The real basis of Antinatalism is that no one should be forced to do what someone else wants for no good reason
-
- Posts: 36
- Joined: November 21st, 2019, 9:09 pm
The real basis of Antinatalism is that no one should be forced to do what someone else wants for no good reason
1. Some people think life is great, some hate it. Either way it's all subjective and we can't build an ethical system on people's subjective preferences and desires. Whether or not people should procreate cannot be determined based on this.
2. Some people believe the pleasures someone may experience in life will outweigh the suffering experienced, but again it's too subjective.
3. Some people try to justify the potential suffering the unborn may experience as an excuse for believing it's ok to reproduce. But this argument is self cancelling because if suffering is so great then why don't thse people purposely inflict pain on themselves? Why don't they set themselves on fire or stab themselves if they think suffering is ok? People who try to justify suffering are hypocrites because if the human population went extinct I'd imagine they would be upset at that news - but being upset is a good thing according to them. So why is that suffering unacceptable but the suffering a terminally ill cancer patient a good thing according to a pro-natalist.
-In my opinion the real argument in favor of Antinatalism is that someone's beliefs and values should not (and cannot) be forced on other people. The only thing that people can be justifiably 'forced' to do is abide by laws that are designed to prevent other people's rights and property from being infringed on. Parents normally want to impose their values and Ideology on their offspring and get angry when their kids disagree with them or are just different from what they wanted them to be. This is includes forced mental 'healthcare' on them when they are 'depressed' if they hate life. Their hating life is a valid perspective and opinion, in the same way their parents subjective perspective is that life is great and wonderful. Just like some people like certain foods and some people hate them - it's all subjective.
The harsh reality is that most parents do not care about their kids, but rather they care about some imaginary ideals of what they want their kids to be and believe.
If someone knew ahead of time the kids had would stand against everything they stand for and would hate them for whatever reason then they would most certainly decide against reproducing. Because in this scenario they do nothing to benefit your ego and your ideology - which are the two things motivating you to reproduce.
- Leontiskos
- Posts: 695
- Joined: July 20th, 2021, 11:27 pm
- Favorite Philosopher: Aristotle and Aquinas
Re: The real basis of Antinatalism is that no one should be forced to do what someone else wants for no good reason
P1: "No one should tell others what to do."Leibniz1699 wrote: ↑December 20th, 2022, 11:48 pmThe real basis of Antinatalism is that no one should be forced to do what someone else wants for no good reason.
P2: "No one should be forced to do what someone else wants."
P3: "No one should be forced to do what someone else wants for no good reason."
P1 cannot be the basis for Antinatalism because P1 excludes Antinatalism. Antinatalism is a normative position which holds that humans ought not procreate, and therefore Antinatalists tell others what to do.
P2 adds the notion of coercion, which presumably doesn't make any difference. I am sure there are some Antinatalists who favor coercion and others who do not. Antinatalism is not incompatible with coercion.
P3 adds the notion of a "good reason," which is usually superfluous or question-begging. Most every argument will be about whether such-and-such a reason is a good reason or not. No one would disagree with P3 as stated, for it is tautologous, and provides no support for Antinatalism.
Claims like P1 (and P2 and P3) exclude Antinatalism and Pronatalism, instead entailing a neutral position which takes neither side.
Socrates: He's like that, Hippias, not refined. He's garbage, he cares about nothing but the truth.
- ahaahoy
- New Trial Member
- Posts: 8
- Joined: December 18th, 2022, 5:31 am
Re: The real basis of Antinatalism is that no one should be forced to do what someone else wants for no good reason
"Below are three common arguments against antinatalism and why these arguments cannot be justified:"
comment:
you cite 3 example of "Unfavorable/against " and seems to "conclude" cannot be justified.
on the next paragraph you mentioned a "Favorable/ Pro"
quote:
In my opinion the real argument in favor of Antinatalism is that someone's beliefs and values should not (and cannot) be forced on other people.
comment:
>>> not sure of the post, is it seeking justification/Favorable/Pro for antinatalism ?
>>> or seeking to refute "Unfavorable/ against/anti| antinatalism ?
>>> if the second item, i can post additional for refute
- Pattern-chaser
- Premium Member
- Posts: 8271
- Joined: September 22nd, 2019, 5:17 am
- Favorite Philosopher: Cratylus
- Location: England
Re: The real basis of Antinatalism is that no one should be forced to do what someone else wants for no good reason
This argument is surely — and simply — an American-centric, Libertarian, political point? It applies to almost everything, and does not seem specific to antinatalism...Leibniz1699 wrote: ↑December 20th, 2022, 11:48 pm In my opinion the real argument in favor of Antinatalism is that someone's beliefs and values should not (and cannot) be forced on other people.
"Who cares, wins"
-
- Posts: 36
- Joined: November 21st, 2019, 9:09 pm
Re: The real basis of Antinatalism is that no one should be forced to do what someone else wants for no good reason
Antinatalism is against the use of force - in this case against the force of creating someone and making them act they way they want them to actLeontiskos wrote: ↑December 21st, 2022, 12:30 amP1: "No one should tell others what to do."Leibniz1699 wrote: ↑December 20th, 2022, 11:48 pmThe real basis of Antinatalism is that no one should be forced to do what someone else wants for no good reason.
P2: "No one should be forced to do what someone else wants."
P3: "No one should be forced to do what someone else wants for no good reason."
P1 cannot be the basis for Antinatalism because P1 excludes Antinatalism. Antinatalism is a normative position which holds that humans ought not procreate, and therefore Antinatalists tell others what to do.
P2 adds the notion of coercion, which presumably doesn't make any difference. I am sure there are some Antinatalists who favor coercion and others who do not. Antinatalism is not incompatible with coercion.
P3 adds the notion of a "good reason," which is usually superfluous or question-begging. Most every argument will be about whether such-and-such a reason is a good reason or not. No one would disagree with P3 as stated, for it is tautologous, and provides no support for Antinatalism.
Claims like P1 (and P2 and P3) exclude Antinatalism and Pronatalism, instead entailing a neutral position which takes neither side.
2023/2024 Philosophy Books of the Month
Mark Victor Hansen, Relentless: Wisdom Behind the Incomparable Chicken Soup for the Soul
by Mitzi Perdue
February 2023
Rediscovering the Wisdom of Human Nature: How Civilization Destroys Happiness
by Chet Shupe
March 2023