Happy New Year! The January Philosophy Book of the Month is The Runaway Species. Discuss it now.

The February Philosophy Book of the Month is The Fourth Age by Byron Reese (Nominated by RJG.)

What Is Reverse Psychology?

Discuss morality and ethics in this message board.
Featured Article: Philosophical Analysis of Abortion, The Right to Life, and Murder
User avatar
Greta
Site Admin
Posts: 7600
Joined: December 16th, 2013, 9:05 pm

Re: What Is Reverse Psychology?

Post by Greta » September 26th, 2018, 3:18 am

Lucky, I think that more young people simply want to die as their prospects for career and housing are swamped by growing competitions. There's a lot of lost young souls out there who can't see a place for themselves in a less forgiving world. The recklessness is often intentional.

Also, as police managed to put an end to cannabis plantations with helicopter raids those keen to experiment were increasingly exposed to pills.

User avatar
ThomasHobbes
Posts: 1122
Joined: May 5th, 2018, 5:53 pm

Re: What Is Reverse Psychology?

Post by ThomasHobbes » September 26th, 2018, 5:57 pm

LuckyR wrote:
September 26th, 2018, 1:40 am
ThomasHobbes wrote:
September 21st, 2018, 12:38 pm


Maybe they did not use reverse psychology, or maybe it does not work?

I was not making a point about drug taking but giving an example of reverse psychology.

But since you brought it up I do not think people are taking more drugs now, nor are the drugs that are taken are any harder.
You are free to "think" whatever you want. However US drug deaths have doubled in the last decade and gone from about 17,000 to 72,000 in less than two decades (1999 to 2017)
"Drug Deaths"; defined how exactly?

Half of all overdoses are due to prescription drugs.
So what are you actually talking about?

Karpel Tunnel
Posts: 564
Joined: February 16th, 2018, 11:28 am

Re: What Is Reverse Psychology?

Post by Karpel Tunnel » September 27th, 2018, 9:51 am

LuckyR wrote:
September 26th, 2018, 1:46 am
Don't get me wrong. Reverse psychology (like regular pop psychology) is an influencer but far from a dictator of decision making. Thus it can be best appreciated when looking at large group trends over long periods of time (not individuals).
Sure, I don't think reverse psychology is 100% effective even with people who like to do the opposite of what they are told. I don't think anyone here suggested it is like a dictator. I don't think it makes sense to look at large group trends, because we have no idea if people are using reverse psychology in those groups. There may be something analogous to reverse psychology, but using this or that drug, or being a poor or negative role model on an issue, or implicitly, through action, seeming to implicitly support the use or non-use of a drug....none of these are reverse psychology. Reverse psychology is a choice when one notices that someone tends to do the opposite of what they are told or suggested to do, in general or around a specific act: it's called reactance. That they have this habit, in the specific case or in general. It is then utliizing this habit by suggesting the opposite of what one wants them to do. To suggest they refrain if you want them to do it. To suggest they do if you don't want them to.

https://www.livescience.com/55272-how-r ... works.html

User avatar
LuckyR
Moderator
Posts: 3251
Joined: January 18th, 2015, 1:16 am

Re: What Is Reverse Psychology?

Post by LuckyR » September 27th, 2018, 3:32 pm

ThomasHobbes wrote:
September 26th, 2018, 5:57 pm
LuckyR wrote:
September 26th, 2018, 1:40 am


You are free to "think" whatever you want. However US drug deaths have doubled in the last decade and gone from about 17,000 to 72,000 in less than two decades (1999 to 2017)
"Drug Deaths"; defined how exactly?

Half of all overdoses are due to prescription drugs.
So what are you actually talking about?
You are correct (in your implying that) prescription drugs used illegally are correctly counted in the stats on "illicit" drug deaths.
"As usual... it depends."

User avatar
LuckyR
Moderator
Posts: 3251
Joined: January 18th, 2015, 1:16 am

Re: What Is Reverse Psychology?

Post by LuckyR » September 27th, 2018, 3:38 pm

Greta wrote:
September 26th, 2018, 3:18 am
Lucky, I think that more young people simply want to die as their prospects for career and housing are swamped by growing competitions. There's a lot of lost young souls out there who can't see a place for themselves in a less forgiving world. The recklessness is often intentional.

Also, as police managed to put an end to cannabis plantations with helicopter raids those keen to experiment were increasingly exposed to pills.
I am confident that the average young drug user is not consciously seeking to end their lives through drugs, though I don't disagree that at a subconscious level that could very well be true and common. Additionally I don't think we need to invoke economics to explain the recklessness of youth.

As to the idea of the Drug War's successful skirmishes leading to harder core drug use, the retrospective proof will be if the reverse happens now that MJ is legal (in certain localities).
"As usual... it depends."

User avatar
LuckyR
Moderator
Posts: 3251
Joined: January 18th, 2015, 1:16 am

Re: What Is Reverse Psychology?

Post by LuckyR » September 27th, 2018, 3:53 pm

Karpel Tunnel wrote:
September 27th, 2018, 9:51 am
LuckyR wrote:
September 26th, 2018, 1:46 am
Don't get me wrong. Reverse psychology (like regular pop psychology) is an influencer but far from a dictator of decision making. Thus it can be best appreciated when looking at large group trends over long periods of time (not individuals).
Sure, I don't think reverse psychology is 100% effective even with people who like to do the opposite of what they are told. I don't think anyone here suggested it is like a dictator. I don't think it makes sense to look at large group trends, because we have no idea if people are using reverse psychology in those groups. There may be something analogous to reverse psychology, but using this or that drug, or being a poor or negative role model on an issue, or implicitly, through action, seeming to implicitly support the use or non-use of a drug....none of these are reverse psychology. Reverse psychology is a choice when one notices that someone tends to do the opposite of what they are told or suggested to do, in general or around a specific act: it's called reactance. That they have this habit, in the specific case or in general. It is then utliizing this habit by suggesting the opposite of what one wants them to do. To suggest they refrain if you want them to do it. To suggest they do if you don't want them to.

https://www.livescience.com/55272-how-r ... works.html
That is all that I am saying.

While tiny, well constructed studies can prove the limited effect of reverse psychology, analogous large scale trends do show the cumulative effect of modest sized shifts in large groups.
"As usual... it depends."

User avatar
Greta
Site Admin
Posts: 7600
Joined: December 16th, 2013, 9:05 pm

Re: What Is Reverse Psychology?

Post by Greta » September 27th, 2018, 4:29 pm

LuckyR wrote:
September 27th, 2018, 3:38 pm
Greta wrote:
September 26th, 2018, 3:18 am
Lucky, I think that more young people simply want to die as their prospects for career and housing are swamped by growing competitions. There's a lot of lost young souls out there who can't see a place for themselves in a less forgiving world. The recklessness is often intentional.

Also, as police managed to put an end to cannabis plantations with helicopter raids those keen to experiment were increasingly exposed to pills.
I am confident that the average young drug user is not consciously seeking to end their lives through drugs, though I don't disagree that at a subconscious level that could very well be true and common. Additionally I don't think we need to invoke economics to explain the recklessness of youth.

As to the idea of the Drug War's successful skirmishes leading to harder core drug use, the retrospective proof will be if the reverse happens now that MJ is legal (in certain localities).
I don't need proof that law enforcement agencies largely created the hard drug problem because SWIM came through the drug world as a young 'un. SWIM saw it happening because SWIM was one who happened to like pot and not other drugs. SWIM saw the weed dry up and in its stead came much smack and coke, and SWIM saw some friends of friends go down that way. Meanwhile, the papers were full of triumphant reports about winning the war on drugs as police would fly helicopters over the north coast and bust all the dumb hippie growers. This opened up the market for hardcore crims with more compact and easy to hide drugs. They were harder to catch. The triumphant reports slowed and the bodies started flowing into morgues in earnest. The Police Dept had created new drug markets where there were previously none.

As for those trying to kill themselves with drugs (mostly booze & cigs, but also others in some cases), I can think of three of my nephew's old school pals plus and old friend of mine - none can compete in today's world. The cause is almost entirely economic. I know others who live cleanly but are on the verge of homelessness - some young, some my generation. There is growing despair at the situation with employment and accommodation.

User avatar
ThomasHobbes
Posts: 1122
Joined: May 5th, 2018, 5:53 pm

Re: What Is Reverse Psychology?

Post by ThomasHobbes » September 27th, 2018, 5:42 pm

LuckyR wrote:
September 27th, 2018, 3:32 pm
ThomasHobbes wrote:
September 26th, 2018, 5:57 pm


"Drug Deaths"; defined how exactly?

Half of all overdoses are due to prescription drugs.
So what are you actually talking about?
You are correct (in your implying that) prescription drugs used illegally are correctly counted in the stats on "illicit" drug deaths.
I did not say that. Prescription drugs are drugs used legally and account for more than half of 'drug deaths'.
None of this supports the absurd claim about children rejecting their parents.

User avatar
ThomasHobbes
Posts: 1122
Joined: May 5th, 2018, 5:53 pm

Re: What Is Reverse Psychology?

Post by ThomasHobbes » September 27th, 2018, 5:43 pm

******** comic book website.

Karpel Tunnel
Posts: 564
Joined: February 16th, 2018, 11:28 am

Re: What Is Reverse Psychology?

Post by Karpel Tunnel » September 27th, 2018, 8:20 pm

ThomasHobbes wrote:
September 27th, 2018, 5:43 pm
******** comic book website.
Do you disagree with Greenberg's work and conclusions or the website's characterization of those things? Or was it an off topic comment?

User avatar
ThomasHobbes
Posts: 1122
Joined: May 5th, 2018, 5:53 pm

Re: What Is Reverse Psychology?

Post by ThomasHobbes » September 28th, 2018, 12:52 pm

Karpel Tunnel wrote:
September 27th, 2018, 8:20 pm
ThomasHobbes wrote:
September 27th, 2018, 5:43 pm


******** comic book website.
Do you disagree with Greenberg's work and conclusions or the website's characterization of those things? Or was it an off topic comment?
I doubt that that Greenberg's work is adequately represented enough to be able to judge his work. And would never us such a website to make any statements concerning the subjects they pretend to characterise.

User avatar
LuckyR
Moderator
Posts: 3251
Joined: January 18th, 2015, 1:16 am

Re: What Is Reverse Psychology?

Post by LuckyR » September 28th, 2018, 1:24 pm

ThomasHobbes wrote:
September 27th, 2018, 5:42 pm
LuckyR wrote:
September 27th, 2018, 3:32 pm


You are correct (in your implying that) prescription drugs used illegally are correctly counted in the stats on "illicit" drug deaths.
I did not say that. Prescription drugs are drugs used legally and account for more than half of 'drug deaths'.
None of this supports the absurd claim about children rejecting their parents.

I apologize in advance to anyone else who finds this description of the obvious overly tedious. Prescription drugs are drugs that CAN be used legally... or in the case of the current narcotics crisis, are too frequently diverted into the illicit drug market and thus are correctly labeled and counted as illegal drugs. If you don't believe me, why are traffickers in illegal prescription drug sales sitting in prison?

As to the OP about reverse psychology, you were the one who posted: "A parent wishing their child to NOT take drugs, pretends to take drugs themselves and tell their child that drugs are "really kewl man!!". The child wishing to take a different stance from their parent decides to never take drugs since it is "so 20th century"."

My posting was an adjustment to your comment.
"As usual... it depends."

User avatar
LuckyR
Moderator
Posts: 3251
Joined: January 18th, 2015, 1:16 am

Re: What Is Reverse Psychology?

Post by LuckyR » September 28th, 2018, 1:36 pm

Greta wrote:
September 27th, 2018, 4:29 pm
LuckyR wrote:
September 27th, 2018, 3:38 pm


I am confident that the average young drug user is not consciously seeking to end their lives through drugs, though I don't disagree that at a subconscious level that could very well be true and common. Additionally I don't think we need to invoke economics to explain the recklessness of youth.

As to the idea of the Drug War's successful skirmishes leading to harder core drug use, the retrospective proof will be if the reverse happens now that MJ is legal (in certain localities).
I don't need proof that law enforcement agencies largely created the hard drug problem because SWIM came through the drug world as a young 'un. SWIM saw it happening because SWIM was one who happened to like pot and not other drugs. SWIM saw the weed dry up and in its stead came much smack and coke, and SWIM saw some friends of friends go down that way. Meanwhile, the papers were full of triumphant reports about winning the war on drugs as police would fly helicopters over the north coast and bust all the dumb hippie growers. This opened up the market for hardcore crims with more compact and easy to hide drugs. They were harder to catch. The triumphant reports slowed and the bodies started flowing into morgues in earnest. The Police Dept had created new drug markets where there were previously none.

As for those trying to kill themselves with drugs (mostly booze & cigs, but also others in some cases), I can think of three of my nephew's old school pals plus and old friend of mine - none can compete in today's world. The cause is almost entirely economic. I know others who live cleanly but are on the verge of homelessness - some young, some my generation. There is growing despair at the situation with employment and accommodation.
I have no doubt that your observations are accurate. However, it is my opinion that what you are describing is a historical constant, that does not account for the dramatic (more than quadrupling of drug deaths in less than two decades) change in the types of illegal drugs used, since the total percentage of illegal users (using within the last month) has only increased from about 8 to 9% in the same time period.

Your first paragraph does provide such a partial explanation, though it is not clear to me what era your first paragraph's observations were gathered from. If it was the late 60s/early 70s then I agree with you.
"As usual... it depends."

User avatar
ThomasHobbes
Posts: 1122
Joined: May 5th, 2018, 5:53 pm

Re: What Is Reverse Psychology?

Post by ThomasHobbes » September 28th, 2018, 2:01 pm

LuckyR wrote:
September 28th, 2018, 1:24 pm
ThomasHobbes wrote:
September 27th, 2018, 5:42 pm


I did not say that. Prescription drugs are drugs used legally and account for more than half of 'drug deaths'.
None of this supports the absurd claim about children rejecting their parents.

I apologize in advance to anyone else who finds this description of the obvious overly tedious. Prescription drugs are drugs that CAN be used legally... or in the case of the current narcotics crisis, are too frequently diverted into the illicit drug market and thus are correctly labeled and counted as illegal drugs. If you don't believe me, why are traffickers in illegal prescription drug sales sitting in prison?

As to the OP about reverse psychology, you were the one who posted: "A parent wishing their child to NOT take drugs, pretends to take drugs themselves and tell their child that drugs are "really kewl man!!". The child wishing to take a different stance from their parent decides to never take drugs since it is "so 20th century"."

My posting was an adjustment to your comment.
You are confused about the meaning of the data.

As to the comment of Reverse psychology and drugs. It was an example - **** all to do with stats. And not intended as an entree to gab about drugs.
The stats have nothing to do with reverse psychology.

User avatar
ThomasHobbes
Posts: 1122
Joined: May 5th, 2018, 5:53 pm

Re: What Is Reverse Psychology?

Post by ThomasHobbes » September 28th, 2018, 2:06 pm

The stats show an increase in the data.
This does not necessarily reflect drug use, drug deaths, and of course nothing what ever to do with reverse psychology.
It does reflect the government's obsession with it's war on drugs, and the fact that it now likes to gather data on the subject.
What seems to be happening in the US is a massive increase in legal drug pushing to help create addicts, and a massive increase in its war against drug users.
This has benefits for the privately owned prisons, and enables a continuing moral and ideological attack upon the poor and deprived.

Post Reply