Is the reconciliation acceptable?

Discuss the March 2021 Philosophy Book of the Month, The Biblical Clock: The Untold Secrets Linking the Universe and Humanity with God’s Plan by Daniel Friedmann.
User avatar
Sushan
Book of the Month Discussion Leader
Posts: 2221
Joined: February 19th, 2021, 8:12 pm
Contact:

Is the reconciliation acceptable?

Post by Sushan »

After an in-depth exploration of science and biblical texts, I have determined that such a reconciliation is indeed possible. This book demonstrates the resolution between science and scripture with respect to the timing of the formation of the universe and the appearance of life on Earth.
As the above quote suggests, the author is trying to reconcile biblical and other religious teachings regarding God's creations along with the scientific theories made so far regarding the same fact of beginnings of the solar system, earth, and life. The author is arguing philosophically that these time lines go hand in hand, and at some occasions only the wordings have added some confusion but the facts are true.

For an example he suggests that the God's creation of solar system, earth, and life in just seven days is a true scenario, but that word 'day' does not mean a 24-hour day that we currently experience but it is thousands of years. And when it is taken like that, it agrees with the since.

What do you think of this philosophical argument? Is this reconciliation acceptable? While philosophy is something that uses arguments to prove a thing, and science is a subject that uses research and evidence for the same purpose, can we bring these two to a common table, like this author has done?
User avatar
WarrenZ
New Trial Member
Posts: 8
Joined: February 25th, 2021, 8:12 pm

Re: Is the reconciliation acceptable?

Post by WarrenZ »

Sushan wrote: March 1st, 2021, 8:24 pm What do you think of this philosophical argument? Is this reconciliation acceptable? While philosophy is something that uses arguments to prove a thing, and science is a subject that uses research and evidence for the same purpose, can we bring these two to a common table, like this author has done?
There are times where science and philosophy will impact the developments of each other, but I don't think it is not very probable—and not even desirable—to reconcile Biblical texts with scientific observations. Perhaps one should take the Bible more metaphorically than completely literally (and this does not mean that we cannot believe in the truth of Christianity/Judaism because we take it metaphorically), in that it teaches more how one should live and die, than how the world is really created.
baker
Posts: 608
Joined: November 28th, 2020, 6:55 am

Re: Is the reconciliation acceptable?

Post by baker »

Sushan wrote: March 1st, 2021, 8:24 pmIs this reconciliation acceptable? While philosophy is something that uses arguments to prove a thing, and science is a subject that uses research and evidence for the same purpose, can we bring these two to a common table, like this author has done?
No. Philosophy and religion are non-overlapping magisteria.
Alias
Posts: 3119
Joined: November 26th, 2011, 8:10 pm
Favorite Philosopher: Terry Pratchett

Re: Is the reconciliation acceptable?

Post by Alias »

It's not a philosophical argument; it's apologia.
But what if.... and then we can pretend ....
It works only in tiny, isolated examples. You can explain away the implausibility of the creation story by stretching time; you can turn Sampson into an allegory of carnal lust vs. spiritual aspiration; you can perhaps make some excuse for Moses stealing the Egyptians' silverware; I'm not sure what you can make of The Flood -
- but there is no frickin' way you can fit all of those 'spainings into a coherent philosophical argument.
Those who can induce you to believe absurdities can induce you to commit atrocities. - Voltaire
User avatar
Sushan
Book of the Month Discussion Leader
Posts: 2221
Joined: February 19th, 2021, 8:12 pm
Contact:

Re: Is the reconciliation acceptable?

Post by Sushan »

WarrenZ wrote: March 1st, 2021, 9:22 pm
Sushan wrote: March 1st, 2021, 8:24 pm What do you think of this philosophical argument? Is this reconciliation acceptable? While philosophy is something that uses arguments to prove a thing, and science is a subject that uses research and evidence for the same purpose, can we bring these two to a common table, like this author has done?
There are times where science and philosophy will impact the developments of each other, but I don't think it is not very probable—and not even desirable—to reconcile Biblical texts with scientific observations. Perhaps one should take the Bible more metaphorically than completely literally (and this does not mean that we cannot believe in the truth of Christianity/Judaism because we take it metaphorically), in that it teaches more how one should live and die, than how the world is really created.
I agree with you. Religious teachings are mostly for the spiritual development of humans and science is for the physical development. There is no need to compare these two for the advancement of the world, and when we try to compare the two and either to prove or disprove one party only, the problems occur. So it is better to keep the two aside and use each for its intended purpose.
User avatar
Sushan
Book of the Month Discussion Leader
Posts: 2221
Joined: February 19th, 2021, 8:12 pm
Contact:

Re: Is the reconciliation acceptable?

Post by Sushan »

baker wrote: March 1st, 2021, 11:30 pm
Sushan wrote: March 1st, 2021, 8:24 pmIs this reconciliation acceptable? While philosophy is something that uses arguments to prove a thing, and science is a subject that uses research and evidence for the same purpose, can we bring these two to a common table, like this author has done?
No. Philosophy and religion are non-overlapping magisteria.
Thank you for the inclusion of the link. I would like to quote some interesting text that I read from it.
Science tries to document the factual character of the natural world, and to develop theories that coordinate and explain these facts. Religion, on the other hand, operates in the equally important, but utterly different, realm of human purposes, meanings, and values—subjects that the factual domain of science might illuminate, but can never resolve
This explains it all. Science and religion have their own domains to play, but their margins are quite arbitrary, and that is why there is always clash between the two. Sometimes there are situations that seem like they are common for both domains, but when carefully considered we can see that they belong only to one domain but not the other.
User avatar
Sushan
Book of the Month Discussion Leader
Posts: 2221
Joined: February 19th, 2021, 8:12 pm
Contact:

Re: Is the reconciliation acceptable?

Post by Sushan »

Alias wrote: March 2nd, 2021, 1:47 am It's not a philosophical argument; it's apologia.
But what if.... and then we can pretend ....
It works only in tiny, isolated examples. You can explain away the implausibility of the creation story by stretching time; you can turn Sampson into an allegory of carnal lust vs. spiritual aspiration; you can perhaps make some excuse for Moses stealing the Egyptians' silverware; I'm not sure what you can make of The Flood -
- but there is no frickin' way you can fit all of those 'spainings into a coherent philosophical argument.
Well said. I see your point. Apologia (thanks for the word) can be used to defend our theories or thoughts, but at the same time, anyone who is better than us can break our points too. But scientific evidence are usually disproved by another valid scientific study, not by mere arguments. So it is unacceptable when such reconciliation is tried to be made between apologia based philosophy and research and evidence based science.
User avatar
LuckyR
Moderator
Posts: 7932
Joined: January 18th, 2015, 1:16 am

Re: Is the reconciliation acceptable?

Post by LuckyR »

If there was a god, the idea that their texts would be written in a way that the Iron age audience of such writings would understand it makes sense, yet proves nothing.
"As usual... it depends."
User avatar
Sushan
Book of the Month Discussion Leader
Posts: 2221
Joined: February 19th, 2021, 8:12 pm
Contact:

Re: Is the reconciliation acceptable?

Post by Sushan »

LuckyR wrote: March 2nd, 2021, 3:10 am If there was a god, the idea that their texts would be written in a way that the Iron age audience of such writings would understand it makes sense, yet proves nothing.
Quite correct. Many people say that the bible is written either in riddles or in old language which cannot be understood by just understanding the words. Yet, even if we try to argue and assume things related to its content, numerous occasions can be found that we cannot put them in anyway which is acceptable to the currently accepted knowledge. So the biblical teachings usually prove no scientific data, and all we can do is this sort of reconciliation
Alias
Posts: 3119
Joined: November 26th, 2011, 8:10 pm
Favorite Philosopher: Terry Pratchett

Re: Is the reconciliation acceptable?

Post by Alias »

There is no connection between science and mythology. Nobody has ever tried to come up with a scientific explanation for how and why the Greek gods had vacated Olympus by the time somebody climbed to the top. Nobody tried to give a biological explanation of Ganesh, or a meteorological one of the effect of blood sacrifice on rainfall.
The only possible reason for enlisting "science" to service of a particular religion is to bolster its political power.
User avatar
Pattern-chaser
Premium Member
Posts: 8265
Joined: September 22nd, 2019, 5:17 am
Favorite Philosopher: Cratylus
Location: England

Re: Is the reconciliation acceptable?

Post by Pattern-chaser »

Sushan wrote: March 1st, 2021, 8:24 pm
After an in-depth exploration of science and biblical texts, I have determined that such a reconciliation is indeed possible. This book demonstrates the resolution between science and scripture with respect to the timing of the formation of the universe and the appearance of life on Earth.
As the above quote suggests, the author is trying to reconcile biblical and other religious teachings regarding God's creations along with the scientific theories made so far regarding the same fact of beginnings of the solar system, earth, and life. The author is arguing philosophically that these time lines go hand in hand, and at some occasions only the wordings have added some confusion but the facts are true.

For an example he suggests that the God's creation of solar system, earth, and life in just seven days is a true scenario, but that word 'day' does not mean a 24-hour day that we currently experience but it is thousands of years. And when it is taken like that, it agrees with the since.

What do you think of this philosophical argument? Is this reconciliation acceptable? While philosophy is something that uses arguments to prove a thing, and science is a subject that uses research and evidence for the same purpose, can we bring these two to a common table, like this author has done?

Reconciliation is only necessary if the things are currently in conflict, in some way. Here, as soon as we understand that religion and science are not at war with one another, we can see there is no need or requirement for reconciliation. Would we wish to reconcile architecture and chariot-racing? No, there is no need and no point. I submit that the same applies here.
Pattern-chaser

"Who cares, wins"
Alias
Posts: 3119
Joined: November 26th, 2011, 8:10 pm
Favorite Philosopher: Terry Pratchett

Re: Is the reconciliation acceptable?

Post by Alias »

Thanks, anyway.
Those who can induce you to believe absurdities can induce you to commit atrocities. - Voltaire
User avatar
Sushan
Book of the Month Discussion Leader
Posts: 2221
Joined: February 19th, 2021, 8:12 pm
Contact:

Re: Is the reconciliation acceptable?

Post by Sushan »

Alias wrote: March 2nd, 2021, 11:39 am There is no connection between science and mythology. Nobody has ever tried to come up with a scientific explanation for how and why the Greek gods had vacated Olympus by the time somebody climbed to the top. Nobody tried to give a biological explanation of Ganesh, or a meteorological one of the effect of blood sacrifice on rainfall.
The only possible reason for enlisting "science" to service of a particular religion is to bolster its political power.
Quite a bold as but valuable answer. You are correct. No one has tried to prove the presence or abscence of the Greek gods, or no one is trying to say those Indian gods are really up there because none of these are politically important.

Yet, when it comes to the Christian God, there are many attempts to prove the God as well as the bible are true, scientifically. Maybe the reason behind these attempts is to enhance its political power. With a seperate spiritual leader, Christianity already have some political power, and if they can prove that the ancient biblical teachings are scientifically accurate, this power can be enhanced.
User avatar
Sushan
Book of the Month Discussion Leader
Posts: 2221
Joined: February 19th, 2021, 8:12 pm
Contact:

Re: Is the reconciliation acceptable?

Post by Sushan »

Pattern-chaser wrote: March 2nd, 2021, 12:21 pm
Sushan wrote: March 1st, 2021, 8:24 pm
After an in-depth exploration of science and biblical texts, I have determined that such a reconciliation is indeed possible. This book demonstrates the resolution between science and scripture with respect to the timing of the formation of the universe and the appearance of life on Earth.
As the above quote suggests, the author is trying to reconcile biblical and other religious teachings regarding God's creations along with the scientific theories made so far regarding the same fact of beginnings of the solar system, earth, and life. The author is arguing philosophically that these time lines go hand in hand, and at some occasions only the wordings have added some confusion but the facts are true.

For an example he suggests that the God's creation of solar system, earth, and life in just seven days is a true scenario, but that word 'day' does not mean a 24-hour day that we currently experience but it is thousands of years. And when it is taken like that, it agrees with the since.

What do you think of this philosophical argument? Is this reconciliation acceptable? While philosophy is something that uses arguments to prove a thing, and science is a subject that uses research and evidence for the same purpose, can we bring these two to a common table, like this author has done?

Reconciliation is only necessary if the things are currently in conflict, in some way. Here, as soon as we understand that religion and science are not at war with one another, we can see there is no need or requirement for reconciliation. Would we wish to reconcile architecture and chariot-racing? No, there is no need and no point. I submit that the same applies here.
If we consider it literally, there is no actual war in between these two. But it is not a secret that many scholars are trying to argue and prove that religious beliefs are scientifically accurate, while some scientists who believe in physical material and evidence based facts are trying to disprove these beliefs. Here the author has tried to bring reconciliation for this cold war which has been there for quite some time. I don't say that it is necessary, but that is this author's attempt. So, let's agree that the reconciliation is not necessary, but since the author has taken the first step let's see whether his attempt is acceptable or not
Alias
Posts: 3119
Joined: November 26th, 2011, 8:10 pm
Favorite Philosopher: Terry Pratchett

Re: Is the reconciliation acceptable?

Post by Alias »

Sushan wrote: March 2nd, 2021, 8:11 pm But it is not a secret that many scholars are trying to argue and prove that religious beliefs are scientifically accurate, while some scientists who believe in physical material and evidence based facts are trying to disprove these beliefs.
Which scholars are are attempting to prove that which religious beliefs are accurate in what way?
Which scientists are are trying to disprove which beliefs?
Is it not, rather, the case that some religionists are misrepresenting science and some scientists are refuting their bogus claims?
Here the author has tried to bring reconciliation for this cold war which has been there for quite some time.
Why?
since the author has taken the first step let's see whether his attempt is acceptable or not
Who is the author, and what is the book?
Post Reply

Return to “The Biblical Clock by Daniel Friedmann”

2023/2024 Philosophy Books of the Month

Entanglement - Quantum and Otherwise

Entanglement - Quantum and Otherwise
by John K Danenbarger
January 2023

Mark Victor Hansen, Relentless: Wisdom Behind the Incomparable Chicken Soup for the Soul

Mark Victor Hansen, Relentless: Wisdom Behind the Incomparable Chicken Soup for the Soul
by Mitzi Perdue
February 2023

Rediscovering the Wisdom of Human Nature: How Civilization Destroys Happiness

Rediscovering the Wisdom of Human Nature: How Civilization Destroys Happiness
by Chet Shupe
March 2023

The Unfakeable Code®

The Unfakeable Code®
by Tony Jeton Selimi
April 2023

The Book: On the Taboo Against Knowing Who You Are

The Book: On the Taboo Against Knowing Who You Are
by Alan Watts
May 2023

Killing Abel

Killing Abel
by Michael Tieman
June 2023

Reconfigurement: Reconfiguring Your Life at Any Stage and Planning Ahead

Reconfigurement: Reconfiguring Your Life at Any Stage and Planning Ahead
by E. Alan Fleischauer
July 2023

First Survivor: The Impossible Childhood Cancer Breakthrough

First Survivor: The Impossible Childhood Cancer Breakthrough
by Mark Unger
August 2023

Predictably Irrational

Predictably Irrational
by Dan Ariely
September 2023

Artwords

Artwords
by Beatriz M. Robles
November 2023

Fireproof Happiness: Extinguishing Anxiety & Igniting Hope

Fireproof Happiness: Extinguishing Anxiety & Igniting Hope
by Dr. Randy Ross
December 2023

Beyond the Golden Door: Seeing the American Dream Through an Immigrant's Eyes

Beyond the Golden Door: Seeing the American Dream Through an Immigrant's Eyes
by Ali Master
February 2024

2022 Philosophy Books of the Month

Emotional Intelligence At Work

Emotional Intelligence At Work
by Richard M Contino & Penelope J Holt
January 2022

Free Will, Do You Have It?

Free Will, Do You Have It?
by Albertus Kral
February 2022

My Enemy in Vietnam

My Enemy in Vietnam
by Billy Springer
March 2022

2X2 on the Ark

2X2 on the Ark
by Mary J Giuffra, PhD
April 2022

The Maestro Monologue

The Maestro Monologue
by Rob White
May 2022

What Makes America Great

What Makes America Great
by Bob Dowell
June 2022

The Truth Is Beyond Belief!

The Truth Is Beyond Belief!
by Jerry Durr
July 2022

Living in Color

Living in Color
by Mike Murphy
August 2022 (tentative)

The Not So Great American Novel

The Not So Great American Novel
by James E Doucette
September 2022

Mary Jane Whiteley Coggeshall, Hicksite Quaker, Iowa/National Suffragette And Her Speeches

Mary Jane Whiteley Coggeshall, Hicksite Quaker, Iowa/National Suffragette And Her Speeches
by John N. (Jake) Ferris
October 2022

In It Together: The Beautiful Struggle Uniting Us All

In It Together: The Beautiful Struggle Uniting Us All
by Eckhart Aurelius Hughes
November 2022

The Smartest Person in the Room: The Root Cause and New Solution for Cybersecurity

The Smartest Person in the Room
by Christian Espinosa
December 2022

2021 Philosophy Books of the Month

The Biblical Clock: The Untold Secrets Linking the Universe and Humanity with God's Plan

The Biblical Clock
by Daniel Friedmann
March 2021

Wilderness Cry: A Scientific and Philosophical Approach to Understanding God and the Universe

Wilderness Cry
by Dr. Hilary L Hunt M.D.
April 2021

Fear Not, Dream Big, & Execute: Tools To Spark Your Dream And Ignite Your Follow-Through

Fear Not, Dream Big, & Execute
by Jeff Meyer
May 2021

Surviving the Business of Healthcare: Knowledge is Power

Surviving the Business of Healthcare
by Barbara Galutia Regis M.S. PA-C
June 2021

Winning the War on Cancer: The Epic Journey Towards a Natural Cure

Winning the War on Cancer
by Sylvie Beljanski
July 2021

Defining Moments of a Free Man from a Black Stream

Defining Moments of a Free Man from a Black Stream
by Dr Frank L Douglas
August 2021

If Life Stinks, Get Your Head Outta Your Buts

If Life Stinks, Get Your Head Outta Your Buts
by Mark L. Wdowiak
September 2021

The Preppers Medical Handbook

The Preppers Medical Handbook
by Dr. William W Forgey M.D.
October 2021

Natural Relief for Anxiety and Stress: A Practical Guide

Natural Relief for Anxiety and Stress
by Dr. Gustavo Kinrys, MD
November 2021

Dream For Peace: An Ambassador Memoir

Dream For Peace
by Dr. Ghoulem Berrah
December 2021