There is nothing Good or Bad

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Samhains
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There is nothing Good or Bad

Post by Samhains »

There is nothing Good or Bad, only thinking makes it so. There are only two human emotions. PAIN and PLEASURE. All els fall into one of these two catagorys. You are either a giver of pain, or a giver of pleasure. They are both experiances of the physical world. Neither is Good or bad, only thinking makes it so.

Both Pain and pleasure can feel Good and Bad.
Both Light and Darkness can be Good and Bad.
In the mind of simple humans.

If one has sensitive eyes then dim light would be best, Thus Good, and bright light would be blinding, Thus Bad.

If one had their leg pulled from the socket that PAIN could be seen as BAD- But the PAIN it takes to pop it back in may feel so GOOD, that it is GOOD.

Nothing is good or bad only thinking makes it so*
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strike
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Post by strike »

good point sam, there is only tools to perform within either the good or bad realms but a good tool can be used for bad (or vise versa)all depends on what the tool is used on

different equations (between tools and scenarios/situations) will have different outcomes that could be in either realm (good or bad)
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Samhains
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Post by Samhains »

But there is not Good Or Bad only thinking makes it so. What you precieve as BAD I may precieve as GOOD.
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strike
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Post by strike »

nothing you do is good or bad just the effect of the action, the effect can still be good or bad because the effect depends on who percieved it

good or bad depends on perception wich is a thought
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Samhains
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Post by Samhains »

strike wrote:good or bad depends on perception wich is a thought
...and thoughts are not bad..there for nothing is Good or bad only thinking makes it so.

It is only because if the light that you know of the darkness, it is only because of evil and badness that makes you distinquish between the GOOD and BAD. All Based on THOUGHT, and no thought is good or bad.
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strike
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Post by strike »

to have a thought you must think
think comes before thought therefore you must chose good or bad in your on perception before haveing the thought
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Samhains
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Post by Samhains »

strike wrote:therefore you must chose good or bad in your on perception..
Your perceptions are based on thought.
A thought is not Good or Bad. Only your perception, your thinking makes it so..

Your perception is not reality, only your perception of it.
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strike
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Post by strike »

therefore nobody sees the true reality we are all bound by our own perceptions from seeing un-biased truth
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shinobi-13
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Re: There is nothing Good or Bad

Post by shinobi-13 »

Samhains wrote:There is nothing Good or Bad, only thinking makes it so. There are only two human emotions. PAIN and PLEASURE. All els fall into one of these two catagorys. You are either a giver of pain, or a giver of pleasure. They are both experiances of the physical world. Neither is Good or bad, only thinking makes it so.

Both Pain and pleasure can feel Good and Bad.
Both Light and Darkness can be Good and Bad.
In the mind of simple humans.

If one has sensitive eyes then dim light would be best, Thus Good, and bright light would be blinding, Thus Bad.

If one had their leg pulled from the socket that PAIN could be seen as BAD- But the PAIN it takes to pop it back in may feel so GOOD, that it is GOOD.

Nothing is good or bad only thinking makes it so*
this is exactly what epicurus said...
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Samhains
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Post by Samhains »

Ok thanks for that shinobi-13 .. He said that? I had no idea who he was till I just did a wiki on him. As novice as that may sound to some :)

:arrow: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Epicurus
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shinobi-13
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Post by shinobi-13 »

epicurus is one of my favourite ancient philosophers. He is the ancient greek hippie... (Diogenes the Synope is the punk...lol)
DanteAzrael
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Post by DanteAzrael »

First off: Your point is made about personal preferences and sensory responses to certain feelings that do differ between human beings. Therefore, it does not apply to anything ethically. The example does not exist in ethics because you're not talking about it...you're basically discussing metaphysics in dealing with individual perceptions...which, by the way, are not based on thought, but based on reality. To think, you must first perceive and ,for you to perceive, something must first exist.

Secondly, Good and Bad exist even in your example because it contradicts itself. If they do not exist, then the feeling is neither good or bad...it most likely would not exist itself. You cannot claim they don't exist, but then insist that they exist on an individual perceptual level. I understand when you try to say it is subjective...Either way, it exists whether or not it is an absolute or a subjective experience.

Also, if no thought is good and bad, but thinking makes it good and bad...what does imply? Another contradiction. If you can think in terms of good and bad, then a thought can be good or bad. If you can perceive on an individual basis in the terms of good and bad at all...a thought can be good or bad...and it would also bring good or bad into existence depending on the action taken by the individual.
When a man declares: "There are no blacks and whites [in morality]" he is making a psychological confession, and what he means is: "I am unwilling to be wholly good—and please don't regard me as wholly evil!" - Ayn Rand
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shinobi-13
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Post by shinobi-13 »

DanteAzrael wrote:First off: Your point is made about personal preferences and sensory responses to certain feelings that do differ between human beings. Therefore, it does not apply to anything ethically. The example does not exist in ethics because you're not talking about it...you're basically discussing metaphysics in dealing with individual perceptions...which, by the way, are not based on thought, but based on reality. To think, you must first perceive and ,for you to perceive, something must first exist.

Secondly, Good and Bad exist even in your example because it contradicts itself. If they do not exist, then the feeling is neither good or bad...it most likely would not exist itself. You cannot claim they don't exist, but then insist that they exist on an individual perceptual level. I understand when you try to say it is subjective...Either way, it exists whether or not it is an absolute or a subjective experience.

Also, if no thought is good and bad, but thinking makes it good and bad...what does imply? Another contradiction. If you can think in terms of good and bad, then a thought can be good or bad. If you can perceive on an individual basis in the terms of good and bad at all...a thought can be good or bad...and it would also bring good or bad into existence depending on the action taken by the individual.
I think what Samhains would mean is that good and bad DON'T EXIST. But what we consider of being good and bad- the concept and real motif of it, could be better interpretted as plesure (hedony) and pain [dependent psychologically, indepensent physically; sadism, mazochism, suicide etc). just Think of it.
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Samhains
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Post by Samhains »

DanteAzrael wrote:First off: Your point is made about personal preferences and sensory responses to certain feelings that do differ between human beings.
The point you did mis though DanteAzrael is that there are only pain and pleasure, how your sensory responses interprate them is your right some sort of personal preference, personal perceptions, but you are still feeling pain and pleasure, like all and any human. The one thing that binds us all is the ability to understand pain and pleasure.

And The ethics and morals come into play when one decides to make something or the other Good or Bad. Like to say pain is bad, or pleasure is good.

Morals and ethics come into play when I say it is bad for a man to have more than one wife because I precieve it as BAD, but another does not.
Thus my ethical point stil stands that there is nothing good or bad, only thinking..personal preferences..personal perceptions make it so.

Ethics are all in the mind, as is the concept of niether good nor bad.
DanteAzrael
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Post by DanteAzrael »

Your point still contradicts itself when you claim nothing is good or bad when people can perceive good and bad. What you need to change it to is good and bad is subjective to each individual's perception. Though, that would still be quite a stupid statement.

Do you think perceptions are just non-reality based, non-thinking actions that just pop up without any process at all and with nothing to perceive? Do you think these concepts pop into our heads by osmosis without a standard to which it is judged by?

As I said, before you can think, you must first perceive what exists and before you can perceive what exists, something must exist. For you to perceive Good and Bad and conceptualize it, it must exist. Otherwise, there would not be a discussion about since the concept and the words would not be in existence for us to use. To look at things and say "Oh, it's neither good or bad" is to basically say "Oh, he bears no responsibility and he knows not what he does so it's okay. No one can tell him he's wrong or immoral for his actions because it doesn't exist!"

The reason why I told you contradicted yourself, is when even trying to tell us Good and Bad do not exist, you claimed they were subjective and based on each person's perception...which still means good and bad exists, but that there is no universal standard.

In general, it is still a metaphysical debate first because one must first decide that something exists...or doesn't...and then ethical...The amusing thing to me is that metaphysically you deny the existence of good or bad, but then claim they exist on a subjective level ethically and that no one can claim a standard...not voiding the existence of good and bad...but merely saying no one has the right tell anyone what is good or bad, i.e. No one has the right to make moral judgments.

See the contradiction yet, or still lost?

And, as a staunch Objectivist...all I can say is contradictions cannot exist...So, it is either good and bad exist metaphysically and ethically, or they do not...but you have to pick one. Because all you're basically saying is...No, they do not exist...but yes, people perceive it. How can you perceive something that does not exist?
When a man declares: "There are no blacks and whites [in morality]" he is making a psychological confession, and what he means is: "I am unwilling to be wholly good—and please don't regard me as wholly evil!" - Ayn Rand
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