Animal Rights (Chile)

[Sy Borg]

Animals are paid in food and board, the latter too often being mean to the point of torture. In that sense, one could say that their wages are kept artificially low.

Re P-C & Sculptor's discussion:

While bear bile exploitation and animal husbandry are worlds apart, other species are often akin to the Aboriginal "stolen generations", while the young are taken from their parents and raised by other families.

A clear perspective is easily achieved with a simple thought experiment, "What if it was a human?".

Compare the fates of a human slave, kept in a cage, with a tube in their gall bladder, leaching away essential body fluids with a human slave who is put to work and otherwise cared for, or put to stud.

Consider a human kept in a cage in which they can't move, fattened up, later to be eaten. That's why I don't eat pork.

How about human infant child slaves crammed into a crowded room, and fattened up so they can be eaten?

In time, it seems likely that what's left of humanity will look back on factory farming in much the same way as many today view human sacrifice and officially sanctioned slavery. A grave moral error.

[Pattern-chaser]

One of the most tragic and desolate forms of animal abuse is the market in bear Bile...

It's much worse than that, I think. To me, the most unpleasant aspect of human-originated animal abuse is that we treat them as slaves; as property to be used as we see fit, without regard for the animal itself, or its welfare. Consider a horse. It is born in captivity/slavery, forced to breed according to the whims of human slavers, forced to bear/pull heavy loads, and to carry humans, and they die in slavery/captivity. Cows, pigs, and sheep are treated the same but worse, because they also get killed and eaten too, at the pleasure and convenience of their slavers. Other, non-edible, animals are simply exterminated if they become inconvenient...

Bear bile is an obvious (and vile) form of abuse, but that which I describe is more insidious and far-reaching. Animal abuse is etched into our social — 'ethical', maybe? — DNA, to the point where we tend not even to notice that we do it, because it's so universal. We treat animals as we treat everything else in the world, with disdain and indifference. That is by far the most tragic example of animal abuse, IMO.

You've obviously never worked with horses.

The horse is just one example; all animals are our slaves. But we don't work "with" horses; they work for us. If they don't/won't, we hurt them until they do, and if they still won't, we kill them and feed them to other slave-carnivores, or to humans, in some countries.

[Pattern-chaser]

It's absurd to equate standard animal husbandry with the Bear Bile trade.

It's absurd not to compare the fates of slave-animals; I don't seek to "equate" them, but only to see the commonalities that many/most of our slave-animals experience.

[Sculptor1]

One of the most tragic and desolate forms of animal abuse is the market in bear Bile...

It's much worse than that, I think. To me, the most unpleasant aspect of human-originated animal abuse is that we treat them as slaves; as property to be used as we see fit, without regard for the animal itself, or its welfare. Consider a horse. It is born in captivity/slavery, forced to breed according to the whims of human slavers, forced to bear/pull heavy loads, and to carry humans, and they die in slavery/captivity. Cows, pigs, and sheep are treated the same but worse, because they also get killed and eaten too, at the pleasure and convenience of their slavers. Other, non-edible, animals are simply exterminated if they become inconvenient...

Bear bile is an obvious (and vile) form of abuse, but that which I describe is more insidious and far-reaching. Animal abuse is etched into our social — 'ethical', maybe? — DNA, to the point where we tend not even to notice that we do it, because it's so universal. We treat animals as we treat everything else in the world, with disdain and indifference. That is by far the most tragic example of animal abuse, IMO.

You've obviously never worked with horses.

The horse is just one example; all animals are our slaves. But we don't work "with" horses; they work for us. If they don't/won't, we hurt them until they do, and if they still won't, we kill them and feed them to other slave-carnivores, or to humans, in some countries.

Horse love to work and they love human companionship. Many horse keepers, like dog owners sacrifice mcuh for love of their animals.
Your view point is very bitter.

[Pattern-chaser]

One of the most tragic and desolate forms of animal abuse is the market in bear Bile...

It's much worse than that, I think. To me, the most unpleasant aspect of human-originated animal abuse is that we treat them as slaves; as property to be used as we see fit, without regard for the animal itself, or its welfare. Consider a horse. It is born in captivity/slavery, forced to breed according to the whims of human slavers, forced to bear/pull heavy loads, and to carry humans, and they die in slavery/captivity. Cows, pigs, and sheep are treated the same but worse, because they also get killed and eaten too, at the pleasure and convenience of their slavers. Other, non-edible, animals are simply exterminated if they become inconvenient...

Bear bile is an obvious (and vile) form of abuse, but that which I describe is more insidious and far-reaching. Animal abuse is etched into our social — 'ethical', maybe? — DNA, to the point where we tend not even to notice that we do it, because it's so universal. We treat animals as we treat everything else in the world, with disdain and indifference. That is by far the most tragic example of animal abuse, IMO.

You've obviously never worked with horses.

The horse is just one example; all animals are our slaves. But we don't work "with" horses; they work for us. If they don't/won't, we hurt them until they do, and if they still won't, we kill them and feed them to other slave-carnivores, or to humans, in some countries.

Horse love to work and they love human companionship. Many horse keepers, like dog owners sacrifice mcuh for love of their animals.
Your view point is very bitter.

"Bitter"? I would've said sympathetic and [/i]regretful[/i], but I take your point. Your view, however, is a disingenuous (that applies to all of us, not just you), euphemistic and romantic fantasy. We don't like to think of ourselves as slavers, so we tell ourselves how much better the horses lives are in our 'care'.

Of course horses like to "work". Given a choice between exercise and being penned in a cell (stall) with little or no room to move, and only stale food to eat, what would you choose? And of course horses 'love' human companionship, if the alternative is solitary confinement; loneliness; horses are naturally social and sociable herd animals, not loners. We have to remember that any preferences the horse might show are based in a context of inescapable slavery and captivity.

[Sculptor1]

the horse might show are based in a context of inescapable slavery and captivity.

I invite you to spend a day in my home and ask you who is the slave in the relationship with these darlings.

Until then you can boil your head in your own bitterness.

[GE Morton]

The horse is just one example; all animals are our slaves. But we don't work "with" horses; they work for us. If they don't/won't, we hurt them until they do, and if they still won't, we kill them and feed them to other slave-carnivores, or to humans, in some countries.

Horse love to work and they love human companionship. Many horse keepers, like dog owners sacrifice mcuh for love of their animals.
Your view point is very bitter.

Both of those claims contain kernels of truth, yet overall appear contradictory. How can they be reconciled?

[GE Morton]

Heh. I have 4 cats. I certainly seem to be the slave in those relationships.

[Sy Borg]

the horse might show are based in a context of inescapable slavery and captivity.

I invite you to spend a day in my home and ask you who is the slave in the relationship with these darlings.

image_2022-08-28_150011551.png

Until then you can boil your head in your own bitterness.

Heads like that have a hypnotic power that compels vulnerable humans to place complex lipid, protein and carbohydrate compounds into their mouthparts.

[Belindi]

Animals are paid in food and board, the latter too often being mean to the point of torture. In that sense, one could say that their wages are kept artificially low.

Re P-C & Sculptor's discussion:

While bear bile exploitation and animal husbandry are worlds apart, other species are often akin to the Aboriginal "stolen generations", while the young are taken from their parents and raised by other families.

A clear perspective is easily achieved with a simple thought experiment, "What if it was a human?".

Compare the fates of a human slave, kept in a cage, with a tube in their gall bladder, leaching away essential body fluids with a human slave who is put to work and otherwise cared for, or put to stud.

Consider a human kept in a cage in which they can't move, fattened up, later to be eaten. That's why I don't eat pork.

How about human infant child slaves crammed into a crowded room, and fattened up so they can be eaten?

In time, it seems likely that what's left of humanity will look back on factory farming in much the same way as many today view human sacrifice and officially sanctioned slavery. A grave moral error.

I hope so. But time is running out.Me too .I gave up eating dead pigs when I found out how they are born, reared and fattened.

[Sculptor1]

The horse is just one example; all animals are our slaves. But we don't work "with" horses; they work for us. If they don't/won't, we hurt them until they do, and if they still won't, we kill them and feed them to other slave-carnivores, or to humans, in some countries.

Horse love to work and they love human companionship. Many horse keepers, like dog owners sacrifice mcuh for love of their animals.
Your view point is very bitter.

Both of those claims contain kernels of truth, yet overall appear contradictory. How can they be reconciled?

We all know that animals are kept in cages. As i have said; Sun bears are kept in tiny cages with tubes connected to their gall bladders to extract bile. They live desolate existences often die of infection.
But PChaser thinks that is the same life as my puppies live and that they are "slaves"
There is only one accommodation possible; that Pchaser gets a grip on reality.

[Sculptor1]

Heh. I have 4 cats. I certainly seem to be the slave in those relationships.

Yes. Just look in their eyes, as they conspire to take over the world!!!

[Sculptor1]

the horse might show are based in a context of inescapable slavery and captivity.

I invite you to spend a day in my home and ask you who is the slave in the relationship with these darlings.

image_2022-08-28_150011551.png

Until then you can boil your head in your own bitterness.

Heads like that have a hypnotic power that compels vulnerable humans to place complex lipid, protein and carbohydrate compounds into their mouthparts.

Yes, I struggle to help them keep slim, because if I had no control they would ned up like Jabba the Hut.
The one on the left (Boffy)* the Labrador, we have had for 8 years, adopted from an animal rescue. She is now nine.
This year we were looking at the website from the rescue centre where she came from and saw Rusty, the Golden Retriever (left). His owner got cancer and was too frail to look after him. We mad a visit and he looked at me. I was immediately compelled to adopt him too. He is already 11 years old, but we thought he deserved a nice end of life home. He's actually fitter than when we adopted him and is probably going to last a long time. But he's better with us than in a cage.

So now you have a full account from the evil slave driver.

* We called her Boffy because she was so unmanagable that I compared her to a box of frogs, or a bag of ferretts, hence B.O.F or Boffy.

https://www.raystede.org/adopt/dogs/see-the-animals/

[Pattern-chaser]

PChaser thinks that is the same life as my puppies live...

Incorrect.

and that they are "slaves"

Correct. They are born, live, breed and die in (human) control, and in captivity that they cannot escape. If you don't call that slavery, what would you call it?

[Sculptor1]

PChaser thinks that is the same life as my puppies live...

Incorrect.

and that they are "slaves"

Correct. They are born, live, breed and die in (human) control, and in captivity that they cannot escape. If you don't call that slavery, what would you call it?

Is a human child the slave of the parent?