Is there anything worse than evil?

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Dukedoon
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Re: Is there anything worse than evil?

Post by Dukedoon »

What does "evil" mean to begin with?
I think "evil" is a recognized consciousness that acts harmful or irresponsible to us (beyond the borders of recognized morality) and we feel hatred and fear toward it. And exaggerating that, we imagine how it ESSENTIALLY IS AND THINKS/FELLS in a wierd way (I wouldn't say "unrealistic").

But I don't understand what you mean by "worse than evil".
"Evil" is a concept or a spectrum (like "the real numbers")
It's not "a certain amount of being evil".
If you mean what's worse than something like "the devil", I would say I don't believe in such existence; For anything evil, there can be something more evil (like there is no number "infinity")

But I can say that the concept of "BAD" is more general than "EVIL" and contains it. (if that's what you mean?!)

And of course, there is co-existence! And is has no contradiction with competition.
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Quizzical18
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Re: Is there anything worse than evil?

Post by Quizzical18 »

Evil has no limit so there wouldn't be something worse than evil except more evil.
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Misty
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Re:

Post by Misty »

Demystified wrote:
Shane Hanley wrote:Demystified wrote:

"The fact that fellow atheists I have met still believe in the very definitions of "good" and "evil" even without a god makes me want to laugh."

The concept of good or evil pertains (even without the acknowledgment of God) to civility. Once the element of coexistence is involved, then behavioural parameter must be defined. A person living in their own "world" is not subjected to the rules of mankind.
The concept of good or evil pertains (even without the acknowledgment of God) to civility. Once the element of coexistence is involved, then behavioural parameter must be defined. A person living in their own "world" is not subjected to the rules of mankind.
Most who use the word civility do not even know what the word means.

What is civility?
Once the element of coexistence is involved,
There is no such thing as coexistence.

There is only competition, conflict, and struggle followed by hardship.
then behavioural parameter must be defined.


Defined as what?
A person living in their own "world" is not subjected to the rules of mankind.
What's that statement mean?
Algol- Which word is the 'mythological metanarrative'? Evil?
Yes the word evil. Good and evil the first historical dualities can be found originally in their first format of history in religious ritualistic depictions everywhere around the world over in that such religionisms is the origins not to mention the original construct of both terms.

The irony is how these words have survived transferring themselves into social philosophy from religion.
What "archaic ritual" does it belong to?


The ritual of demonstrating the illusion and story of a us and them mentality where quite the contrary both sides of the duality are consequences of each other.

The ritualistic metanarrative is of two sides that are eternal foes of each other but once more as said previosly both sides of each token are consequences of each other where both need each other to exist.

There is no two sides. There is no duality.

There is only a singular existence of two sides that are one of the same token.
Is there no such thing as good and/or evil if there is no God?
As a atheist I would make such a remark.
You can be an 'evil' unto yourself by intentionally inflicting self harm.
Evil to me doesn't exist. It's a myth constantly perpetuated in order to exact fear from a social dogma in order to achieve control and obedience.

It's a mythological story retold by those in authority of power in society to lull the masses asleep into docile complacency by threatening them into obedience by calling the disobedient this discription in order to segregate them as somthing other than when it concerns the general populance.

Once you oust a segment of the population under a hideous label is easily to describe them as being somthing other than human (subhuman) or somthing other than the general populance in order to be rid of them by damning ostracization.



Evil exist for atheist; it's just on a more personal level.


I'm a atheist and I don't believe in such.

As an atheist what then do you call murder, rape, and all other acts of violence or betrayal humans do to fellow humans?
Things are not always as they appear; it's a matter of perception.

The eyes can only see what the mind has, is, or will be prepared to comprehend.

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Gamnot
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Re: Is there anything worse than evil?

Post by Gamnot »

I do believe that there is a meaning of some kind to which we attach the word evil and that it is appropriate to do so.

This reminds me of the famous riddle that has a perfect answer to it and it was shown that grammar school students can come up with the answer faster than college students can: What is greater than God, More evil than the devil, The poor have it, The rich need it, and if you eat it, it will kill you.
Ecurb
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Re: Is there anything worse than evil?

Post by Ecurb »

Nothing is greater than God! (That's a hint, by the way.)

Of course there are things that are worse than evil. Horrible things happen that are not evil at all -- tsunamis that kill hundreds of thousands of people (for example) are worse than a spouse who intentionally and maliciously tells his spouse she is stupid. Yet the latter is evil, and the former not evil at all.
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Douglaspocock
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Re: Is there anything worse than evil?

Post by Douglaspocock »

You need to define evil.

Gamnot, I believe that the something you are talking about is in fact- nothing. ;)
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Misty
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Re: Is there anything worse than evil?

Post by Misty »

Gamnot wrote:I do believe that there is a meaning of some kind to which we attach the word evil and that it is appropriate to do so.

This reminds me of the famous riddle that has a perfect answer to it and it was shown that grammar school students can come up with the answer faster than college students can: What is greater than God, More evil than the devil, The poor have it, The rich need it, and if you eat it, it will kill you.

I had not heard this riddle before - thanks! To repeat others - NOTHING!
Things are not always as they appear; it's a matter of perception.

The eyes can only see what the mind has, is, or will be prepared to comprehend.

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Okisites
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Re: Is there anything worse than evil?

Post by Okisites »

[quote="Ecurb"]Nothing is greater than God! (That's a hint, by the way.)

Very good. I am absolutely agree with you. I am going to say the same thing in another way.

Truth is the worse than the evil. Truth is that "nothing" which can be worse than the evil and CERTAINLY not evil. It will perfectly the Truth but worse than the evil. Evil has certain limitation to be considered as evil. The one of the characteristic of evil is, it allows the humanity( full of flaws) to continue without much suffering, which Truth don't allow. Truth allow only that Humanity to continue which is flawless.
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Grecorivera5150
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Re: Is there anything worse than evil?

Post by Grecorivera5150 »

If we look at the idea of evil from the sense of normative behavior of different groups then we can not pass a wide arcing value judgement. The practice of "evil" deeds is highly valued by many powerful groups and individuals and often this valuation of evil deeds is accompanied by en expert level of discretionary practices used to mask the "evil" deeds because of the understanding that certain behaviors would be seen as unacceptable by others.

A good example of how this topic can seem so absolutely muddled is war. War is arguably the most horrifying and yet enduring circumstance of the human condition. Yet when individuals are involved in it they do not only feel justified but often times righteous. The act of murder is considered very widely to be an "evil" act but when it is carried out in an organized fashion but legions of people supporting a nationalist paradigm it becomes not only acceptable but for those who do it well a badge of honor. An even greater flaw in our species is that many times in a conflict both sides will be engaged in equally brutal and immoral acts of murder but the victors will be exonerated and the losers prosecuted as war criminals.

So if I had to take a stab at something being worse then evil it would be fear. Fear in itself is not evil but the intensity of its impact on individuals and groups can move them to great acts of desperation that are irrational and act as a potential breeding ground in which an exponential amount of occurrences of "evil deeds" can be propagated.
Gamnot
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Re: Is there anything worse than evil?

Post by Gamnot »

Grecorivera5150 wrote:If we look at the idea of evil from the sense of normative behavior of different groups then we can not pass a wide arcing value judgement. The practice of "evil" deeds is highly valued by many powerful groups and individuals and often this valuation of evil deeds is accompanied by en expert level of discretionary practices used to mask the "evil" deeds because of the understanding that certain behaviors would be seen as unacceptable by others.

A good example of how this topic can seem so absolutely muddled is war. War is arguably the most horrifying and yet enduring circumstance of the human condition. Yet when individuals are involved in it they do not only feel justified but often times righteous. The act of murder is considered very widely to be an "evil" act but when it is carried out in an organized fashion but legions of people supporting a nationalist paradigm it becomes not only acceptable but for those who do it well a badge of honor. An even greater flaw in our species is that many times in a conflict both sides will be engaged in equally brutal and immoral acts of murder but the victors will be exonerated and the losers prosecuted as war criminals.

So if I had to take a stab at something being worse then evil it would be fear. Fear in itself is not evil but the intensity of its impact on individuals and groups can move them to great acts of desperation that are irrational and act as a potential breeding ground in which an exponential amount of occurrences of "evil deeds" can be propagated.

I believe there is a dynamic relationship between hubris and fear. When the perpetrator rises up in hubris it generates fear both in the perpetrator and his victims as well. I have spoken before of the "hubris and fear" Oscillation that has the tendency to snowball out of control. The different parties involved through necessity have to try to capitalize on the fear of the other.

As the Old Testament says: "Pride; meaning I believe, excessive or runaway pride comes before the fall."

-- Updated June 18th, 2012, 1:17 pm to add the following --

I would understand this as a matter of semantics. I am thinking about the Marcellain concept: that such things as love and evil are mysteries because we participate in them. We cannot get outside of the box and take them apart to understand them.
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Grecorivera5150
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Re: Is there anything worse than evil?

Post by Grecorivera5150 »

Gamnot

I agree. I was going to address pride but felt fear was direction to go in my post because of the idea of normative value judgments being a potential disqualifying reason to see "evil" as the worst thing might also be used for pride. Your present the relationship between fear and hubris as an oscillation is certainly insightful as to the makeup of the global super ego.

It seems like a vicious cycle to contemplate if you take into to account that many of those who would value being prideful or evil would use psychology via marketing, propaganda and religious and scientific dogma to create fear often folding it into society as a baker might fold egg whites into a meringue to create a specific textural reality to exploit for personal gain.
Gamnot
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Re: Is there anything worse than evil?

Post by Gamnot »

On target Greco. I would think of war in human realtiy as being figuratively speaking as something like an earthquake in physical reality and that the cause is stress caused by the "Hubris and Fear" oscillation. And people are concerned about environmental ecology as they should be, but they should rightfully be concerned about concept ecology and that is a good reason for philosophy; it's practical value.
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Re: Is there anything worse than evil?

Post by Seremonia »

Whether we consider evil as conscious being or bad events (as the opposite to goodness), but our arrogance may be even worse than evil because i believe that: since we are not sure if we are tempting by evil, and,
"our fallacies centered on different level of arrogance"
(until now) are the closest threats to ourselves.
I am free not because I have choices, but I am free because I rely on God with quality assured!
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alexjr823
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Re: Is there anything worse than evil?

Post by alexjr823 »

To me there is sin. Sin like apathy,

control, people being praised like princess Diana, the Kennedy's just because they look perfect.

The biggest evil I faced in my lifetime was 9-11. The kids by me were self proclaimed "punk rockers"

so they thought hating George Bush Jr for defending our Country was the cool thing to do to promote their band.

To me worse than evil can be apathy, false prophets or rejection.
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LuckyR
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Re: Is there anything worse than evil?

Post by LuckyR »

This thread is suffering from a lack of definitions of terms.
"As usual... it depends."
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