Is abortion wrong?

[LuckyR]

The problem with morality is my morals may not match yours. Rather than abortion, women should be more responsible about what they are doing prior to being pregnant.

What sort of things do you propise women do differently?

[Mounce574]

The problem with morality is my morals may not match yours. Rather than abortion, women should be more responsible about what they are doing prior to being pregnant.

What sort of things do you propise women do differently?

Birth control is free at any health department. It comes as a daily pill, an injection every 3 months, condoms, film, IUD, and an implant. All of which are offered for free. Abstinence unless you are going to discuss with your partner if a child is something you could see raising together and if you were to separate how you would co-parent. If you become pregnant and do not want the responsibility of raising the child, adoption is a viable and free option. Many people can't have children and adoption agencies will pay for all of your prenatal care. When you give birth, if you never want to have children, you can have a tubal ligation and novasure (a procedure that will prevent the uterine wall from allowing attachment of an egg to implant. It also eliminates menstruation without the side effect of going into early menopause like a hysterectomy). Both procedures take less than 15 minutes.
I honestly believe prevention is something that would be more effective than oops, I got pregnant, get an abortion- going through a procedure that can cause infertility, is painful, listening to a life being cut and vacuumed from your insides (abortions are done under local anesthetic- you are conscious the entire time), risk infections like pelvic inflammatory disease or worse.

[LuckyR]

The problem with morality is my morals may not match yours. Rather than abortion, women should be more responsible about what they are doing prior to being pregnant.

What sort of things do you propise women do differently?

Birth control is free at any health department. It comes as a daily pill, an injection every 3 months, condoms, film, IUD, and an implant. All of which are offered for free. Abstinence unless you are going to discuss with your partner if a child is something you could see raising together and if you were to separate how you would co-parent. If you become pregnant and do not want the responsibility of raising the child, adoption is a viable and free option. Many people can't have children and adoption agencies will pay for all of your prenatal care. When you give birth, if you never want to have children, you can have a tubal ligation and novasure (a procedure that will prevent the uterine wall from allowing attachment of an egg to implant. It also eliminates menstruation without the side effect of going into early menopause like a hysterectomy). Both procedures take less than 15 minutes.
I honestly believe prevention is something that would be more effective than oops, I got pregnant, get an abortion- going through a procedure that can cause infertility, is painful, listening to a life being cut and vacuumed from your insides (abortions are done under local anesthetic- you are conscious the entire time), risk infections like pelvic inflammatory disease or worse.

Everyone knows about the availability of Birth Control. What you seem to not know is that every single technique you mentioned, when performed correctly, has a failure rate, which essentially renders talk of the use of Birth Control moot since some women who did everything perfectly will "oops" get pregnant anyway. That's why the majority of western adults believe abortion should be legal in some or all situations.

Oh and since you brought it up, although legal abortion does carry risk (like everything) the risk is far less than carrying a pregnancy to term and delivering a baby.

Of course illegal abortions do carry significantly increased risk. Are you proposing a return to this?

[Mounce574]

The problem with morality is my morals may not match yours. Rather than abortion, women should be more responsible about what they are doing prior to being pregnant.

What sort of things do you propise women do differently?

Birth control is free at any health department. It comes as a daily pill, an injection every 3 months, condoms, film, IUD, and an implant. All of which are offered for free. Abstinence unless you are going to discuss with your partner if a child is something you could see raising together and if you were to separate how you would co-parent. If you become pregnant and do not want the responsibility of raising the child, adoption is a viable and free option. Many people can't have children and adoption agencies will pay for all of your prenatal care. When you give birth, if you never want to have children, you can have a tubal ligation and novasure (a procedure that will prevent the uterine wall from allowing attachment of an egg to implant. It also eliminates menstruation without the side effect of going into early menopause like a hysterectomy). Both procedures take less than 15 minutes.
I honestly believe prevention is something that would be more effective than oops, I got pregnant, get an abortion- going through a procedure that can cause infertility, is painful, listening to a life being cut and vacuumed from your insides (abortions are done under local anesthetic- you are conscious the entire time), risk infections like pelvic inflammatory disease or worse.

Everyone knows about the availability of Birth Control. What you seem to not know is that every single technique you mentioned, when performed correctly, has a failure rate, which essentially renders talk of the use of Birth Control moot since some women who did everything perfectly will "oops" get pregnant anyway. That's why the majority of western adults believe abortion should be legal in some or all situations.

Oh and since you brought it up, although legal abortion does carry risk (like everything) the risk is far less than carrying a pregnancy to term and delivering a baby.

Of course illegal abortions do carry significantly increased risk. Are you proposing a return to this?

The only legal abortion I think I would condone would be the child and mother would die if carried to viability. I will never condone late-term abortion because that child can survive outside the womb. I am aware there is also a morning-after pill (Plan B) that will prevent implantation of the egg i that is offered at the health department. And to avoid being pregnant- "oops" is avoidable by abstaining from sex. If the man wears a condom and the woman employs any of the birth control options, it is highly unlikely that pregnancy will occur. I think educating people on the various options available to prevent pregnancy would reduce abortions significantly. Sadly, having an abortion will always have side effects: the hormone imbalances from becoming pregnant, the sudden end of the pregnancy imbalances hormones- and some people will still experience a form of post-partum depression, as well as losing a life.

Overpopulation is moot to me because for every child born, there are people that die from natural causes, murder, disease, accidents, etc

[Belindi]

The problem with morality is my morals may not match yours. Rather than abortion, women should be more responsible about what they are doing prior to being pregnant.

What sort of things do you propise women do differently?

Birth control is free at any health department. It comes as a daily pill, an injection every 3 months, condoms, film, IUD, and an implant. All of which are offered for free. Abstinence unless you are going to discuss with your partner if a child is something you could see raising together and if you were to separate how you would co-parent. If you become pregnant and do not want the responsibility of raising the child, adoption is a viable and free option. Many people can't have children and adoption agencies will pay for all of your prenatal care. When you give birth, if you never want to have children, you can have a tubal ligation and novasure (a procedure that will prevent the uterine wall from allowing attachment of an egg to implant. It also eliminates menstruation without the side effect of going into early menopause like a hysterectomy). Both procedures take less than 15 minutes.
I honestly believe prevention is something that would be more effective than oops, I got pregnant, get an abortion- going through a procedure that can cause infertility, is painful, listening to a life being cut and vacuumed from your insides (abortions are done under local anesthetic- you are conscious the entire time), risk infections like pelvic inflammatory disease or worse.

But there is no "health department" available to most people. No free contraceptive care, except for charities that distribute condoms and try to persuade men to use them. Many women and girls have no resources for care apart from amateur abortionists, and the girls' own friends if they have any. Many women and girls submit to menfolk because they have no other choice but to do so.

[LuckyR]

What sort of things do you propise women do differently?

Birth control is free at any health department. It comes as a daily pill, an injection every 3 months, condoms, film, IUD, and an implant. All of which are offered for free. Abstinence unless you are going to discuss with your partner if a child is something you could see raising together and if you were to separate how you would co-parent. If you become pregnant and do not want the responsibility of raising the child, adoption is a viable and free option. Many people can't have children and adoption agencies will pay for all of your prenatal care. When you give birth, if you never want to have children, you can have a tubal ligation and novasure (a procedure that will prevent the uterine wall from allowing attachment of an egg to implant. It also eliminates menstruation without the side effect of going into early menopause like a hysterectomy). Both procedures take less than 15 minutes.
I honestly believe prevention is something that would be more effective than oops, I got pregnant, get an abortion- going through a procedure that can cause infertility, is painful, listening to a life being cut and vacuumed from your insides (abortions are done under local anesthetic- you are conscious the entire time), risk infections like pelvic inflammatory disease or worse.

Everyone knows about the availability of Birth Control. What you seem to not know is that every single technique you mentioned, when performed correctly, has a failure rate, which essentially renders talk of the use of Birth Control moot since some women who did everything perfectly will "oops" get pregnant anyway. That's why the majority of western adults believe abortion should be legal in some or all situations.

Oh and since you brought it up, although legal abortion does carry risk (like everything) the risk is far less than carrying a pregnancy to term and delivering a baby.

Of course illegal abortions do carry significantly increased risk. Are you proposing a return to this?

The only legal abortion I think I would condone would be the child and mother would die if carried to viability. I will never condone late-term abortion because that child can survive outside the womb. I am aware there is also a morning-after pill (Plan B) that will prevent implantation of the egg i that is offered at the health department. And to avoid being pregnant- "oops" is avoidable by abstaining from sex. If the man wears a condom and the woman employs any of the birth control options, it is highly unlikely that pregnancy will occur. I think educating people on the various options available to prevent pregnancy would reduce abortions significantly. Sadly, having an abortion will always have side effects: the hormone imbalances from becoming pregnant, the sudden end of the pregnancy imbalances hormones- and some people will still experience a form of post-partum depression, as well as losing a life.

Overpopulation is moot to me because for every child born, there are people that die from natural causes, murder, disease, accidents, etc

Lots to unpack here.

First, you apparently are in the category of "abortion should be legal in certain circumstances" group. I didn't suppose that based on your previous postings.

Second, the vast majority of citizens don't agree with terminations of normal fetuses after 24 weeks gestation if the mother's health is not in grave danger, luckily as it happens almost none of that type are performed.

Kudos to you for agreeing with improved access to birth control and Plan B to prevent unwanted pregnancies in the first place. It always amazes me how the majority of those against legal abortion, are against access to the thing that would reduce the need for what they're against.

Once again pointing out the real negatives/risks of termination without mentioning the negatives/risks of carrying pregnancy to term and delivering is somewhere between naive and dishonest.

No one I am aware of uses world population control as their deciding factor on choosing termination. Though having said that, the issue of population control (typically through family planning and especially education of women) is a legitimate topic of concern.

Still waiting on your thoughts on the concept of returning to the health risks of illegal abortions.

[Mounce574]

China has a 2 child limit and boys are favored over girls, and they use it as a type of population control. The risks of carrying to term and giving birth are significantly reduced with proper prenatal care. But then again, there are the same things like postpartum depression, anemia can cause complications (guilty of this myself), and preeclampsia (sepsis technically but treatable). Again, significantly less likely to cause harm because it will be a doctor you build a relationship with and not some stranger you meet on the day of the abortion whose credentials are questionable at best.
Illegal abortions are legitimately far more dangerous than any other route that the woman can elect. But their imperative word there is ILLEGAL. Meaning she shouldn't be considering it at all.

[LuckyR]

China has a 2 child limit and boys are favored over girls, and they use it as a type of population control. The risks of carrying to term and giving birth are significantly reduced with proper prenatal care. But then again, there are the same things like postpartum depression, anemia can cause complications (guilty of this myself), and preeclampsia (sepsis technically but treatable). Again, significantly less likely to cause harm because it will be a doctor you build a relationship with and not some stranger you meet on the day of the abortion whose credentials are questionable at best.
Illegal abortions are legitimately far more dangerous than any other route that the woman can elect. But their imperative word there is ILLEGAL. Meaning she shouldn't be considering it at all.

China doesn't have a 2 child policy.

When China had the one child policy, then the two child policy, those were addressed by withdrawing governmental subsidies for additional children, not forcing abortion. Of course abortion was legal and therefore some chose abortion for numerous reasons.

Childbirth is 14 times more likely to result in the death of a mother than a legal abortion.
https://pubmed.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/22270271/

Everyone knows that illegal abortions are a bad idea AND that in a situation where abortion is illegal some desperate women will end up having them. But I guess that type of life loss isn't considered precious by some.

[Mounce574]

If taken from a legal standpoint, then the mother is risking her life to obtain an illegal procedure; therefore she assumes the apparant risks associated with it.
I think all life is precious. Prevention is key to solving this issue though.

[LuckyR]

If taken from a legal standpoint, then the mother is risking her life to obtain an illegal procedure; therefore she assumes the apparant risks associated with it.
I think all life is precious. Prevention is key to solving this issue though.

Of course desperate women in desperate situations assume life threatening risk, that's my whole point.

Curious to know what you mean specifically by "prevention".

[Mounce574]

If taken from a legal standpoint, then the mother is risking her life to obtain an illegal procedure; therefore she assumes the apparant risks associated with it.
I think all life is precious. Prevention is key to solving this issue though.

Of course desperate women in desperate situations assume life threatening risk, that's my whole point.

Curious to know what you mean specifically by "prevention".

1. The woman takes the step to prevent pregnancy- abstinence, and birth control(pill, IUD, tubal ligation, Adiona, hysterectomy, and many other options). 2. The man does the same: abstinence and birth control (I am counting vasectomy, condoms as forms of this). Prevent pregnancy then abortion and pregnancy complications are not necessary dangers.

[Mounce574]

The problem with morality is my morals may not match yours. Rather than abortion, women should be more responsible about what they are doing prior to being pregnant.

What sort of things do you propise women do differently?

Birth control is free at any health department. It comes as a daily pill, an injection every 3 months, condoms, film, IUD, and an implant. All of which are offered for free. Abstinence unless you are going to discuss with your partner if a child is something you could see raising together and if you were to separate how you would co-parent. If you become pregnant and do not want the responsibility of raising the child, adoption is a viable and free option. Many people can't have children and adoption agencies will pay for all of your prenatal care. When you give birth, if you never want to have children, you can have a tubal ligation and novasure (a procedure that will prevent the uterine wall from allowing attachment of an egg to implant. It also eliminates menstruation without the side effect of going into early menopause like a hysterectomy). Both procedures take less than 15 minutes.
I honestly believe prevention is something that would be more effective than oops, I got pregnant, get an abortion- going through a procedure that can cause infertility, is painful, listening to a life being cut and vacuumed from your insides (abortions are done under local anesthetic- you are conscious the entire time), risk infections like pelvic inflammatory disease or worse.

But there is no "health department" available to most people. No free contraceptive care, except for charities that distribute condoms and try to persuade men to use them. Many women and girls have no resources for care apart from amateur abortionists, and the girls' own friends if they have any. Many women and girls submit to menfolk because they have no other choice but to do so.

Planned Parenthood provides these things. And it is Planned Parenthood that performs abortions- so that is not a viable excuse.

[LuckyR]

If taken from a legal standpoint, then the mother is risking her life to obtain an illegal procedure; therefore she assumes the apparant risks associated with it.
I think all life is precious. Prevention is key to solving this issue though.

Of course desperate women in desperate situations assume life threatening risk, that's my whole point.

Curious to know what you mean specifically by "prevention".

1. The woman takes the step to prevent pregnancy- abstinence, and birth control(pill, IUD, tubal ligation, Adiona, hysterectomy, and many other options). 2. The man does the same: abstinence and birth control (I am counting vasectomy, condoms as forms of this). Prevent pregnancy then abortion and pregnancy complications are not necessary dangers.

So you support abortion for those who use those methods and get pregnant anyway?

[Samantha Barnes 3]

Abortion is not wrong to a certain point. Some studies have shown that fetuses develop a consciousness after 3 or 4 months. If a fetus has developed consciousness, it would be wrong to abort it because it is aware of its surroundings.

[LuckyR]

Abortion is not wrong to a certain point. Some studies have shown that fetuses develop a consciousness after 3 or 4 months. If a fetus has developed consciousness, it would be wrong to abort it because it is aware of its surroundings.

Is taking away an adult's autonomy wrong?