Roadmap to scientific spirituality!

Discuss the March 2021 Philosophy Book of the Month, The Biblical Clock: The Untold Secrets Linking the Universe and Humanity with God’s Plan by Daniel Friedmann.
User avatar
Renold vijay
New Trial Member
Posts: 1
Joined: June 2nd, 2021, 1:14 pm

Roadmap to scientific spirituality!

Post by Renold vijay »

At first I thought it was just a waste of time comparing science with scriptures as I ready the title of "Bibilical clock". But after reading few pages the authors have convinced me about different timelines of connecting biblical context to science. I wish to present a honest review once I complete the book. :)
Nick_A
Posts: 2964
Joined: April 19th, 2009, 11:45 pm

Re: Roadmap to scientific spirituality!

Post by Nick_A »

Renold vijay wrote: June 5th, 2021, 1:35 pm At first I thought it was just a waste of time comparing science with scriptures as I ready the title of "Bibilical clock". But after reading few pages the authors have convinced me about different timelines of connecting biblical context to science. I wish to present a honest review once I complete the book. :)
Please tell me if the author provides examples of how science verifies religion. It will be a step in the right direction.

Simone Weil wrote:
I believe that one identical thought is to be found—expressed very precisely and with only slight differences of modality—in. . .Pythagoras, Plato, and the Greek Stoics. . .in the Upanishads, and the Bhagavad Gita; in the Chinese Taoist writings and. . .Buddhism. . .in the dogmas of the Christian faith and in the writings of the greatest Christian mystics. . .I believe that this thought is the truth, and that it today requires a modern and Western form of expression. That is to say, it should be expressed through the only approximately good thing we can call our own, namely science. This is all the less difficult because it is itself the origin of science. Simone Weil….Simone Pétrement, Simone Weil: A Life, Random House, 1976, p. 488
Man would like to be an egoist and cannot. This is the most striking characteristic of his wretchedness and the source of his greatness." Simone Weil....Gravity and Grace
User avatar
Sculptor1
Posts: 4149
Joined: May 16th, 2019, 5:35 am

Re: Roadmap to scientific spirituality!

Post by Sculptor1 »

Renold vijay wrote: June 5th, 2021, 1:35 pm At first I thought it was just a waste of time comparing science with scriptures as I ready the title of "Bibilical clock". But after reading few pages the authors have convinced me about different timelines of connecting biblical context to science. I wish to present a honest review once I complete the book. :)
I think you were originally correct that it is indeed a waste of time comparing science with scriptures.
Science and Scripture occupy different magisteria, and any comparisons made are false.
Would you can to share any specific reflections?
User avatar
Sushan
Book of the Month Discussion Leader
Posts: 452
Joined: February 19th, 2021, 8:12 pm
Contact:

Re: Roadmap to scientific spirituality!

Post by Sushan »

I can agree partially. I am not certain about the accuracy of the details or the connections that the author highlights. But he has written it in a convincing manner, and even I, who never believed in these creation related stories, gave a second thought to the contents in the book. Anyway, we have to keep in mind that all these historical authors were devotees to the God and their so called historical notes ccould have been pretty much biased. So you can read the whole thing but you have to digest it with caution.
“There is only one thing a philosopher can be relied upon to do, and that is to contradict other philosophers”

– William James
User avatar
Sushan
Book of the Month Discussion Leader
Posts: 452
Joined: February 19th, 2021, 8:12 pm
Contact:

Re: Roadmap to scientific spirituality!

Post by Sushan »

Nick_A wrote: June 6th, 2021, 6:01 pm
Renold vijay wrote: June 5th, 2021, 1:35 pm At first I thought it was just a waste of time comparing science with scriptures as I ready the title of "Bibilical clock". But after reading few pages the authors have convinced me about different timelines of connecting biblical context to science. I wish to present a honest review once I complete the book. :)
Please tell me if the author provides examples of how science verifies religion. It will be a step in the right direction.

Simone Weil wrote:
I believe that one identical thought is to be found—expressed very precisely and with only slight differences of modality—in. . .Pythagoras, Plato, and the Greek Stoics. . .in the Upanishads, and the Bhagavad Gita; in the Chinese Taoist writings and. . .Buddhism. . .in the dogmas of the Christian faith and in the writings of the greatest Christian mystics. . .I believe that this thought is the truth, and that it today requires a modern and Western form of expression. That is to say, it should be expressed through the only approximately good thing we can call our own, namely science. This is all the less difficult because it is itself the origin of science. Simone Weil….Simone Pétrement, Simone Weil: A Life, Random House, 1976, p. 488
Yes. I too think each and every religion or the philosophies have more or less similar things in their core that are covered with various myths and beliefs that are unique to those religions or philosophies, which clearly reflect the thoughts and beliefs of the relevant eras and geographical areas. Today with the scientific advancements we see that many of these myths are unbelievable, and so we merely ignore the core values of these teachings as well. I think all these has to be interpreted in a novel and a scientific manner, and then we will be able to apply them and make use of them in the today's world.
“There is only one thing a philosopher can be relied upon to do, and that is to contradict other philosophers”

– William James
User avatar
Sushan
Book of the Month Discussion Leader
Posts: 452
Joined: February 19th, 2021, 8:12 pm
Contact:

Re: Roadmap to scientific spirituality!

Post by Sushan »

Sculptor1 wrote: June 6th, 2021, 6:52 pm
Renold vijay wrote: June 5th, 2021, 1:35 pm At first I thought it was just a waste of time comparing science with scriptures as I ready the title of "Bibilical clock". But after reading few pages the authors have convinced me about different timelines of connecting biblical context to science. I wish to present a honest review once I complete the book. :)
I think you were originally correct that it is indeed a waste of time comparing science with scriptures.
Science and Scripture occupy different magisteria, and any comparisons made are false.
Would you can to share any specific reflections?
That can indeed be a waste of time. But I think such comparisons and related arguments are interesting. They reveal the thinking patterns of philosophers who will either take the side of religion or science. Anyway, there is no result in comparing these two, and it is better to select the valuable facts and theories from each category and utilize them for the betterment of the world.
“There is only one thing a philosopher can be relied upon to do, and that is to contradict other philosophers”

– William James
User avatar
Sculptor1
Posts: 4149
Joined: May 16th, 2019, 5:35 am

Re: Roadmap to scientific spirituality!

Post by Sculptor1 »

Sushan wrote: July 19th, 2021, 12:26 am
Sculptor1 wrote: June 6th, 2021, 6:52 pm
Renold vijay wrote: June 5th, 2021, 1:35 pm At first I thought it was just a waste of time comparing science with scriptures as I ready the title of "Bibilical clock". But after reading few pages the authors have convinced me about different timelines of connecting biblical context to science. I wish to present a honest review once I complete the book. :)
I think you were originally correct that it is indeed a waste of time comparing science with scriptures.
Science and Scripture occupy different magisteria, and any comparisons made are false.
Would you can to share any specific reflections?
That can indeed be a waste of time. But I think such comparisons and related arguments are interesting. They reveal the thinking patterns of philosophers who will either take the side of religion or science. Anyway, there is no result in comparing these two, and it is better to select the valuable facts and theories from each category and utilize them for the betterment of the world.
Religion is not involved in the betterment of the world, though it might think that.
Science can be, but that is not its primary focus
It is the job of science to describe the world in ever more detail. This description tends to reveal how things work. There is nothing whatever in religion to compare that.
Religion is an early form of morality and politics. It gives itself credibility by inventing cosmologies. Since science has invalidated those cosmologies, with those awful things called "facts", religion has been undermined. Religon has made many efforts to surpress science. But the failure to censor the truth has just made the efforts of religion absurd.
It is a reflection of he idiocy of humanity that religions persist.
Religion has nothing to offer.
User avatar
Robert66
Posts: 374
Joined: April 20th, 2014, 5:13 pm

Re: Roadmap to scientific spirituality!

Post by Robert66 »

Try to imagine a person with average intelligence. I know it is a kind of weird thing to do, but go on. You might think well, I am about average in intelligence - there is a lot of stuff I know, and a lot I don't. Some things are so hard to grasp that you might think no one could even know the answer: is there a God?; the beginning of time; what happens beyond the universe; why does hair grow everywhere except on my head? Even really intelligent people struggle with some questions.

Now remember that half the human population are below average intelligence. Like it or not, these people are in the market for religion. And not surprisingly it is a massive marketplace. Some of the products are not bad. Love thy neighbour, Judge not lest ye be judged ... nothing wrong with that kind of thing. But some of religion's products are the worst kind of evil **** ever invented - worse than Jeeps - and they will destroy you, and cause war, and make life hell.

Thankfully science provides plenty of answers, however when compared to an orange-tinted demagogue urging you to drink bleach, science can seem a bit prosaic even boring, so the problem of what to do with the below average intelligence half of the population will remain. Education could certainly help, but a smarter population would interfere with the plans of the demagogues. So lots of schoolkids even now are taught creationism as if it were factual, and in some parts education is very limited even disallowed if you are female. And despite the human tendency toward destruction including self-destruction, the so-called clever ape still believes he should be in charge So you can thank religion for the sorry mess the world continues to be in.

Then you get otherwise intelligent-seeming people who just have to try and bridge the gap, let's say chasm, between science and religion. For the love of Peanuts I wish they would not bother.
User avatar
Pattern-chaser
Posts: 2586
Joined: September 22nd, 2019, 5:17 am
Favorite Philosopher: Cratylus
Location: England

Re: Roadmap to scientific spirituality!

Post by Pattern-chaser »

Nick_A wrote: June 6th, 2021, 6:01 pm Please tell me if the author provides examples of how science verifies religion.
I don't think science has a method or technique that allows for verification. Science uses 'not-yet-falsified' instead. This is science's greatest strength, as well as its greatest weakness, IMO.
Pattern-chaser

"Who cares, wins"
Stoic Spirit
Posts: 11
Joined: July 26th, 2021, 10:03 am

Re: Roadmap to scientific spirituality!

Post by Stoic Spirit »

The science is awesome, but science alone does not give an answer to philosophical and moral issues, nor it is its duty either. Religion on the other hand strives to make representation of morality in transcendental God. It doesn’t matter for the question of whether the God exists or not.

The intention that matters.

SP
fionaimmodest
Posts: 24
Joined: March 23rd, 2020, 11:57 pm

Re: Roadmap to scientific spirituality!

Post by fionaimmodest »

When you let go of individual survival, all of your priorities change because you actually see the entire world as your body. You see the suffering of others as your own suffering and you want to help. What is the actual power of a human being to really benefit the world, when they are able to put the priorities of the whole system in front of themselves, even if that means they have to die in the process? How many of us can do that right now?

What if seven billion of us did that?

Maybe the one thing that keeps us from actually solving all of the other problems in the world is this persistent, flawed thought that we are separate from the world. Maybe it’s time we change our minds.”
Fellowmater
Posts: 77
Joined: November 23rd, 2017, 11:12 pm

Re: Roadmap to scientific spirituality!

Post by Fellowmater »

Let us embark on the vaguely inexplicable subjectivity of spirituality, and to conspicuously assume we can engage in discourse over the objectivity of spirituality is folly because each individual blabber their mutually exclusive delusion of grandeur. Now let's exclude religiosity from the equation and embrace spirituality as an independent secular factor, "sounds like a contradiction," but many treat religiosity and spirituality in stark contrast. Spirituality seems to dwell on the non-materialistic attributes of existence, a connection to the intangible being or the nature or essence of a man. A divine sacred embodiment or liturgy connection with the intangible, a meaning to life, one that transcends beyond worldly interest, an intrinsic joy, unity, acceptance, significance, or personal rapport with the universe. Or an external divine intervention that predicates the narratives of life. A complete vaguely inexplicable mumbo-jumbo gibberish that's contingent on the subjectivity of one's delusion.
Nick_A
Posts: 2964
Joined: April 19th, 2009, 11:45 pm

Re: Roadmap to scientific spirituality!

Post by Nick_A »

fionaimmodest wrote: August 13th, 2021, 5:46 am When you let go of individual survival, all of your priorities change because you actually see the entire world as your body. You see the suffering of others as your own suffering and you want to help. What is the actual power of a human being to really benefit the world, when they are able to put the priorities of the whole system in front of themselves, even if that means they have to die in the process? How many of us can do that right now?

What if seven billion of us did that?

Maybe the one thing that keeps us from actually solving all of the other problems in the world is this persistent, flawed thought that we are separate from the world. Maybe it’s time we change our minds.”
Helo Fiona

You seem open to contemplating the essence of religion and philosophy below the psychological surface rather than arguing about Trump. It seems to me that an intelligent rather than an indoctrinated person could put scientific facts into "meaning." Facts are easy to prove but for many what provides meaning is a subjective concept acquired by family, friends, and society. However some believe in objective meaning. This means that meaning is a universal perennial truth that Man can "remember" through conscience. Do you believe that objective meaning is a reality or are we limited to invented subjective expressions of meaning that vanish as Man becomes extinct?
Man would like to be an egoist and cannot. This is the most striking characteristic of his wretchedness and the source of his greatness." Simone Weil....Gravity and Grace
Tegularius
Posts: 345
Joined: February 6th, 2021, 5:27 am

Re: Roadmap to scientific spirituality!

Post by Tegularius »

Nick_A wrote: August 23rd, 2021, 1:18 pm
fionaimmodest wrote: August 13th, 2021, 5:46 am When you let go of individual survival, all of your priorities change because you actually see the entire world as your body. You see the suffering of others as your own suffering and you want to help. What is the actual power of a human being to really benefit the world, when they are able to put the priorities of the whole system in front of themselves, even if that means they have to die in the process? How many of us can do that right now?

What if seven billion of us did that?

Maybe the one thing that keeps us from actually solving all of the other problems in the world is this persistent, flawed thought that we are separate from the world. Maybe it’s time we change our minds.”
Helo Fiona

You seem open to contemplating the essence of religion and philosophy below the psychological surface rather than arguing about Trump. It seems to me that an intelligent rather than an indoctrinated person could put scientific facts into "meaning." Facts are easy to prove but for many what provides meaning is a subjective concept acquired by family, friends, and society. However some believe in objective meaning. This means that meaning is a universal perennial truth that Man can "remember" through conscience. Do you believe that objective meaning is a reality or are we limited to invented subjective expressions of meaning that vanish as Man becomes extinct?
Does that mean that just about any meaning will do, the kind conscience will accept as universal even though there's no such thing??
Nick_A
Posts: 2964
Joined: April 19th, 2009, 11:45 pm

Re: Roadmap to scientific spirituality!

Post by Nick_A »

Tegularius wrote: August 23rd, 2021, 6:47 pm
Nick_A wrote: August 23rd, 2021, 1:18 pm
fionaimmodest wrote: August 13th, 2021, 5:46 am When you let go of individual survival, all of your priorities change because you actually see the entire world as your body. You see the suffering of others as your own suffering and you want to help. What is the actual power of a human being to really benefit the world, when they are able to put the priorities of the whole system in front of themselves, even if that means they have to die in the process? How many of us can do that right now?

What if seven billion of us did that?

Maybe the one thing that keeps us from actually solving all of the other problems in the world is this persistent, flawed thought that we are separate from the world. Maybe it’s time we change our minds.”
Helo Fiona

You seem open to contemplating the essence of religion and philosophy below the psychological surface rather than arguing about Trump. It seems to me that an intelligent rather than an indoctrinated person could put scientific facts into "meaning." Facts are easy to prove but for many what provides meaning is a subjective concept acquired by family, friends, and society. However some believe in objective meaning. This means that meaning is a universal perennial truth that Man can "remember" through conscience. Do you believe that objective meaning is a reality or are we limited to invented subjective expressions of meaning that vanish as Man becomes extinct?
Does that mean that just about any meaning will do, the kind conscience will accept as universal even though there's no such thing??
I

I already know that you deny objective meaning and an objective purpose for our universe. But Fiona's style indicates she has thought deeper on the potential for objective meaning and why it is hidden from Man as he normally is.
Man would like to be an egoist and cannot. This is the most striking characteristic of his wretchedness and the source of his greatness." Simone Weil....Gravity and Grace
Post Reply

Return to “The Biblical Clock by Daniel Friedmann”

Philosophy Books of the Month

The Biblical Clock: The Untold Secrets Linking the Universe and Humanity with God's Plan

The Biblical Clock
by Daniel Friedmann
March 2021

Wilderness Cry: A Scientific and Philosophical Approach to Understanding God and the Universe

Wilderness Cry
by Dr. Hilary L Hunt M.D.
April 2021

Fear Not, Dream Big, & Execute: Tools To Spark Your Dream And Ignite Your Follow-Through

Fear Not, Dream Big, & Execute
by Jeff Meyer
May 2021

Surviving the Business of Healthcare: Knowledge is Power

Surviving the Business of Healthcare
by Barbara Galutia Regis M.S. PA-C
June 2021

Winning the War on Cancer: The Epic Journey Towards a Natural Cure

Winning the War on Cancer
by Sylvie Beljanski
July 2021

Defining Moments of a Free Man from a Black Stream

Defining Moments of a Free Man from a Black Stream
by Dr Frank L Douglas
August 2021

If Life Stinks, Get Your Head Outta Your Buts

If Life Stinks, Get Your Head Outta Your Buts
by Mark L. Wdowiak
September 2021

The Preppers Medical Handbook

The Preppers Medical Handbook
by Dr. William W Forgey M.D.
October 2021

Natural Relief for Anxiety and Stress: A Practical Guide

Natural Relief for Anxiety and Stress
by Dr. Gustavo Kinrys, MD
November 2021

Dream For Peace: An Ambassador Memoir

Dream For Peace
by Dr. Ghoulem Berrah
December 2021