Animal Rights (Chile)

[LuckyR]

I think industries need to maximise profits via a reliable and incentivised workforce .

And who should decide how that best be done, the industries and their workers, or some third-party dictator, such as the State?

How Alfie compensates Bruno for his services is their business, and no one else's.

You forgot Bruno's agent Chauncey.

[Pattern-chaser]

This conversation displays the intense interest humans have in animal welfare. It's so heart-warming to see how engaged people are in the health and happiness of our fellow travellers on Earth. // sarcasm

All those little minds, and their mysterious social dynamics, are rapidly diminishing as ever more self-interested people cast them aside like junk. A society of humans, without a significant animal population to temper humans' endless suspiciousness, Machiavellian manoeuvrings, posturing and banality, would be hell on Earth to me. It seems that those with my views, along with other species, are a dying breed. Out with the old, in with the new, I guess.

You have just suggested to me a church that I'd join if they'd let me in.

Count me in too!

[GE Morton]

Current news story on this topic. A court in Virginia has closed down a beagle-breeding operation (the dogs are bred mainly for medical research) for animal cruelty. 4000 beagles were seized, and are being parceled out to humane organizations around the country and even overseas for adoption. Shelters in my city have taken in 41 of the dogs, and have already received 700 applications to adopt one. In California Prince Harry and Duchess Meaghan have adopted one.

[Sculptor1]

Current news story on this topic. A court in Virginia has closed down a beagle-breeding operation (the dogs are bred mainly for medical research) for animal cruelty. 4000 beagles were seized, and are being parceled out to humane organizations around the country and even overseas for adoption. Shelters in my city have taken in 41 of the dogs, and have already received 700 applications to adopt one. In California Prince Harry and Duchess Meaghan have adopted one.

Here's a face that says I am so desperate for a tab.

image_2022-08-26_173230817.png (71.24 KiB) Viewed 1087 times

[Belindi]

GEMorton wrote:

How Alfie compensates Bruno for his services is their business, and no one else's.

Slaves are compensated by being fed enough to keep them working. Would you have no employment legislation at all? Not even a little rule?

[Sy Borg]

Ha! They can keep the beagles, as far as I am concerned. They are as undisciplined as they are adorable. At some stage, every beagle owner I have ever known ends up running off far into the distance calling the dog's name. What if the trail leads to a road? "What are roads?" asks the beagle. Meanwhile the beagle's human has just about had a coronary watching their fur baby within metres of SUVs whizzing by.

I prefer a dog that you can trust off-leash anywhere.


Thus spake the apparent founder of the Church of ...? I just think we'd all be better off if our urban and suburban environments allowed for more non-human life. Urban environments are basically deserts containing mostly caves and caches, with occasional green patches. It's an odd choice, if it is a choice. Maybe humans are compelled to replicate the dry savannas from which they emerged?

[Belindi]

True of beagles as a breed. Thank goodness the vivisectionists don't require collies or other shepherd sorts! Sometimes I visualise humans like devils in hell in those old paintings, who will cease their operations for no cruelty.

[Sculptor1]

Ha! They can keep the beagles, as far as I am concerned. They are as undisciplined as they are adorable. At some stage, every beagle owner I have ever known ends up running off far into the distance calling the dog's name. What if the trail leads to a road? "What are roads?" asks the beagle. Meanwhile the beagle's human has just about had a coronary watching their fur baby within metres of SUVs whizzing by.

I prefer a dog that you can trust off-leash anywhere.


Thus spake the apparent founder of the Church of ...? I just think we'd all be better off if our urban and suburban environments allowed for more non-human life. Urban environments are basically deserts containing mostly caves and caches, with occasional green patches. It's an odd choice, if it is a choice. Maybe humans are compelled to replicate the dry savannas from which they emerged?

All dogs are godlike creatures. Beagles just need extra special care to train them, but they are trainable.
They do not deserve to get lung cancer.

[Sculptor1]

One of the most tragic and desoloate forms of animal abuse is the market in bear BIle, practiced in places like Laos, and China for their "medicine"..

Snatch a baby sun bear from the wild, and cage it so that it cannot move. Open up its abdomen and attach a pipe to its gall bladder. The pipe stays in place but the bear cannot move, and is fed through the cage.

I submit that the more intelligent an animal is the more it is capable of suffering. Sun Bears are more intelligent than dogs, or at least as.
Imagine for a moment the constant nagging pain of the surgeries needed to maintain the tube, and the infections that follow.
The myth of so-called "traditional medicine" is so strong that they put the dried bile powder in to toothpaste, and hair gel.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6vN-oDd92Dg

[Pattern-chaser]

One of the most tragic and desolate forms of animal abuse is the market in bear Bile...

It's much worse than that, I think. To me, the most unpleasant aspect of human-originated animal abuse is that we treat them as slaves; as property to be used as we see fit, without regard for the animal itself, or its welfare. Consider a horse. It is born in captivity/slavery, forced to breed according to the whims of human slavers, forced to bear/pull heavy loads, and to carry humans, and they die in slavery/captivity. Cows, pigs, and sheep are treated the same but worse, because they also get killed and eaten too, at the pleasure and convenience of their slavers. Other, non-edible, animals are simply exterminated if they become inconvenient...

Bear bile is an obvious (and vile) form of abuse, but that which I describe is more insidious and far-reaching. Animal abuse is etched into our social — 'ethical', maybe? — DNA, to the point where we tend not even to notice that we do it, because it's so universal. We treat animals as we treat everything else in the world, with disdain and indifference. That is by far the most tragic example of animal abuse, IMO.

[Sculptor1]

One of the most tragic and desolate forms of animal abuse is the market in bear Bile...

It's much worse than that, I think. To me, the most unpleasant aspect of human-originated animal abuse is that we treat them as slaves; as property to be used as we see fit, without regard for the animal itself, or its welfare. Consider a horse. It is born in captivity/slavery, forced to breed according to the whims of human slavers, forced to bear/pull heavy loads, and to carry humans, and they die in slavery/captivity. Cows, pigs, and sheep are treated the same but worse, because they also get killed and eaten too, at the pleasure and convenience of their slavers. Other, non-edible, animals are simply exterminated if they become inconvenient...

Bear bile is an obvious (and vile) form of abuse, but that which I describe is more insidious and far-reaching. Animal abuse is etched into our social — 'ethical', maybe? — DNA, to the point where we tend not even to notice that we do it, because it's so universal. We treat animals as we treat everything else in the world, with disdain and indifference. That is by far the most tragic example of animal abuse, IMO.

You've obviously never worked with horses.

[Sculptor1]

One of the most tragic and desolate forms of animal abuse is the market in bear Bile...

It's much worse than that, I think. To me, the most unpleasant aspect of human-originated animal abuse is that we treat them as slaves; as property to be used as we see fit, without regard for the animal itself, or its welfare. Consider a horse. It is born in captivity/slavery, forced to breed according to the whims of human slavers, forced to bear/pull heavy loads, and to carry humans, and they die in slavery/captivity. Cows, pigs, and sheep are treated the same but worse, because they also get killed and eaten too, at the pleasure and convenience of their slavers. Other, non-edible, animals are simply exterminated if they become inconvenient...

Bear bile is an obvious (and vile) form of abuse, but that which I describe is more insidious and far-reaching. Animal abuse is etched into our social — 'ethical', maybe? — DNA, to the point where we tend not even to notice that we do it, because it's so universal. We treat animals as we treat everything else in the world, with disdain and indifference. That is by far the most tragic example of animal abuse, IMO.

It's absurd to equate standard animal husbandry with the Bear Bile trade.

[GE Morton]

GEMorton wrote:

How Alfie compensates Bruno for his services is their business, and no one else's.

Slaves are compensated by being fed enough to keep them working.

Not relevant. Bargaining presupposes a relationship entered into voluntarily by all parties.

Would you have no employment legislation at all? Not even a little rule?

Beyond some restrictions on employment of young children, none. If the parties are competent adults then the terms upon which they enter into relationships are no one else's business.

[LuckyR]

GEMorton wrote:

How Alfie compensates Bruno for his services is their business, and no one else's.

Slaves are compensated by being fed enough to keep them working.

Not relevant. Bargaining presupposes a relationship entered into voluntarily by all parties.

Would you have no employment legislation at all? Not even a little rule?

Beyond some restrictions on employment of young children, none. If the parties are competent adults then the terms upon which they enter into relationships are no one else's business.

Is it okay for employers to collude to keep wages artificially low?

[GE Morton]

Is it okay for employers to collude to keep wages artificially low?

No collusion can keep wages artificially low. Employers are competing against, not only against others in their own industry, but in all industries. If employers in one industry collude to fix wages they begin losing workers to other industries, and will be forced to raise wages. Laws against such behavior will be superfluous and, like anti-trust laws, usually counter-productive. Markets are self-correcting.