Roadmap to scientific spirituality!

Discuss the March 2021 Philosophy Book of the Month, The Biblical Clock: The Untold Secrets Linking the Universe and Humanity with God’s Plan by Daniel Friedmann.
Tegularius
Posts: 598
Joined: February 6th, 2021, 5:27 am

Re: Roadmap to scientific spirituality!

Post by Tegularius »

Nick_A wrote: August 23rd, 2021, 7:20 pm
Tegularius wrote: August 23rd, 2021, 6:47 pm
Nick_A wrote: August 23rd, 2021, 1:18 pm
fionaimmodest wrote: August 13th, 2021, 5:46 am When you let go of individual survival, all of your priorities change because you actually see the entire world as your body. You see the suffering of others as your own suffering and you want to help. What is the actual power of a human being to really benefit the world, when they are able to put the priorities of the whole system in front of themselves, even if that means they have to die in the process? How many of us can do that right now?

What if seven billion of us did that?

Maybe the one thing that keeps us from actually solving all of the other problems in the world is this persistent, flawed thought that we are separate from the world. Maybe it’s time we change our minds.”
Helo Fiona

You seem open to contemplating the essence of religion and philosophy below the psychological surface rather than arguing about Trump. It seems to me that an intelligent rather than an indoctrinated person could put scientific facts into "meaning." Facts are easy to prove but for many what provides meaning is a subjective concept acquired by family, friends, and society. However some believe in objective meaning. This means that meaning is a universal perennial truth that Man can "remember" through conscience. Do you believe that objective meaning is a reality or are we limited to invented subjective expressions of meaning that vanish as Man becomes extinct?
Does that mean that just about any meaning will do, the kind conscience will accept as universal even though there's no such thing??
I

I already know that you deny objective meaning and an objective purpose for our universe. But Fiona's style indicates she has thought deeper on the potential for objective meaning and why it is hidden from Man as he normally is.
Ever think that "thinking deeper" can actually distort objectivity into meaning whatever you want it to mean, thereby forcing it into constraints of what amounts to something deeply personal having no relation to universal truth of any kind. It's the easiest thing in the world to talk about meaning as if it could be absolutely defined by some universal objective without ever once having to qualify it in some manner. It's common for human brains to fill a universe void of meaning by a perennial mythologization of it.

You keep claiming objective meaning and an objective purpose for our universe. Care to give an example which renders it our universe beyond merely stating some vague objectivity?

Universal meaning, compared to any and all human values of meaning, is a bogus variable impossible to qualify except in purely human terms which invariably, through wishful thinking, emphasizes its own conditions of Universality.
The earth has a skin and that skin has diseases; one of its diseases is called man ... Nietzsche
Nick_A
Posts: 3306
Joined: April 19th, 2009, 11:45 pm

Re: Roadmap to scientific spirituality!

Post by Nick_A »

Tegularius wrote: August 23rd, 2021, 8:26 pm
Nick_A wrote: August 23rd, 2021, 7:20 pm
Tegularius wrote: August 23rd, 2021, 6:47 pm
Nick_A wrote: August 23rd, 2021, 1:18 pm

Helo Fiona

You seem open to contemplating the essence of religion and philosophy below the psychological surface rather than arguing about Trump. It seems to me that an intelligent rather than an indoctrinated person could put scientific facts into "meaning." Facts are easy to prove but for many what provides meaning is a subjective concept acquired by family, friends, and society. However some believe in objective meaning. This means that meaning is a universal perennial truth that Man can "remember" through conscience. Do you believe that objective meaning is a reality or are we limited to invented subjective expressions of meaning that vanish as Man becomes extinct?
Does that mean that just about any meaning will do, the kind conscience will accept as universal even though there's no such thing??
I

I already know that you deny objective meaning and an objective purpose for our universe. But Fiona's style indicates she has thought deeper on the potential for objective meaning and why it is hidden from Man as he normally is.
Ever think that "thinking deeper" can actually distort objectivity into meaning whatever you want it to mean, thereby forcing it into constraints of what amounts to something deeply personal having no relation to universal truth of any kind. It's the easiest thing in the world to talk about meaning as if it could be absolutely defined by some universal objective without ever once having to qualify it in some manner. It's common for human brains to fill a universe void of meaning by a perennial mythologization of it.

You keep claiming objective meaning and an objective purpose for our universe. Care to give an example which renders it our universe beyond merely stating some vague objectivity?

Universal meaning, compared to any and all human values of meaning, is a bogus variable impossible to qualify except in purely human terms which invariably, through wishful thinking, emphasizes its own conditions of Universality.
I don't know what you mean by thinking deeper. Is it just fantasizing for you or just adding more thoughts on top of thoughts.

Thinking deeper for me requires opening to intuition. Einstein explains. It may be absurd to you but I do like to converse with those not in denial.
1930
"Many people think that the progress of the human race is based on experiences of an empirical, critical nature, but I say that true knowledge is to be had only through a philosophy of deduction. For it is intuition that improves the world, not just following the trodden path of thought. Intuition makes us look at unrelated facts and then think about them until they can all be brought under one law. To look for related facts means holding onto what one has instead of searching for new facts. Intuition is the father of new knowledge, while empiricism is nothing but an accumulation of old knowledge. Intuition, not intellect, is the ‘open sesame’ of yourself." -- Albert Einstein, in Einstein and the Poet – In Search of the Cosmic Man by William Hermanns (Branden Press, 1983, p. 16.), conversation March 4, 1930
Thinking deeper doesn't require learning more facts but how they can be brought under one law. The philosophy of deduction as Einstein explains it isn't fantasy but a higher form of intellect
Man would like to be an egoist and cannot. This is the most striking characteristic of his wretchedness and the source of his greatness." Simone Weil....Gravity and Grace
Tegularius
Posts: 598
Joined: February 6th, 2021, 5:27 am

Re: Roadmap to scientific spirituality!

Post by Tegularius »

Nick_A wrote: August 23rd, 2021, 9:42 pm
Tegularius wrote: August 23rd, 2021, 8:26 pm
Nick_A wrote: August 23rd, 2021, 7:20 pm
Tegularius wrote: August 23rd, 2021, 6:47 pm

Does that mean that just about any meaning will do, the kind conscience will accept as universal even though there's no such thing??
I

I already know that you deny objective meaning and an objective purpose for our universe. But Fiona's style indicates she has thought deeper on the potential for objective meaning and why it is hidden from Man as he normally is.
Ever think that "thinking deeper" can actually distort objectivity into meaning whatever you want it to mean, thereby forcing it into constraints of what amounts to something deeply personal having no relation to universal truth of any kind. It's the easiest thing in the world to talk about meaning as if it could be absolutely defined by some universal objective without ever once having to qualify it in some manner. It's common for human brains to fill a universe void of meaning by a perennial mythologization of it.

You keep claiming objective meaning and an objective purpose for our universe. Care to give an example which renders it our universe beyond merely stating some vague objectivity?

Universal meaning, compared to any and all human values of meaning, is a bogus variable impossible to qualify except in purely human terms which invariably, through wishful thinking, emphasizes its own conditions of Universality.
I don't know what you mean by thinking deeper. Is it just fantasizing for you or just adding more thoughts on top of thoughts.

Thinking deeper for me requires opening to intuition. Einstein explains. It may be absurd to you but I do like to converse with those not in denial.
1930
"Many people think that the progress of the human race is based on experiences of an empirical, critical nature, but I say that true knowledge is to be had only through a philosophy of deduction. For it is intuition that improves the world, not just following the trodden path of thought. Intuition makes us look at unrelated facts and then think about them until they can all be brought under one law. To look for related facts means holding onto what one has instead of searching for new facts. Intuition is the father of new knowledge, while empiricism is nothing but an accumulation of old knowledge. Intuition, not intellect, is the ‘open sesame’ of yourself." -- Albert Einstein, in Einstein and the Poet – In Search of the Cosmic Man by William Hermanns (Branden Press, 1983, p. 16.), conversation March 4, 1930
Thinking deeper doesn't require learning more facts but how they can be brought under one law. The philosophy of deduction as Einstein explains it isn't fantasy but a higher form of intellect
Intuition has always been paramount in discovering new knowledge. Nothing new here. But you will note that Einstein never espoused any objective purpose for the universe existing as you continually do. You can't even describe, in your own words, even as a playful speculation, what that purpose would be!

From Eratosthenes to Einstein, and all the super geniuses in between, had they I.Q.'s of 1000 none would be able so denote any objective meaning to the universe which is governed solely by the most rigid and impersonal rules of physics. Humans and all life are obviously part of it conforming to the same rules.
The earth has a skin and that skin has diseases; one of its diseases is called man ... Nietzsche
Nick_A
Posts: 3306
Joined: April 19th, 2009, 11:45 pm

Re: Roadmap to scientific spirituality!

Post by Nick_A »

Tegularius, The purpose of our universe is to serve the necessity of the Beath of Brahma.
Time in Buddhist cosmology is measured in kalpas. Originally, a kalpa was considered to be 4,320,000 years. Buddhist scholars expanded it with a metaphor: rub a one-mile cube of rock once every hundred years with a piece of silk, until the rock is worn away -- and a kalpa still hasn’t passed! During a kalpa, the world comes into being, exists, is destroyed, and a period of emptiness ensues. Then it all starts again.
We live in a cyclical universe. Like our bodies, the universe is a machine which is an essential part of our Source much like our bodies are essential to our organism. Exhalation is the creation of our universe while inhalation returns it to its source. One breath is a kalpa

The universe is a necessary part of our Source. Some study the universe by learning how to "Know Thyself" When you know the purpose of your body, you will know the purpose of our universe. You can help the health of your body? Can mankind serve the purpose of the health of creation or the body of God? If true, it is obvious that humanity is unaware of how to serve the universe and demands to be served by the universe. A serious mistake.
Man would like to be an egoist and cannot. This is the most striking characteristic of his wretchedness and the source of his greatness." Simone Weil....Gravity and Grace
Tegularius
Posts: 598
Joined: February 6th, 2021, 5:27 am

Re: Roadmap to scientific spirituality!

Post by Tegularius »

Nick_A wrote: August 24th, 2021, 8:20 pm Tegularius, The purpose of our universe is to serve the necessity of the Beath of Brahma.
Time in Buddhist cosmology is measured in kalpas. Originally, a kalpa was considered to be 4,320,000 years. Buddhist scholars expanded it with a metaphor: rub a one-mile cube of rock once every hundred years with a piece of silk, until the rock is worn away -- and a kalpa still hasn’t passed! During a kalpa, the world comes into being, exists, is destroyed, and a period of emptiness ensues. Then it all starts again.
We live in a cyclical universe. Like our bodies, the universe is a machine which is an essential part of our Source much like our bodies are essential to our organism. Exhalation is the creation of our universe while inhalation returns it to its source. One breath is a kalpa

The universe is a necessary part of our Source. Some study the universe by learning how to "Know Thyself" When you know the purpose of your body, you will know the purpose of our universe. You can help the health of your body? Can mankind serve the purpose of the health of creation or the body of God? If true, it is obvious that humanity is unaware of how to serve the universe and demands to be served by the universe. A serious mistake.
I have no idea - and wonder if anyone else does - what this means in relation to a purpose or objective existing in the universe...

The purpose of our universe is to serve the necessity of the Beath of Brahma??

For at least 50 years, I've known what a Kalpa is including its metaphor. It's not as if I never studied these oriental religions and myths and how the two are blended especially in the East. All-in-all, I must say they are impressive beyond anything in the bible. This includes the Tibetan Book of the Dead which, it is said, C.G. Jung carried around with him wherever he went.

You don't know, and no one 2500 years ago could possibly know how the universe ends. It could indeed be cyclical, but that's only one scenario among a half dozen others according to MODERN COSMOLOGY.

Also note...and this seems to have escaped you, that what is cyclical in nature is THAT WAY according to its underlying rules! NOT because there is an objective or purpose to the universe, as you consistently claim. That which fails to conform, sooner or later, gets annulled without a wimper, which is how the universe recycles failure. Its rules are rigid.
The earth has a skin and that skin has diseases; one of its diseases is called man ... Nietzsche
Nick_A
Posts: 3306
Joined: April 19th, 2009, 11:45 pm

Re: Roadmap to scientific spirituality!

Post by Nick_A »

Tegularius wrote: August 25th, 2021, 5:24 pm
Nick_A wrote: August 24th, 2021, 8:20 pm Tegularius, The purpose of our universe is to serve the necessity of the Beath of Brahma.
Time in Buddhist cosmology is measured in kalpas. Originally, a kalpa was considered to be 4,320,000 years. Buddhist scholars expanded it with a metaphor: rub a one-mile cube of rock once every hundred years with a piece of silk, until the rock is worn away -- and a kalpa still hasn’t passed! During a kalpa, the world comes into being, exists, is destroyed, and a period of emptiness ensues. Then it all starts again.
We live in a cyclical universe. Like our bodies, the universe is a machine which is an essential part of our Source much like our bodies are essential to our organism. Exhalation is the creation of our universe while inhalation returns it to its source. One breath is a kalpa

The universe is a necessary part of our Source. Some study the universe by learning how to "Know Thyself" When you know the purpose of your body, you will know the purpose of our universe. You can help the health of your body? Can mankind serve the purpose of the health of creation or the body of God? If true, it is obvious that humanity is unaware of how to serve the universe and demands to be served by the universe. A serious mistake.
I have no idea - and wonder if anyone else does - what this means in relation to a purpose or objective existing in the universe...

The purpose of our universe is to serve the necessity of the Beath of Brahma??

For at least 50 years, I've known what a Kalpa is including its metaphor. It's not as if I never studied these oriental religions and myths and how the two are blended especially in the East. All-in-all, I must say they are impressive beyond anything in the bible. This includes the Tibetan Book of the Dead which, it is said, C.G. Jung carried around with him wherever he went.

You don't know, and no one 2500 years ago could possibly know how the universe ends. It could indeed be cyclical, but that's only one scenario among a half dozen others according to MODERN COSMOLOGY.

Also note...and this seems to have escaped you, that what is cyclical in nature is THAT WAY according to its underlying rules! NOT because there is an objective or purpose to the universe, as you consistently claim. That which fails to conform, sooner or later, gets annulled without a wimper, which is how the universe recycles failure. Its rules are rigid.
Christianity reveals the inner psychological direction which can answer my questions. The essence of Christianity or esoteric Christianity is a part of the perennial tradition which always was. The laws which sustain it make the universal machine possible. Conscious Man which devolved to become animal Man cannot feel the perennial perspective conscious Man is aware of so the world functions in darkness.

Conscious Man understands universal purpose but such knowledge just gets in the way of the dominant dualistic worldly perspective normal for animal Man. The path leading to conscious Man is far more attractive to those in search of meaning than the battle over dualistic opinions

The essence of the origin of conscious Man is far older than the fallen origin of animal Man so may understand what has been forgotten like the purpose of pyramids
Man would like to be an egoist and cannot. This is the most striking characteristic of his wretchedness and the source of his greatness." Simone Weil....Gravity and Grace
User avatar
Papus79
Posts: 1629
Joined: February 19th, 2017, 6:59 pm

Re: Roadmap to scientific spirituality!

Post by Papus79 »

While I wouldn't touch the bronze age book shelf on this one (except maybe Tao Te Ching) I do think something interesting is afoot in general.

I listen to stuff of the sort that Donald Hoffman and Chetan Prakash talk about with their sort of universal Darwinism where nature is conscious agents all the way down, I listen to Stephen Wolfram talking about his hypergraph and clarifying that he doesn't think the universe is 'conscious' but that it is 'intelligent' but that he considers consciousness a downgrade from intelligence, I'll hear Karl Friston talk about 'Free Energy Principal' and how life is a set of conditions conscribed by Markov blankets where that disequilibrium system survives by reducing entropy both internally and in the environment ('free' as in unused energy), then I'll listen to the GameB people talk about complex systems and sense making, then catch four hours of Josephine McCarthy on Glitch Bottle talking about her practices and experiences, 2020, the free Quaria course, and really circling back to the very Daoist sort of understanding that it's a current of consciousness that this all seems to be stemming and evolving from.

With every one of those, it's like the pins in a tumbler lining up before a door unlocks and opens.
People aren't fundamentally good or fundamentally bad, we're fundamentally trying to survive. It's the environment and culture which tells us what that's going to be.
Buzzard3
Posts: 19
Joined: January 26th, 2022, 12:09 am
Favorite Philosopher: Catdinal Robert Sarah
Location: Australia

Re: Roadmap to scientific spirituality!

Post by Buzzard3 »

"scientific spirituality" ... sounds suspiciously like an oxymoron to me.
User avatar
Sushan
Book of the Month Discussion Leader
Posts: 1143
Joined: February 19th, 2021, 8:12 pm
Contact:

Re: Roadmap to scientific spirituality!

Post by Sushan »

Sculptor1 wrote: July 19th, 2021, 3:20 am
Sushan wrote: July 19th, 2021, 12:26 am
Sculptor1 wrote: June 6th, 2021, 6:52 pm
Renold vijay wrote: June 5th, 2021, 1:35 pm At first I thought it was just a waste of time comparing science with scriptures as I ready the title of "Bibilical clock". But after reading few pages the authors have convinced me about different timelines of connecting biblical context to science. I wish to present a honest review once I complete the book. :)
I think you were originally correct that it is indeed a waste of time comparing science with scriptures.
Science and Scripture occupy different magisteria, and any comparisons made are false.
Would you can to share any specific reflections?
That can indeed be a waste of time. But I think such comparisons and related arguments are interesting. They reveal the thinking patterns of philosophers who will either take the side of religion or science. Anyway, there is no result in comparing these two, and it is better to select the valuable facts and theories from each category and utilize them for the betterment of the world.
Religion is not involved in the betterment of the world, though it might think that.
Science can be, but that is not its primary focus
It is the job of science to describe the world in ever more detail. This description tends to reveal how things work. There is nothing whatever in religion to compare that.
Religion is an early form of morality and politics. It gives itself credibility by inventing cosmologies. Since science has invalidated those cosmologies, with those awful things called "facts", religion has been undermined. Religon has made many efforts to surpress science. But the failure to censor the truth has just made the efforts of religion absurd.
It is a reflection of he idiocy of humanity that religions persist.
Religion has nothing to offer.
I agree with you. But as same as the science, religions have always attempted to explain how things happen and why things are there as they are. It was the origin of various religions when people tried to explain unexplainable things using marvellous ideas. With the advancement of science many of these religious teachings have lost their value. But religions have remained so far not because of the idiocy of humans, but because science is still lacking in many fields and those gaps are still filled (and dominated) by religious teachings and beliefs.
“There is only one thing a philosopher can be relied upon to do, and that is to contradict other philosophers”

– William James
User avatar
Sculptor1
Posts: 5273
Joined: May 16th, 2019, 5:35 am

Re: Roadmap to scientific spirituality!

Post by Sculptor1 »

Sushan wrote: August 28th, 2022, 5:16 am
Sculptor1 wrote: July 19th, 2021, 3:20 am
Sushan wrote: July 19th, 2021, 12:26 am
Sculptor1 wrote: June 6th, 2021, 6:52 pm

I think you were originally correct that it is indeed a waste of time comparing science with scriptures.
Science and Scripture occupy different magisteria, and any comparisons made are false.
Would you can to share any specific reflections?
That can indeed be a waste of time. But I think such comparisons and related arguments are interesting. They reveal the thinking patterns of philosophers who will either take the side of religion or science. Anyway, there is no result in comparing these two, and it is better to select the valuable facts and theories from each category and utilize them for the betterment of the world.
Religion is not involved in the betterment of the world, though it might think that.
Science can be, but that is not its primary focus
It is the job of science to describe the world in ever more detail. This description tends to reveal how things work. There is nothing whatever in religion to compare that.
Religion is an early form of morality and politics. It gives itself credibility by inventing cosmologies. Since science has invalidated those cosmologies, with those awful things called "facts", religion has been undermined. Religon has made many efforts to surpress science. But the failure to censor the truth has just made the efforts of religion absurd.
It is a reflection of he idiocy of humanity that religions persist.
Religion has nothing to offer.
I agree with you. But as same as the science, religions have always attempted to explain how things happen and why things are there as they are. It was the origin of various religions when people tried to explain unexplainable things using marvellous ideas. With the advancement of science many of these religious teachings have lost their value. But religions have remained so far not because of the idiocy of humans, but because science is still lacking in many fields and those gaps are still filled (and dominated) by religious teachings and beliefs.
Since the invention of cosmologies are not the primary focus of religion their persistence cannot be attributed to the limits of science. Science is growing way beyond the understanding of most people. It is so vast that a single human mind cannot know all there is not know.
I think what holds up religion, is little more than habit, and cultural indoctrination.
As children we are told what to think. When this indoctrination from the older generation ceases religion declines.
It seems only to persist through fear of death. Science says that death is an end. People find that pretty scary and so is one reason why classical dualism persists in out thinking, even amongst some scientists. The hope that we are not embodied entities but psyche en machina, to be eventually freed from our mortal prison
User avatar
Sushan
Book of the Month Discussion Leader
Posts: 1143
Joined: February 19th, 2021, 8:12 pm
Contact:

Re: Roadmap to scientific spirituality!

Post by Sushan »

Sculptor1 wrote: August 28th, 2022, 6:08 am
Sushan wrote: August 28th, 2022, 5:16 am
Sculptor1 wrote: July 19th, 2021, 3:20 am
Sushan wrote: July 19th, 2021, 12:26 am

That can indeed be a waste of time. But I think such comparisons and related arguments are interesting. They reveal the thinking patterns of philosophers who will either take the side of religion or science. Anyway, there is no result in comparing these two, and it is better to select the valuable facts and theories from each category and utilize them for the betterment of the world.
Religion is not involved in the betterment of the world, though it might think that.
Science can be, but that is not its primary focus
It is the job of science to describe the world in ever more detail. This description tends to reveal how things work. There is nothing whatever in religion to compare that.
Religion is an early form of morality and politics. It gives itself credibility by inventing cosmologies. Since science has invalidated those cosmologies, with those awful things called "facts", religion has been undermined. Religon has made many efforts to surpress science. But the failure to censor the truth has just made the efforts of religion absurd.
It is a reflection of he idiocy of humanity that religions persist.
Religion has nothing to offer.
I agree with you. But as same as the science, religions have always attempted to explain how things happen and why things are there as they are. It was the origin of various religions when people tried to explain unexplainable things using marvellous ideas. With the advancement of science many of these religious teachings have lost their value. But religions have remained so far not because of the idiocy of humans, but because science is still lacking in many fields and those gaps are still filled (and dominated) by religious teachings and beliefs.
Since the invention of cosmologies are not the primary focus of religion their persistence cannot be attributed to the limits of science. Science is growing way beyond the understanding of most people. It is so vast that a single human mind cannot know all there is not know.
I think what holds up religion, is little more than habit, and cultural indoctrination.
As children we are told what to think. When this indoctrination from the older generation ceases religion declines.
It seems only to persist through fear of death. Science says that death is an end. People find that pretty scary and so is one reason why classical dualism persists in out thinking, even amongst some scientists. The hope that we are not embodied entities but psyche en machina, to be eventually freed from our mortal prison
Fear towards death is utilized by religions to keep their followers towards the religions. Science is still fighting with this since it has not yet discovered what happens when a person dies. (Yes, it says that all the biological ffunctions cease to exist, but science has nothing to counter the post-death descriptions given by the religions, whether they are approved or not). So, religions dominate this gap and people tend to hold to religions in order to salvage their selves after death.
“There is only one thing a philosopher can be relied upon to do, and that is to contradict other philosophers”

– William James
User avatar
Sculptor1
Posts: 5273
Joined: May 16th, 2019, 5:35 am

Re: Roadmap to scientific spirituality!

Post by Sculptor1 »

Sushan wrote: August 28th, 2022, 6:43 am
Sculptor1 wrote: August 28th, 2022, 6:08 am
Sushan wrote: August 28th, 2022, 5:16 am
Sculptor1 wrote: July 19th, 2021, 3:20 am
Religion is not involved in the betterment of the world, though it might think that.
Science can be, but that is not its primary focus
It is the job of science to describe the world in ever more detail. This description tends to reveal how things work. There is nothing whatever in religion to compare that.
Religion is an early form of morality and politics. It gives itself credibility by inventing cosmologies. Since science has invalidated those cosmologies, with those awful things called "facts", religion has been undermined. Religon has made many efforts to surpress science. But the failure to censor the truth has just made the efforts of religion absurd.
It is a reflection of he idiocy of humanity that religions persist.
Religion has nothing to offer.
I agree with you. But as same as the science, religions have always attempted to explain how things happen and why things are there as they are. It was the origin of various religions when people tried to explain unexplainable things using marvellous ideas. With the advancement of science many of these religious teachings have lost their value. But religions have remained so far not because of the idiocy of humans, but because science is still lacking in many fields and those gaps are still filled (and dominated) by religious teachings and beliefs.
Since the invention of cosmologies are not the primary focus of religion their persistence cannot be attributed to the limits of science. Science is growing way beyond the understanding of most people. It is so vast that a single human mind cannot know all there is not know.
I think what holds up religion, is little more than habit, and cultural indoctrination.
As children we are told what to think. When this indoctrination from the older generation ceases religion declines.
It seems only to persist through fear of death. Science says that death is an end. People find that pretty scary and so is one reason why classical dualism persists in out thinking, even amongst some scientists. The hope that we are not embodied entities but psyche en machina, to be eventually freed from our mortal prison
Fear towards death is utilized by religions to keep their followers towards the religions. Science is still fighting with this since it has not yet discovered what happens when a person dies. (Yes, it says that all the biological ffunctions cease to exist, but science has nothing to counter the post-death descriptions given by the religions, whether they are approved or not). So, religions dominate this gap and people tend to hold to religions in order to salvage their selves after death.
Science is pretty damn clear what happens when you die. You just seem to be in denial of your own mortality - which kind of makes my point. You are still clinging to the hope that you are more than you are. Well you have no warrant for thinking that. And that is where religion gets its hold into you, and enslaves to the people.
But it is not just a simple conspiracy. The elites of the religion are as susceptible to the idea as the acolytes.

You can only be free if you accept your mortality.
User avatar
Papus79
Posts: 1629
Joined: February 19th, 2017, 6:59 pm

Re: Roadmap to scientific spirituality!

Post by Papus79 »

Sushan wrote: August 28th, 2022, 6:43 am Fear towards death is utilized by religions to keep their followers towards the religions. Science is still fighting with this since it has not yet discovered what happens when a person dies. (Yes, it says that all the biological ffunctions cease to exist, but science has nothing to counter the post-death descriptions given by the religions, whether they are approved or not). So, religions dominate this gap and people tend to hold to religions in order to salvage their selves after death.
NDE's by the truckload are starting to pick that apart though. What comes across is pretty lax and it creates a kind of emergency for established religion in that, for ease of requirements at least, it would win a race to the bottom on all sorts of grounds and it equally doesn't lend itself to being a developmentally cultivating framework (ie. harsh discipline) in quite the ways that traditional Abrahamic religions have.
People aren't fundamentally good or fundamentally bad, we're fundamentally trying to survive. It's the environment and culture which tells us what that's going to be.
Post Reply

Return to “The Biblical Clock by Daniel Friedmann”

2022 Philosophy Books of the Month

Emotional Intelligence At Work

Emotional Intelligence At Work
by Richard M Contino & Penelope J Holt
January 2022

Free Will, Do You Have It?

Free Will, Do You Have It?
by Albertus Kral
February 2022

My Enemy in Vietnam

My Enemy in Vietnam
by Billy Springer
March 2022

2X2 on the Ark

2X2 on the Ark
by Mary J Giuffra, PhD
April 2022

The Maestro Monologue

The Maestro Monologue
by Rob White
May 2022

What Makes America Great

What Makes America Great
by Bob Dowell
June 2022

The Truth Is Beyond Belief!

The Truth Is Beyond Belief!
by Jerry Durr
July 2022

Living in Color

Living in Color
by Mike Murphy
August 2022 (tentative)

The Not So Great American Novel

The Not So Great American Novel
by James E Doucette
September 2022

Mary Jane Whiteley Coggeshall, Hicksite Quaker, Iowa/National Suffragette And Her Speeches

Mary Jane Whiteley Coggeshall, Hicksite Quaker, Iowa/National Suffragette And Her Speeches
by John N. (Jake) Ferris
October 2022

2021 Philosophy Books of the Month

The Biblical Clock: The Untold Secrets Linking the Universe and Humanity with God's Plan

The Biblical Clock
by Daniel Friedmann
March 2021

Wilderness Cry: A Scientific and Philosophical Approach to Understanding God and the Universe

Wilderness Cry
by Dr. Hilary L Hunt M.D.
April 2021

Fear Not, Dream Big, & Execute: Tools To Spark Your Dream And Ignite Your Follow-Through

Fear Not, Dream Big, & Execute
by Jeff Meyer
May 2021

Surviving the Business of Healthcare: Knowledge is Power

Surviving the Business of Healthcare
by Barbara Galutia Regis M.S. PA-C
June 2021

Winning the War on Cancer: The Epic Journey Towards a Natural Cure

Winning the War on Cancer
by Sylvie Beljanski
July 2021

Defining Moments of a Free Man from a Black Stream

Defining Moments of a Free Man from a Black Stream
by Dr Frank L Douglas
August 2021

If Life Stinks, Get Your Head Outta Your Buts

If Life Stinks, Get Your Head Outta Your Buts
by Mark L. Wdowiak
September 2021

The Preppers Medical Handbook

The Preppers Medical Handbook
by Dr. William W Forgey M.D.
October 2021

Natural Relief for Anxiety and Stress: A Practical Guide

Natural Relief for Anxiety and Stress
by Dr. Gustavo Kinrys, MD
November 2021

Dream For Peace: An Ambassador Memoir

Dream For Peace
by Dr. Ghoulem Berrah
December 2021