Can studying history be of any importance?

Discuss the March 2021 Philosophy Book of the Month, The Biblical Clock: The Untold Secrets Linking the Universe and Humanity with God’s Plan by Daniel Friedmann.
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Sculptor1
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Re: Can studying history be of any importance?

Post by Sculptor1 »

Sushan wrote: March 2nd, 2021, 8:49 pm
Sculptor1 wrote: March 2nd, 2021, 5:17 pm What an odd Book choice by a Forum whose rules include a proscription on preaching.

"These forums are not for preaching, non-philosophical sermons or making religious or other assertions without providing any argument for them. There is a big different between a philosophy of religion forum versus a religion forum."
I agree with you for certain extent. That is why I have forwra seperate topic to discuss about the author's true intention behind this book.

But I won't consider this as completely preaching, since there is no mentioning about the modern Christian beliefs or even about Jesus. This book is mainly based in ancient scriptures and work of scholars, whose main way of proving things was apologia. So I think that we are currently not supporting any preaching through this forum
I'm sorry - have I made a mistake?
Surely the book in question is "The Biblical Clock: The Untold Secrets Linking the Universe and Humanity with God’s Plan".
This book is just about preaching. Worst still it is using scripture as a means to prove that preaching to be true.
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Re: Can studying history be of any importance?

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Sculptor1 wrote: March 3rd, 2021, 5:08 am
Sushan wrote: March 2nd, 2021, 8:49 pm
Sculptor1 wrote: March 2nd, 2021, 5:17 pm What an odd Book choice by a Forum whose rules include a proscription on preaching.

"These forums are not for preaching, non-philosophical sermons or making religious or other assertions without providing any argument for them. There is a big different between a philosophy of religion forum versus a religion forum."
I agree with you for certain extent. That is why I have forwra seperate topic to discuss about the author's true intention behind this book.

But I won't consider this as completely preaching, since there is no mentioning about the modern Christian beliefs or even about Jesus. This book is mainly based in ancient scriptures and work of scholars, whose main way of proving things was apologia. So I think that we are currently not supporting any preaching through this forum
I'm sorry - have I made a mistake?
Surely the book in question is "The Biblical Clock: The Untold Secrets Linking the Universe and Humanity with God’s Plan".
This book is just about preaching. Worst still it is using scripture as a means to prove that preaching to be true.
As far as I see, preaching is delivering sermons or religious speech to a gathering. Maybe this author has done so indirectly, but this book is presented as a scientific/philosophical document which discusses about Christian belief systems and their scientific validity. I think it has enough philosophy to be considered for a discussion in this forum, as the philosophical book of the month
“There is only one thing a philosopher can be relied upon to do, and that is to contradict other philosophers”

– William James
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Re: Can studying history be of any importance?

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evolution wrote: March 3rd, 2021, 4:35 am
Sushan wrote: March 2nd, 2021, 12:55 pm The author has explained a pattern with regard to the events which were related to fulfilling God's Divine Plan.
Who is the author that you are referring to here?

Did that author mention what God's divine plan is exactly?

If yes, then what is God's divine plan exactly?
Sushan wrote: March 2nd, 2021, 12:55 pm He shows that, though the specific events are different, they follow a common pattern, so based on that we can predict what may come next when few of the initial events of the pattern occur. The author has used this to predict a future war against Israel by other powerful nations.
In general terms of speaking, do you believe in the concept of "history repeats itself"?
History, itself, does not repeat itself. Some human beings, however, may keep repeating and doing the same things over and over, but if when they are doing this, they are expecting the same results, then there is a name for this phenomena.
Sushan wrote: March 2nd, 2021, 12:55 pm By studying the ancient socio-political events and let's say, we identified a pattern in them which has repeated in the history, can we apply it to today's politics and guess what might happen next?
Human beings could guess absolutely anything. But it is only a 'guess'. A guess, however, just like an assumption and/or a theory is not necessarily true nor real at all, as they could all be false, wrong, and/or incorrect.
Sushan wrote: March 2nd, 2021, 12:55 pm Most importantly, if the future can be accurately guessed and if it is harmful, will humans be ready to change their today's behaviour to prevent a future event, which is based on a speculation which is made by studying history? Ultimately, can studying history be of any importance?
Of course the future could be accurately guessed. But how does anyone know if that 'guess' is accurate or not until the time of what is guessed to happen or occur, actually happens and/or occurs?
Here we are discussing the book The Biblical Clock by Daniel Friedmann. So he is the author that I am mentioning regarding this claims. As he says, God's divine plan is to make the earth a dwindling place for the God (I don't know what the God exactly wants). So for that he says several attempts have been made but failed, and as per his speculations, the promised Messiah is to come in around 100 years time to fulfill this God's plan. And from that I raised this question, does history truly repeat itself. I am not a believer of that concept, but he has shown a pattern in his book which has repeated several times through the history, giving some solid base to the so called repeating nature of history.
“There is only one thing a philosopher can be relied upon to do, and that is to contradict other philosophers”

– William James
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Re: Can studying history be of any importance?

Post by Sculptor1 »

Sushan wrote: March 3rd, 2021, 5:50 am
Sculptor1 wrote: March 3rd, 2021, 5:08 am
Sushan wrote: March 2nd, 2021, 8:49 pm
Sculptor1 wrote: March 2nd, 2021, 5:17 pm What an odd Book choice by a Forum whose rules include a proscription on preaching.

"These forums are not for preaching, non-philosophical sermons or making religious or other assertions without providing any argument for them. There is a big different between a philosophy of religion forum versus a religion forum."
I agree with you for certain extent. That is why I have forwra seperate topic to discuss about the author's true intention behind this book.

But I won't consider this as completely preaching, since there is no mentioning about the modern Christian beliefs or even about Jesus. This book is mainly based in ancient scriptures and work of scholars, whose main way of proving things was apologia. So I think that we are currently not supporting any preaching through this forum
I'm sorry - have I made a mistake?
Surely the book in question is "The Biblical Clock: The Untold Secrets Linking the Universe and Humanity with God’s Plan".
This book is just about preaching. Worst still it is using scripture as a means to prove that preaching to be true.
As far as I see, preaching is delivering sermons or religious speech to a gathering.
Duh
Maybe this author has done so indirectly, but this book is presented as a scientific/philosophical document which discusses about Christian belief systems and their scientific validity. I think it has enough philosophy to be considered for a discussion in this forum, as the philosophical book of the month
It contains no philosphy. It's just mumbo-jumbo at the level of Qanon
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Re: Can studying history be of any importance?

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Sculptor1 wrote: March 3rd, 2021, 12:41 pm
Sushan wrote: March 3rd, 2021, 5:50 am
Sculptor1 wrote: March 3rd, 2021, 5:08 am
Sushan wrote: March 2nd, 2021, 8:49 pm

I agree with you for certain extent. That is why I have forwra seperate topic to discuss about the author's true intention behind this book.

But I won't consider this as completely preaching, since there is no mentioning about the modern Christian beliefs or even about Jesus. This book is mainly based in ancient scriptures and work of scholars, whose main way of proving things was apologia. So I think that we are currently not supporting any preaching through this forum
I'm sorry - have I made a mistake?
Surely the book in question is "The Biblical Clock: The Untold Secrets Linking the Universe and Humanity with God’s Plan".
This book is just about preaching. Worst still it is using scripture as a means to prove that preaching to be true.
As far as I see, preaching is delivering sermons or religious speech to a gathering.
Duh
Maybe this author has done so indirectly, but this book is presented as a scientific/philosophical document which discusses about Christian belief systems and their scientific validity. I think it has enough philosophy to be considered for a discussion in this forum, as the philosophical book of the month
It contains no philosphy. It's just mumbo-jumbo at the level of Qanon
I am sorry, but I don't see any connection of this book's content with Qanon.

The book's content can be just mumbo-jumbo for some people, but for some this content can be of utmost importance. So we cannot get into decisions based on our presumptions. That is why this book and some topics related to its content are open for discussion and are being discussed by the members of this philosophy club. I don't think that this book will be chosen for this month's discussion if majority thought that it is either preaching or it contains just invaluable content.

Yet, I don't think that we have a problem in discussing this book with relation to this topic regarding studying history.
“There is only one thing a philosopher can be relied upon to do, and that is to contradict other philosophers”

– William James
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Re: Can studying history be of any importance?

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Sushan wrote: March 3rd, 2021, 2:55 am And I get you as a Joe Biden supporter
Don't be so fast, although I certainly did vote for the guy closest to the center (and have a hard time imagining ever voting for a Republican again, the last time having been in the last century). Over the years I've found very little to distinguish activist left, as well as activist right, political types from people who are fervently religious, and "supporter" isn't exactly how I'd phrase my approach to voting. Until 2000 my vote for president generally went to the guy who I thought would be of the opposite party from the one that controlled Congress.

I consider government to be a necessary evil, and see the Left as over-emphasizing the "necessary" part (I really don't think it would help to have the means of production run by the DMV) and the Right as over-emphasizing the "evil" part, with both sides passing too quickly over the essential point that in order for government to do its job, it has to be functional.

The Republicans currently (and for quite some time) have been the party that has explicitly striven for dysfunction, and it appears that they'll stay that way for the foreseeable future. But in the past the Democrats did their part. As a famous example, consider Teddy Kennedy's taking part in the late 1960's in the sinking of a national health insurance plan similar to Obamacare, because it was proposed by the Nixon Republicans, and in the details it just wasn't what he wanted. And I don't doubt that the current leftist wing of the Democratic party is going to do it's utmost to over-reach and cause just enough of an eventual swing among voters back to the political right in order to get a Republican back into the White House.

Divides in politics aren't far different from divides in religion. It would be nice if people were more "philosophical." (And with that last sentence I finally tie this message into the general subject of these forums.)
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Re: Can studying history be of any importance?

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BobS wrote: March 3rd, 2021, 1:54 pm
Sushan wrote: March 3rd, 2021, 2:55 am And I get you as a Joe Biden supporter
Don't be so fast, although I certainly did vote for the guy closest to the center (and have a hard time imagining ever voting for a Republican again, the last time having been in the last century). Over the years I've found very little to distinguish activist left, as well as activist right, political types from people who are fervently religious, and "supporter" isn't exactly how I'd phrase my approach to voting. Until 2000 my vote for president generally went to the guy who I thought would be of the opposite party from the one that controlled Congress.

I consider government to be a necessary evil, and see the Left as over-emphasizing the "necessary" part (I really don't think it would help to have the means of production run by the DMV) and the Right as over-emphasizing the "evil" part, with both sides passing too quickly over the essential point that in order for government to do its job, it has to be functional.

The Republicans currently (and for quite some time) have been the party that has explicitly striven for dysfunction, and it appears that they'll stay that way for the foreseeable future. But in the past the Democrats did their part. As a famous example, consider Teddy Kennedy's taking part in the late 1960's in the sinking of a national health insurance plan similar to Obamacare, because it was proposed by the Nixon Republicans, and in the details it just wasn't what he wanted. And I don't doubt that the current leftist wing of the Democratic party is going to do it's utmost to over-reach and cause just enough of an eventual swing among voters back to the political right in order to get a Republican back into the White House.

Divides in politics aren't far different from divides in religion. It would be nice if people were more "philosophical." (And with that last sentence I finally tie this message into the general subject of these forums.)
Definitely you have done your studying in history with relation to politics. Yes, people dividing themselves politically are not much different from people who divide according to religious (or non-religious) beliefs. In whatever the case, you will be left with your own thoughts and arguments while someone else have gained the expected power, or attention, or whatever they needed.

I do not have a good opinion on politics and politicians in general, because most of the times they work either according to their personal agendas or according to the principles of their parties, but not for the best interest of their voters. Apparently it was the same throughout the history as well, though we blame today's politicians comparing them to the ones from previous generations.
“There is only one thing a philosopher can be relied upon to do, and that is to contradict other philosophers”

– William James
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Re: Can studying history be of any importance?

Post by Sculptor1 »

Sushan wrote: March 3rd, 2021, 1:04 pm
Sculptor1 wrote: March 3rd, 2021, 12:41 pm
Sushan wrote: March 3rd, 2021, 5:50 am
Sculptor1 wrote: March 3rd, 2021, 5:08 am

I'm sorry - have I made a mistake?
Surely the book in question is "The Biblical Clock: The Untold Secrets Linking the Universe and Humanity with God’s Plan".
This book is just about preaching. Worst still it is using scripture as a means to prove that preaching to be true.
As far as I see, preaching is delivering sermons or religious speech to a gathering.
Duh
Maybe this author has done so indirectly, but this book is presented as a scientific/philosophical document which discusses about Christian belief systems and their scientific validity. I think it has enough philosophy to be considered for a discussion in this forum, as the philosophical book of the month
It contains no philosphy. It's just mumbo-jumbo at the level of Qanon
I am sorry, but I don't see any connection of this book's content with Qanon.
I did not say there was a connection. I said it is munbo-jumbo a the level of Qanon.

The book's content can be just mumbo-jumbo for some people, but for some this content can be of utmost importance.
People who accept mubo-jumbo as important are not doing philosophy. This is a philosophy forum
So we cannot get into decisions based on our presumptions.
Non sequitur
That is why this book and some topics related to its content are open for discussion and are being discussed by the members of this philosophy club.
Non sequitur
I don't think that this book will be chosen for this month's discussion if majority thought that it is either preaching or it contains just invaluable content.
That is why I am pointing out as preaching.

Yet, I don't think that we have a problem in discussing this book with relation to this topic regarding studying history.
There is no history here.
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Re: Can studying history be of any importance?

Post by Sushan »

Sculptor1 wrote: March 4th, 2021, 8:05 am
Sushan wrote: March 3rd, 2021, 1:04 pm
Sculptor1 wrote: March 3rd, 2021, 12:41 pm
Sushan wrote: March 3rd, 2021, 5:50 am

As far as I see, preaching is delivering sermons or religious speech to a gathering.
Duh
Maybe this author has done so indirectly, but this book is presented as a scientific/philosophical document which discusses about Christian belief systems and their scientific validity. I think it has enough philosophy to be considered for a discussion in this forum, as the philosophical book of the month
It contains no philosphy. It's just mumbo-jumbo at the level of Qanon
I am sorry, but I don't see any connection of this book's content with Qanon.
I did not say there was a connection. I said it is munbo-jumbo a the level of Qanon.

The book's content can be just mumbo-jumbo for some people, but for some this content can be of utmost importance.
People who accept mubo-jumbo as important are not doing philosophy. This is a philosophy forum
So we cannot get into decisions based on our presumptions.
Non sequitur
That is why this book and some topics related to its content are open for discussion and are being discussed by the members of this philosophy club.
Non sequitur
I don't think that this book will be chosen for this month's discussion if majority thought that it is either preaching or it contains just invaluable content.
That is why I am pointing out as preaching.

Yet, I don't think that we have a problem in discussing this book with relation to this topic regarding studying history.
There is no history here.
Well, if this book is preaching and there is no history, we can stop discussing it. Yet, the question was about importance of studying history. We could have still discussed about that because this author has actually done a extensive research related to the biblical history, of which some details have an actual historical value. Under such a topic, when the discussion goes on about preaching, then the whole discussion becomes non sequitur. Anyway, thank you for the valuable contribution
“There is only one thing a philosopher can be relied upon to do, and that is to contradict other philosophers”

– William James
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Re: Can studying history be of any importance?

Post by Sculptor1 »

Sushan wrote: March 4th, 2021, 12:59 pm
Sculptor1 wrote: March 4th, 2021, 8:05 am
Sushan wrote: March 3rd, 2021, 1:04 pm
Sculptor1 wrote: March 3rd, 2021, 12:41 pm
Duh


It contains no philosphy. It's just mumbo-jumbo at the level of Qanon
I am sorry, but I don't see any connection of this book's content with Qanon.
I did not say there was a connection. I said it is munbo-jumbo a the level of Qanon.

The book's content can be just mumbo-jumbo for some people, but for some this content can be of utmost importance.
People who accept mubo-jumbo as important are not doing philosophy. This is a philosophy forum
So we cannot get into decisions based on our presumptions.
Non sequitur
That is why this book and some topics related to its content are open for discussion and are being discussed by the members of this philosophy club.
Non sequitur
I don't think that this book will be chosen for this month's discussion if majority thought that it is either preaching or it contains just invaluable content.
That is why I am pointing out as preaching.

Yet, I don't think that we have a problem in discussing this book with relation to this topic regarding studying history.
There is no history here.
Well, if this book is preaching and there is no history, we can stop discussing it. Yet, the question was about importance of studying history. We could have still discussed about that because this author has actually done a extensive research related to the biblical history, of which some details have an actual historical value. Under such a topic, when the discussion goes on about preaching, then the whole discussion becomes non sequitur. Anyway, thank you for the valuable contribution
I am a student of history.
All books of myth including The Iliad, the Aeneid, can be tapped for historical content, but only if you disregard the obviously fantastical claims such as talking horses, cyclopses and witches.
We can extend this to the Mahabarata, and many other ancient books.
But were we to claim that there was really a Blue Boy with magical powers, we would not be doing philosophy. As one does not accept the impregnability of Achilleus, we cannot also pretend that there was a monkey god who could shapeshift.
The works of Homer do relate that a war between Greek speakers and inhabitants of "Troy" took place. WHilst it is likley that such a conflict did happen, it is speculation that any of the characters involved were in any sense real people. What is useful to reflect upon is that later Greek speaking Poleis did consider it part of their history, few rational people would even than have accepted the god-like characteristics described of the heroes.

The book in question does not treat the bible in an appropriate way. It is not history, but it is simply Apologism.
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Re: Can studying history be of any importance?

Post by Sushan »

Sculptor1 wrote: March 5th, 2021, 7:03 am
Sushan wrote: March 4th, 2021, 12:59 pm
Sculptor1 wrote: March 4th, 2021, 8:05 am
Sushan wrote: March 3rd, 2021, 1:04 pm

I am sorry, but I don't see any connection of this book's content with Qanon.
I did not say there was a connection. I said it is munbo-jumbo a the level of Qanon.

The book's content can be just mumbo-jumbo for some people, but for some this content can be of utmost importance.
People who accept mubo-jumbo as important are not doing philosophy. This is a philosophy forum
So we cannot get into decisions based on our presumptions.
Non sequitur
That is why this book and some topics related to its content are open for discussion and are being discussed by the members of this philosophy club.
Non sequitur
I don't think that this book will be chosen for this month's discussion if majority thought that it is either preaching or it contains just invaluable content.
That is why I am pointing out as preaching.

Yet, I don't think that we have a problem in discussing this book with relation to this topic regarding studying history.
There is no history here.
Well, if this book is preaching and there is no history, we can stop discussing it. Yet, the question was about importance of studying history. We could have still discussed about that because this author has actually done a extensive research related to the biblical history, of which some details have an actual historical value. Under such a topic, when the discussion goes on about preaching, then the whole discussion becomes non sequitur. Anyway, thank you for the valuable contribution
I am a student of history.
All books of myth including The Iliad, the Aeneid, can be tapped for historical content, but only if you disregard the obviously fantastical claims such as talking horses, cyclopses and witches.
We can extend this to the Mahabarata, and many other ancient books.
But were we to claim that there was really a Blue Boy with magical powers, we would not be doing philosophy. As one does not accept the impregnability of Achilleus, we cannot also pretend that there was a monkey god who could shapeshift.
The works of Homer do relate that a war between Greek speakers and inhabitants of "Troy" took place. WHilst it is likley that such a conflict did happen, it is speculation that any of the characters involved were in any sense real people. What is useful to reflect upon is that later Greek speaking Poleis did consider it part of their history, few rational people would even than have accepted the god-like characteristics described of the heroes.

The book in question does not treat the bible in an appropriate way. It is not history, but it is simply Apologism.
I agree. Seemingly the author's intention has been giving some legitimacy for a mythical bbiblical story by comparing it with compelling scientific evidence. Yet, there are historical facts and figures that this author is showing. I am not a student of history, yet I believe that some of these things have actually happened in the history (like Trojan Horse). So, though this is not a history book, I think that some of its facts have some sort of a historical value
“There is only one thing a philosopher can be relied upon to do, and that is to contradict other philosophers”

– William James
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Re: Can studying history be of any importance?

Post by Sculptor1 »

Sushan wrote: March 5th, 2021, 11:52 am
Sculptor1 wrote: March 5th, 2021, 7:03 am
Sushan wrote: March 4th, 2021, 12:59 pm
Sculptor1 wrote: March 4th, 2021, 8:05 am
I did not say there was a connection. I said it is munbo-jumbo a the level of Qanon.

People who accept mubo-jumbo as important are not doing philosophy. This is a philosophy forum

Non sequitur

Non sequitur

That is why I am pointing out as preaching.


There is no history here.
Well, if this book is preaching and there is no history, we can stop discussing it. Yet, the question was about importance of studying history. We could have still discussed about that because this author has actually done a extensive research related to the biblical history, of which some details have an actual historical value. Under such a topic, when the discussion goes on about preaching, then the whole discussion becomes non sequitur. Anyway, thank you for the valuable contribution
I am a student of history.
All books of myth including The Iliad, the Aeneid, can be tapped for historical content, but only if you disregard the obviously fantastical claims such as talking horses, cyclopses and witches.
We can extend this to the Mahabarata, and many other ancient books.
But were we to claim that there was really a Blue Boy with magical powers, we would not be doing philosophy. As one does not accept the impregnability of Achilleus, we cannot also pretend that there was a monkey god who could shapeshift.
The works of Homer do relate that a war between Greek speakers and inhabitants of "Troy" took place. WHilst it is likley that such a conflict did happen, it is speculation that any of the characters involved were in any sense real people. What is useful to reflect upon is that later Greek speaking Poleis did consider it part of their history, few rational people would even than have accepted the god-like characteristics described of the heroes.

The book in question does not treat the bible in an appropriate way. It is not history, but it is simply Apologism.
I agree. Seemingly the author's intention has been giving some legitimacy for a mythical bbiblical story by comparing it with compelling scientific evidence. Yet, there are historical facts and figures that this author is showing. I am not a student of history, yet I believe that some of these things have actually happened in the history (like Trojan Horse). So, though this is not a history book, I think that some of its facts have some sort of a historical value
Their is no evidence for a Trojan horse.
I doubt this book has anything of historical value.
The author is not a historian. He qualified as in engineering physics, and this book is "delf published" - in other world no publisher was willing to take it on.
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Re: Can studying history be of any importance?

Post by Sushan »

Sculptor1 wrote: March 5th, 2021, 4:28 pm
Sushan wrote: March 5th, 2021, 11:52 am
Sculptor1 wrote: March 5th, 2021, 7:03 am
Sushan wrote: March 4th, 2021, 12:59 pm

Well, if this book is preaching and there is no history, we can stop discussing it. Yet, the question was about importance of studying history. We could have still discussed about that because this author has actually done a extensive research related to the biblical history, of which some details have an actual historical value. Under such a topic, when the discussion goes on about preaching, then the whole discussion becomes non sequitur. Anyway, thank you for the valuable contribution
I am a student of history.
All books of myth including The Iliad, the Aeneid, can be tapped for historical content, but only if you disregard the obviously fantastical claims such as talking horses, cyclopses and witches.
We can extend this to the Mahabarata, and many other ancient books.
But were we to claim that there was really a Blue Boy with magical powers, we would not be doing philosophy. As one does not accept the impregnability of Achilleus, we cannot also pretend that there was a monkey god who could shapeshift.
The works of Homer do relate that a war between Greek speakers and inhabitants of "Troy" took place. WHilst it is likley that such a conflict did happen, it is speculation that any of the characters involved were in any sense real people. What is useful to reflect upon is that later Greek speaking Poleis did consider it part of their history, few rational people would even than have accepted the god-like characteristics described of the heroes.

The book in question does not treat the bible in an appropriate way. It is not history, but it is simply Apologism.
I agree. Seemingly the author's intention has been giving some legitimacy for a mythical bbiblical story by comparing it with compelling scientific evidence. Yet, there are historical facts and figures that this author is showing. I am not a student of history, yet I believe that some of these things have actually happened in the history (like Trojan Horse). So, though this is not a history book, I think that some of its facts have some sort of a historical value
Their is no evidence for a Trojan horse.
I doubt this book has anything of historical value.
The author is not a historian. He qualified as in engineering physics, and this book is "delf published" - in other world no publisher was willing to take it on.
I see. Trojan horse was just a creation of Homer. But the attack on Troy was true. So maybe the biblical stories have that sort of a historical value.

And, yes, this author was not a historian, but he claims of studying the various scriptures (and I understand that scriptures cannot be taken as historical evidence either). And the book is self-published, and we actually do not know why is that, because this book has got many positive reviews and some author should have agreed to publish it. Maybe the author just self-published it.

Anyway, I agree with your point on that this book or this author's area of interest is not of any value when it comes to studying history.
“There is only one thing a philosopher can be relied upon to do, and that is to contradict other philosophers”

– William James
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Re: Can studying history be of any importance?

Post by Sculptor1 »

Sushan wrote: March 5th, 2021, 11:21 pm
Sculptor1 wrote: March 5th, 2021, 4:28 pm
Sushan wrote: March 5th, 2021, 11:52 am
Sculptor1 wrote: March 5th, 2021, 7:03 am

I am a student of history.
All books of myth including The Iliad, the Aeneid, can be tapped for historical content, but only if you disregard the obviously fantastical claims such as talking horses, cyclopses and witches.
We can extend this to the Mahabarata, and many other ancient books.
But were we to claim that there was really a Blue Boy with magical powers, we would not be doing philosophy. As one does not accept the impregnability of Achilleus, we cannot also pretend that there was a monkey god who could shapeshift.
The works of Homer do relate that a war between Greek speakers and inhabitants of "Troy" took place. WHilst it is likley that such a conflict did happen, it is speculation that any of the characters involved were in any sense real people. What is useful to reflect upon is that later Greek speaking Poleis did consider it part of their history, few rational people would even than have accepted the god-like characteristics described of the heroes.

The book in question does not treat the bible in an appropriate way. It is not history, but it is simply Apologism.
I agree. Seemingly the author's intention has been giving some legitimacy for a mythical bbiblical story by comparing it with compelling scientific evidence. Yet, there are historical facts and figures that this author is showing. I am not a student of history, yet I believe that some of these things have actually happened in the history (like Trojan Horse). So, though this is not a history book, I think that some of its facts have some sort of a historical value
Their is no evidence for a Trojan horse.
I doubt this book has anything of historical value.
The author is not a historian. He qualified as in engineering physics, and this book is "delf published" - in other world no publisher was willing to take it on.
I see. Trojan horse was just a creation of Homer.
No. You are not speaking from knowledge.
The horse does not appear in Homer.
It comes to us through Virgil
But the attack on Troy was true. So maybe the biblical stories have that sort of a historical value.
The location is Troy is still a speculation.
Wars are a constant factor of humanity, and it is no surprise that Schleiman found a buned level at the site he took to be Troy but later archaeology (where the evidence had not been completely ruined by his digging) shows that the burned layer on the site was at least 700 years earlier.
As of today the many sites that are candidates may or may not refer to what is essentially a "story" and not an "account" of an actual event. Most scholars regard Homer as giving a consdensed view of a long oral history.
I can tell you more about this, if you are interested, since I studied this in detail.
As for the bible, there are many inconsistencies and downright falsehoods.
Even so mundane a fact as Jews in Egypt is a speculation for several reasons.
There is not one scrap of evidence fro Egypt of the Jews ever being there. And compared to all other places Egypt provides the richest source of ancient history.

So what the bible is useful for is to understand how religions seek to invent for themselves a deeper history. Judaism was a new religous movement that emerged as late as 700bc, and they basically invented the genesis and exodus story it seems, from a point of ignorance.
Tell me why they thought the name of the ruler of Egypt was "Pharoah"? They did not seem to know which one. If they had then it would have been possible to date the exodus.

But the clown who wrote and self-published this book is not interested in any of that. He want so understand the meaning of the universe from the accounts of some post dark age goat herders.
This is insane.


And, yes, this author was not a historian, but he claims of studying the various scriptures (and I understand that scriptures cannot be taken as historical evidence either). And the book is self-published, and we actually do not know why is that, because this book has got many positive reviews and some author should have agreed to publish it. Maybe the author just self-published it.

Anyway, I agree with your point on that this book or this author's area of interest is not of any value when it comes to studying history.
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Sushan
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Re: Can studying history be of any importance?

Post by Sushan »

Sculptor1 wrote: March 6th, 2021, 8:36 am
Sushan wrote: March 5th, 2021, 11:21 pm
Sculptor1 wrote: March 5th, 2021, 4:28 pm
Sushan wrote: March 5th, 2021, 11:52 am

I agree. Seemingly the author's intention has been giving some legitimacy for a mythical bbiblical story by comparing it with compelling scientific evidence. Yet, there are historical facts and figures that this author is showing. I am not a student of history, yet I believe that some of these things have actually happened in the history (like Trojan Horse). So, though this is not a history book, I think that some of its facts have some sort of a historical value
Their is no evidence for a Trojan horse.
I doubt this book has anything of historical value.
The author is not a historian. He qualified as in engineering physics, and this book is "delf published" - in other world no publisher was willing to take it on.
I see. Trojan horse was just a creation of Homer.
No. You are not speaking from knowledge.
The horse does not appear in Homer.
It comes to us through Virgil
But the attack on Troy was true. So maybe the biblical stories have that sort of a historical value.
The location is Troy is still a speculation.
Wars are a constant factor of humanity, and it is no surprise that Schleiman found a buned level at the site he took to be Troy but later archaeology (where the evidence had not been completely ruined by his digging) shows that the burned layer on the site was at least 700 years earlier.
As of today the many sites that are candidates may or may not refer to what is essentially a "story" and not an "account" of an actual event. Most scholars regard Homer as giving a consdensed view of a long oral history.
I can tell you more about this, if you are interested, since I studied this in detail.
As for the bible, there are many inconsistencies and downright falsehoods.
Even so mundane a fact as Jews in Egypt is a speculation for several reasons.
There is not one scrap of evidence fro Egypt of the Jews ever being there. And compared to all other places Egypt provides the richest source of ancient history.

So what the bible is useful for is to understand how religions seek to invent for themselves a deeper history. Judaism was a new religous movement that emerged as late as 700bc, and they basically invented the genesis and exodus story it seems, from a point of ignorance.
Tell me why they thought the name of the ruler of Egypt was "Pharoah"? They did not seem to know which one. If they had then it would have been possible to date the exodus.

But the clown who wrote and self-published this book is not interested in any of that. He want so understand the meaning of the universe from the accounts of some post dark age goat herders.
This is insane.


And, yes, this author was not a historian, but he claims of studying the various scriptures (and I understand that scriptures cannot be taken as historical evidence either). And the book is self-published, and we actually do not know why is that, because this book has got many positive reviews and some author should have agreed to publish it. Maybe the author just self-published it.

Anyway, I agree with your point on that this book or this author's area of interest is not of any value when it comes to studying history.
I have not studied history in the manner that you have done. So I have only some common knowledge and there is a high chance for that to be false. I would like to here more regarding this war of Troy (or this so called 'speculation') from your deep and vast knowledge.

I agree. The Bible cannot be taken as a true historical data source. And also, seemingly, this author has no intention on giving a historically accurate story, but to just prove what he found by studying religious scriptures, logically and scientifically.
“There is only one thing a philosopher can be relied upon to do, and that is to contradict other philosophers”

– William James
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