Hypothetically, would you torture a baby as a means to attempt to save many people?

Discuss morality and ethics in this message board.
Featured Article: Philosophical Analysis of Abortion, The Right to Life, and Murder
Post Reply
User avatar
frza45
New Trial Member
Posts: 2
Joined: December 31st, 2022, 6:25 am

Hypothetically, would you torture a baby as a means to attempt to save many people?

Post by frza45 »

This is kind of a ridiculous question we got asked, but I agree it has some merit:

So a few years ago back in a philosophy class I took for college we got asked (As best I remember it): "There is a bomb in the mall of America and you have the person who placed it's baby, but he will not say where the bomb is. What do you do?" So one of the possibilities was to torture the baby and hope that the bad bomber guy gives up the location of the bomb. - Without much thought I blurted out that that was the option I would go with. Everyone looks at me like I have 3 heads. - I mean the baby did nothing wrong and in hindsight I feel like such an a**. I also added that I did not believe the baby would even remember that happening to him/her. (I cannot remember being a baby myself) I think now that if the baby did remember it it would likely make for a much more dangerous situation because that baby would have that type of trauma and may end up a serial killer or a sociopath or something. The other students in the class really did not give their point of view and just kind of judged me.

This has been back on my mind a lot lately for some reason. I'm thinking that it may go back to that philosophical question of "would you kill baby Hitler"? - Would one life justify possibly saving thousands or millions of lives? Thinking of something else I learned from that class, is the best thing always the thing that helps as many people as possible?

To further this question a bit, what if Hitler definitely had a child and the allies were able to get ahold of him? IMHO I'm not even sure if killing Hitler himself at the height of the war would have ended the war. Nazi Germany had so many complicit people in it.

I really am not sure what I would do now thinking about all of this. I can assure you I don't have the intention or desire to go around harming babies(or anyone for that matter). Like I said with further thought and insight, I feel that it's obvious that torturing a baby could turn them into a monster later in life and you are a bad person if you do that. But I feel potentially saving thousands of lives might outweigh that for me.

On another note: if you don't remember something at all did you really experience it? (I have a very bad memory.)

This is a hard thing for me to fully wrap my head around and I don't want to feel like a d*** for saying what I said. - What would some other people do? To me, this is not just black and white, there is a large grey area there.

Thanks - I am mainly asking because I would like differing points of view.
Alan Masterman
Posts: 219
Joined: March 27th, 2011, 8:03 am

Re: Hypothetically, would you torture a baby as a means to attempt to save many people?

Post by Alan Masterman »

Firstly, as a matter of historical record, the war could have ended earlier than it did, but the USA and Britain agreed that they would accept nothing less than unconditional surrender. This meant that Germany had little to lose by fighting on to the bitter end.

Grammatically, your original question is not quite fully intelligible, but I assume you are saying that the person who placed the bomb has placed it with her or his baby. Your problem now is to decide which ethical system you subscribe to. If you are a Utilitarian, you will decide to torture the baby (as indeed you did), because (assuming the bomber caves) this is likely to involve the smallest amount of suffering among all of the people involved in this context. On the other hand, if you are a Kantian, your first priority might be to save the baby, because your immediate priority will be the "duty of care"; other bystanders can run away if you warn them, but the baby can't. If you are a Christian, of course, you will decide to place your own body between the bomb, the baby, and everybody else.
User avatar
frza45
New Trial Member
Posts: 2
Joined: December 31st, 2022, 6:25 am

Re: Hypothetically, would you torture a baby as a means to attempt to save many people?

Post by frza45 »

Thanks for the reply. Sorry, this is a bit confusing. I was thinking more that you possessed the baby but not the bomb and used the baby as a sort of blackmail. I think you got the jest of the question though. Basically, does a lot of pain in one completely innocent life justify less pain in many lives. This has obviously been asked a lot but I have been thinking about it again. I have changed my mind lately and to me now it is just very offensive to harm something so innocent and possibly turn it into a monster.
What school do you personally belong to on this and why?

What do you think about the memory theory? If you don't remember an event at all and nobody else does did it really happen? If it happened does it even matter now?
User avatar
psycho
Posts: 132
Joined: January 23rd, 2021, 5:33 pm

Re: Hypothetically, would you torture a baby as a means to attempt to save many people?

Post by psycho »

frza45 wrote: December 31st, 2022, 6:31 am This is kind of a ridiculous question we got asked, but I agree it has some merit:

So a few years ago back in a philosophy class I took for college we got asked (As best I remember it): "There is a bomb in the mall of America and you have the person who placed it's baby, but he will not say where the bomb is. What do you do?" So one of the possibilities was to torture the baby and hope that the bad bomber guy gives up the location of the bomb. - Without much thought I blurted out that that was the option I would go with. Everyone looks at me like I have 3 heads. - I mean the baby did nothing wrong and in hindsight I feel like such an a**. I also added that I did not believe the baby would even remember that happening to him/her. (I cannot remember being a baby myself) I think now that if the baby did remember it it would likely make for a much more dangerous situation because that baby would have that type of trauma and may end up a serial killer or a sociopath or something. The other students in the class really did not give their point of view and just kind of judged me.

This has been back on my mind a lot lately for some reason. I'm thinking that it may go back to that philosophical question of "would you kill baby Hitler"? - Would one life justify possibly saving thousands or millions of lives? Thinking of something else I learned from that class, is the best thing always the thing that helps as many people as possible?

To further this question a bit, what if Hitler definitely had a child and the allies were able to get ahold of him? IMHO I'm not even sure if killing Hitler himself at the height of the war would have ended the war. Nazi Germany had so many complicit people in it.

I really am not sure what I would do now thinking about all of this. I can assure you I don't have the intention or desire to go around harming babies(or anyone for that matter). Like I said with further thought and insight, I feel that it's obvious that torturing a baby could turn them into a monster later in life and you are a bad person if you do that. But I feel potentially saving thousands of lives might outweigh that for me.

On another note: if you don't remember something at all did you really experience it? (I have a very bad memory.)

This is a hard thing for me to fully wrap my head around and I don't want to feel like a d*** for saying what I said. - What would some other people do? To me, this is not just black and white, there is a large grey area there.

Thanks - I am mainly asking because I would like differing points of view.
Interesting. What would be the limit?

What would humans not do even if it meant the survival of our species?

My intuition is that humans do not have a moral limit that prevents them from doing what is necessary to survive as a species.
amorphos_ii
Posts: 297
Joined: October 2nd, 2022, 1:19 am

Re: Hypothetically, would you torture a baby as a means to attempt to save many people?

Post by amorphos_ii »

Just no to all these such questions. Don’t do an evil because then it is you doing an evil act, not to stop an evil from occurring or potentially so. Just do no evil for any moral reasoning or et al ~ should be ones ethic.
Post Reply

Return to “Ethics and Morality”

2023/2024 Philosophy Books of the Month

Entanglement - Quantum and Otherwise

Entanglement - Quantum and Otherwise
by John K Danenbarger
January 2023

Mark Victor Hansen, Relentless: Wisdom Behind the Incomparable Chicken Soup for the Soul

Mark Victor Hansen, Relentless: Wisdom Behind the Incomparable Chicken Soup for the Soul
by Mitzi Perdue
February 2023

Rediscovering the Wisdom of Human Nature: How Civilization Destroys Happiness

Rediscovering the Wisdom of Human Nature: How Civilization Destroys Happiness
by Chet Shupe
March 2023

The Unfakeable Code®

The Unfakeable Code®
by Tony Jeton Selimi
April 2023

The Book: On the Taboo Against Knowing Who You Are

The Book: On the Taboo Against Knowing Who You Are
by Alan Watts
May 2023

Killing Abel

Killing Abel
by Michael Tieman
June 2023

Reconfigurement: Reconfiguring Your Life at Any Stage and Planning Ahead

Reconfigurement: Reconfiguring Your Life at Any Stage and Planning Ahead
by E. Alan Fleischauer
July 2023

First Survivor: The Impossible Childhood Cancer Breakthrough

First Survivor: The Impossible Childhood Cancer Breakthrough
by Mark Unger
August 2023

Predictably Irrational

Predictably Irrational
by Dan Ariely
September 2023

Artwords

Artwords
by Beatriz M. Robles
November 2023

Fireproof Happiness: Extinguishing Anxiety & Igniting Hope

Fireproof Happiness: Extinguishing Anxiety & Igniting Hope
by Dr. Randy Ross
December 2023

Beyond the Golden Door: Seeing the American Dream Through an Immigrant's Eyes

Beyond the Golden Door: Seeing the American Dream Through an Immigrant's Eyes
by Ali Master
February 2024

2022 Philosophy Books of the Month

Emotional Intelligence At Work

Emotional Intelligence At Work
by Richard M Contino & Penelope J Holt
January 2022

Free Will, Do You Have It?

Free Will, Do You Have It?
by Albertus Kral
February 2022

My Enemy in Vietnam

My Enemy in Vietnam
by Billy Springer
March 2022

2X2 on the Ark

2X2 on the Ark
by Mary J Giuffra, PhD
April 2022

The Maestro Monologue

The Maestro Monologue
by Rob White
May 2022

What Makes America Great

What Makes America Great
by Bob Dowell
June 2022

The Truth Is Beyond Belief!

The Truth Is Beyond Belief!
by Jerry Durr
July 2022

Living in Color

Living in Color
by Mike Murphy
August 2022 (tentative)

The Not So Great American Novel

The Not So Great American Novel
by James E Doucette
September 2022

Mary Jane Whiteley Coggeshall, Hicksite Quaker, Iowa/National Suffragette And Her Speeches

Mary Jane Whiteley Coggeshall, Hicksite Quaker, Iowa/National Suffragette And Her Speeches
by John N. (Jake) Ferris
October 2022

In It Together: The Beautiful Struggle Uniting Us All

In It Together: The Beautiful Struggle Uniting Us All
by Eckhart Aurelius Hughes
November 2022

The Smartest Person in the Room: The Root Cause and New Solution for Cybersecurity

The Smartest Person in the Room
by Christian Espinosa
December 2022

2021 Philosophy Books of the Month

The Biblical Clock: The Untold Secrets Linking the Universe and Humanity with God's Plan

The Biblical Clock
by Daniel Friedmann
March 2021

Wilderness Cry: A Scientific and Philosophical Approach to Understanding God and the Universe

Wilderness Cry
by Dr. Hilary L Hunt M.D.
April 2021

Fear Not, Dream Big, & Execute: Tools To Spark Your Dream And Ignite Your Follow-Through

Fear Not, Dream Big, & Execute
by Jeff Meyer
May 2021

Surviving the Business of Healthcare: Knowledge is Power

Surviving the Business of Healthcare
by Barbara Galutia Regis M.S. PA-C
June 2021

Winning the War on Cancer: The Epic Journey Towards a Natural Cure

Winning the War on Cancer
by Sylvie Beljanski
July 2021

Defining Moments of a Free Man from a Black Stream

Defining Moments of a Free Man from a Black Stream
by Dr Frank L Douglas
August 2021

If Life Stinks, Get Your Head Outta Your Buts

If Life Stinks, Get Your Head Outta Your Buts
by Mark L. Wdowiak
September 2021

The Preppers Medical Handbook

The Preppers Medical Handbook
by Dr. William W Forgey M.D.
October 2021

Natural Relief for Anxiety and Stress: A Practical Guide

Natural Relief for Anxiety and Stress
by Dr. Gustavo Kinrys, MD
November 2021

Dream For Peace: An Ambassador Memoir

Dream For Peace
by Dr. Ghoulem Berrah
December 2021