
Favorite Philosopher: Cratylus
Location: England

Re: A Bid for Transplant Survival

Post by Pattern-chaser »

WanderingGaze22 wrote: November 15th, 2021, 3:13 am Hypothetically, all individuals are assigned a number and drawn out of lottery when a donation is needed, and are expected to give up their lives to allow two or more people to live.
Coercive donation of one's organs? Is that what you're getting at here? Are you asking if it's moral to kill someone and harvest their organs, because several people could be saved for each 'donor' killed? I can't believe you mean that, but that's sort of what it looks like...?
Pattern-chaser

"Who cares, wins"
User avatar
LuckyR
Moderator
Posts: 7932
Joined: January 18th, 2015, 1:16 am

Re: A Bid for Transplant Survival

Post by LuckyR »

WanderingGaze22 wrote: November 15th, 2021, 3:13 am The scenario of this thought experiment is to have people imagine if organ donation can save more people than it would kill. Hypothetically, all individuals are assigned a number and drawn out of lottery when a donation is needed, and are expected to give up their lives to allow two or more people to live. The surgeries are successful, no real difference in killing and letting die, each life (killed or allowed to die naturally) is of equal value, and the one or two lives saved would be able to live long enough on the transplanted organs (staving off rejection and the original sickness causing their need for replacement) as to show a quantitative gain over a completely healthy (and presumable longer) life randomly chosen to be killed.

Does this seem fair and effective as opposed to having to wait for years for an ideal donor? How greatly does this affect the right to donate organs willingly? Will this effect delays due to compatibility issues?
On the issue of harm vs benefit, in terms of life years lived it would likely be a net negative as folks requiring organ transplants are older and less healthy than average. In other words you'd be killing folks with many years left to save folks who are going to die soon even with a successful transplant.

Additionally, the guilt felt by recipients of these kinds of "donations" would decrease the quality of the rest of their lives.

So less years in addition to lesser quality years.

All of this completely disregards the concept of autonomy, the cornerstone of the practice of medicine.
"As usual... it depends."
WanderingGaze22
Posts: 223
Joined: June 9th, 2021, 12:39 am

Re: A Bid for Transplant Survival

Post by WanderingGaze22 »

Pattern-chaser wrote: November 15th, 2021, 8:01 am
WanderingGaze22 wrote: November 15th, 2021, 3:13 am Hypothetically, all individuals are assigned a number and drawn out of lottery when a donation is needed, and are expected to give up their lives to allow two or more people to live.
Coercive donation of one's organs? Is that what you're getting at here? Are you asking if it's moral to kill someone and harvest their organs, because several people could be saved for each 'donor' killed? I can't believe you mean that, but that's sort of what it looks like...?
Apologies, the scenario does not use force for donations, but the donor has compatible organs so the verdict for choosing not to donate can be difficult to sustain.
User avatar
Sy Borg
Site Admin
Posts: 14992
Joined: December 16th, 2013, 9:05 pm

Re: A Bid for Transplant Survival

Post by Sy Borg »

With eight billion humans seemingly getting on each others' nerves more and more, and with the remains of the natural world rapidly in decline, I am not seeing sufficient benefit to exposing innocent people to such moral and emotionally threatening situations.

If low populations were an issue, sure, but in today's scenario, no.
WanderingGaze22
Posts: 223
Joined: June 9th, 2021, 12:39 am

Re: A Bid for Transplant Survival

Post by WanderingGaze22 »

LuckyR wrote: November 15th, 2021, 3:59 pm
WanderingGaze22 wrote: November 15th, 2021, 3:13 am
Does this seem fair and effective as opposed to having to wait for years for an ideal donor? How greatly does this affect the right to donate organs willingly? Will this effect delays due to compatibility issues?
On the issue of harm vs benefit, in terms of life years lived it would likely be a net negative as folks requiring organ transplants are older and less healthy than average. In other words you'd be killing folks with many years left to save folks who are going to die soon even with a successful transplant.

Additionally, the guilt felt by recipients of these kinds of "donations" would decrease the quality of the rest of their lives.

So less years in addition to lesser quality years.

All of this completely disregards the concept of autonomy, the cornerstone of the practice of medicine.
A frequently discussed topic debated should this practice be considered. And excellent observation as well, did not think about that at all.
AverageBozo
Posts: 502
Joined: May 11th, 2021, 11:20 am

Re: A Bid for Transplant Survival

Post by AverageBozo »

WanderingGaze22 wrote: November 15th, 2021, 3:13 am The scenario of this thought experiment is to have people imagine if organ donation can save more people than it would kill. Hypothetically, all individuals are assigned a number and drawn out of lottery when a donation is needed, and are expected to give up their lives to allow two or more people to live. The surgeries are successful, no real difference in killing and letting die, each life (killed or allowed to die naturally) is of equal value, and the one or two lives saved would be able to live long enough on the transplanted organs (staving off rejection and the original sickness causing their need for replacement) as to show a quantitative gain over a completely healthy (and presumable longer) life randomly chosen to be killed.

Does this seem fair and effective as opposed to having to wait for years for an ideal donor? How greatly does this affect the right to donate organs willingly? Will this effect delays due to compatibility issues?
A person must do what is in their own best interests.
Post Reply

Return to “Ethics and Morality”

2023/2024 Philosophy Books of the Month

Entanglement - Quantum and Otherwise

Entanglement - Quantum and Otherwise
by John K Danenbarger
January 2023

Mark Victor Hansen, Relentless: Wisdom Behind the Incomparable Chicken Soup for the Soul

Mark Victor Hansen, Relentless: Wisdom Behind the Incomparable Chicken Soup for the Soul
by Mitzi Perdue
February 2023

Rediscovering the Wisdom of Human Nature: How Civilization Destroys Happiness

Rediscovering the Wisdom of Human Nature: How Civilization Destroys Happiness
by Chet Shupe
March 2023

The Unfakeable Code®

The Unfakeable Code®
by Tony Jeton Selimi
April 2023

The Book: On the Taboo Against Knowing Who You Are

The Book: On the Taboo Against Knowing Who You Are
by Alan Watts
May 2023

Killing Abel

Killing Abel
by Michael Tieman
June 2023

Reconfigurement: Reconfiguring Your Life at Any Stage and Planning Ahead

Reconfigurement: Reconfiguring Your Life at Any Stage and Planning Ahead
by E. Alan Fleischauer
July 2023

First Survivor: The Impossible Childhood Cancer Breakthrough

First Survivor: The Impossible Childhood Cancer Breakthrough
by Mark Unger
August 2023

Predictably Irrational

Predictably Irrational
by Dan Ariely
September 2023

Artwords

Artwords
by Beatriz M. Robles
November 2023

Fireproof Happiness: Extinguishing Anxiety & Igniting Hope

Fireproof Happiness: Extinguishing Anxiety & Igniting Hope
by Dr. Randy Ross
December 2023

Beyond the Golden Door: Seeing the American Dream Through an Immigrant's Eyes

Beyond the Golden Door: Seeing the American Dream Through an Immigrant's Eyes
by Ali Master
February 2024

2022 Philosophy Books of the Month

Emotional Intelligence At Work

Emotional Intelligence At Work
by Richard M Contino & Penelope J Holt
January 2022

Free Will, Do You Have It?

Free Will, Do You Have It?
by Albertus Kral
February 2022

My Enemy in Vietnam

My Enemy in Vietnam
by Billy Springer
March 2022

2X2 on the Ark

2X2 on the Ark
by Mary J Giuffra, PhD
April 2022

The Maestro Monologue

The Maestro Monologue
by Rob White
May 2022

What Makes America Great

What Makes America Great
by Bob Dowell
June 2022

The Truth Is Beyond Belief!

The Truth Is Beyond Belief!
by Jerry Durr
July 2022

Living in Color

Living in Color
by Mike Murphy
August 2022 (tentative)

The Not So Great American Novel

The Not So Great American Novel
by James E Doucette
September 2022

Mary Jane Whiteley Coggeshall, Hicksite Quaker, Iowa/National Suffragette And Her Speeches

Mary Jane Whiteley Coggeshall, Hicksite Quaker, Iowa/National Suffragette And Her Speeches
by John N. (Jake) Ferris
October 2022

In It Together: The Beautiful Struggle Uniting Us All

In It Together: The Beautiful Struggle Uniting Us All
by Eckhart Aurelius Hughes
November 2022

The Smartest Person in the Room: The Root Cause and New Solution for Cybersecurity

The Smartest Person in the Room
by Christian Espinosa
December 2022

2021 Philosophy Books of the Month

The Biblical Clock: The Untold Secrets Linking the Universe and Humanity with God's Plan

The Biblical Clock
by Daniel Friedmann
March 2021

Wilderness Cry: A Scientific and Philosophical Approach to Understanding God and the Universe

Wilderness Cry
by Dr. Hilary L Hunt M.D.
April 2021

Fear Not, Dream Big, & Execute: Tools To Spark Your Dream And Ignite Your Follow-Through

Fear Not, Dream Big, & Execute
by Jeff Meyer
May 2021

Surviving the Business of Healthcare: Knowledge is Power

Surviving the Business of Healthcare
by Barbara Galutia Regis M.S. PA-C
June 2021

Winning the War on Cancer: The Epic Journey Towards a Natural Cure

Winning the War on Cancer
by Sylvie Beljanski
July 2021

Defining Moments of a Free Man from a Black Stream

Defining Moments of a Free Man from a Black Stream
by Dr Frank L Douglas
August 2021

If Life Stinks, Get Your Head Outta Your Buts

If Life Stinks, Get Your Head Outta Your Buts
by Mark L. Wdowiak
September 2021

The Preppers Medical Handbook

The Preppers Medical Handbook
by Dr. William W Forgey M.D.
October 2021

Natural Relief for Anxiety and Stress: A Practical Guide

Natural Relief for Anxiety and Stress
by Dr. Gustavo Kinrys, MD
November 2021

Dream For Peace: An Ambassador Memoir

Dream For Peace
by Dr. Ghoulem Berrah
December 2021