Healthcare as a Service vs Healthcare as a Business?

Use this forum to discuss the June 2021 Philosophy Book of the Month Surviving the Business of Healthcare: Knowledge is Power by Barbara Galutia Regis PA-C
Belindi
Moderator
Posts: 3707
Joined: September 11th, 2016, 2:11 pm

Re: Healthcare as a Service vs Healthcare as a Business?

Post by Belindi »

mystery wrote: June 16th, 2021, 3:38 am
LuckyR wrote: June 16th, 2021, 2:27 am
mystery wrote: June 15th, 2021, 8:20 pm
LuckyR wrote: June 15th, 2021, 1:46 pm

Are you talking about the Philippines?

What about regular drug use in a regular city? Folks would never accept a "solution" that is ten times worse than the problem.
Ten times worse is relative. I know most will not accept it, I understand that.

Most big win require big risk and big change.

Many US cities if that is what you call regular, and those not like your city are called not regular.. Those ones perhaps one in 5 houses have some drug problem on average. Go sometime and make friends with the local police, they know. Even in suburbian smaller towns, many meth houses exist. Public schools are full of it. Ever visit a university party.....

If I have to choose between a middle-aged corrupt businessman and a teenager that is just starting to open their mind, I will defend the child. If I do nothing the older one wins. Not perfect solutions for not perfect world.

To be clear, I don't like it but it is what it is.

We are for sure off-topic now :) But this situation is part of the cost of health care.

Is a better solution available, that will work and is more kind? I hope.
What you are proposing might make some sense if the suppliers created the demand. If that was true, getting rid of the suppliers would decrease the demand thus there would no market for replacement suppliers. Unfortunately that is not true. As long as there is demand, applying pressure to the suppliers without addressing the demand is an endless game of whack-a-mole.
I know, that's why what I have seen done worked, removal of both. And fear for life that could break an addiction. I have seen it, it worked. The cost is much.

But how can killing criminals stop desire for illegal activities?
User avatar
mystery
Posts: 300
Joined: May 14th, 2021, 5:41 am
Favorite Philosopher: Mike Tyson
Location: earth

Re: Healthcare as a Service vs Healthcare as a Business?

Post by mystery »

in two ways.

1. the person who has the desire so high is removed.
2. others have a much stronger deterrent.

I am sure it works.

The root cause of the businessman in this case is greed. perhaps some cases that the person needs money so badly for a noble cause. I don't know of any cases like that.

The root cause of the addicts is rejection, usually in multiple areas. Looking to find comfort, unfortunately, the effects do something else.
Belindi
Moderator
Posts: 3707
Joined: September 11th, 2016, 2:11 pm

Re: Healthcare as a Service vs Healthcare as a Business?

Post by Belindi »

mystery wrote: June 16th, 2021, 6:45 am in two ways.

1. the person who has the desire so high is removed.
2. others have a much stronger deterrent.

I am sure it works.

The root cause of the businessman in this case is greed. perhaps some cases that the person needs money so badly for a noble cause. I don't know of any cases like that.

The root cause of the addicts is rejection, usually in multiple areas. Looking to find comfort, unfortunately, the effects do something else.
But your 1. and 2. are common to everyone.There is no person whose illegal, and/or immoral, and/or irrational desires do not fluctuate. There is no natural division between criminals and non-criminals.
User avatar
mystery
Posts: 300
Joined: May 14th, 2021, 5:41 am
Favorite Philosopher: Mike Tyson
Location: earth

Re: Healthcare as a Service vs Healthcare as a Business?

Post by mystery »

Belindi wrote: June 17th, 2021, 4:07 am
mystery wrote: June 16th, 2021, 6:45 am in two ways.

1. the person who has the desire so high is removed.
2. others have a much stronger deterrent.

I am sure it works.

The root cause of the businessman in this case is greed. perhaps some cases that the person needs money so badly for a noble cause. I don't know of any cases like that.

The root cause of the addicts is rejection, usually in multiple areas. Looking to find comfort, unfortunately, the effects do something else.
But your 1. and 2. are common to everyone.There is no person whose illegal, and/or immoral, and/or irrational desires do not fluctuate. There is no natural division between criminals and non-criminals.
tell me more about that. Not sure I understand.

I am sure that with the proper motivation that anyone will do anything.
Belindi
Moderator
Posts: 3707
Joined: September 11th, 2016, 2:11 pm

Re: Healthcare as a Service vs Healthcare as a Business?

Post by Belindi »

mystery wrote: June 17th, 2021, 5:03 am
Belindi wrote: June 17th, 2021, 4:07 am
mystery wrote: June 16th, 2021, 6:45 am in two ways.

1. the person who has the desire so high is removed.
2. others have a much stronger deterrent.

I am sure it works.

The root cause of the businessman in this case is greed. perhaps some cases that the person needs money so badly for a noble cause. I don't know of any cases like that.

The root cause of the addicts is rejection, usually in multiple areas. Looking to find comfort, unfortunately, the effects do something else.
But your 1. and 2. are common to everyone.There is no person whose illegal, and/or immoral, and/or irrational desires do not fluctuate. There is no natural division between criminals and non-criminals.
tell me more about that. Not sure I understand.

I am sure that with the proper motivation that anyone will do anything.
I mean that each individual's empathy strength fluctuates.

This fact makes effective legislation complicated, as to be effective legislation needs to reward all the complexity of motivating factors that increase empathy. That is to say, increase understanding between social classes by decreasing wealth differential and increasing social mobility. Increase understanding between cultural / religious communities by means of various educational enterprises.These are longer term remedies.

Immediately it is necessary to treat drug addiction by international sharing of police intelligence, together with disciplined and thoroughly trained police forces. Imprisonment should be resorted to only to protect society and prisons should be publicly owned and funded.
User avatar
mystery
Posts: 300
Joined: May 14th, 2021, 5:41 am
Favorite Philosopher: Mike Tyson
Location: earth

Re: Healthcare as a Service vs Healthcare as a Business?

Post by mystery »

Belindi wrote: June 17th, 2021, 7:45 am
mystery wrote: June 17th, 2021, 5:03 am
Belindi wrote: June 17th, 2021, 4:07 am
mystery wrote: June 16th, 2021, 6:45 am in two ways.

1. the person who has the desire so high is removed.
2. others have a much stronger deterrent.

I am sure it works.

The root cause of the businessman in this case is greed. perhaps some cases that the person needs money so badly for a noble cause. I don't know of any cases like that.

The root cause of the addicts is rejection, usually in multiple areas. Looking to find comfort, unfortunately, the effects do something else.
But your 1. and 2. are common to everyone.There is no person whose illegal, and/or immoral, and/or irrational desires do not fluctuate. There is no natural division between criminals and non-criminals.
tell me more about that. Not sure I understand.

I am sure that with the proper motivation that anyone will do anything.
I mean that each individual's empathy strength fluctuates.

This fact makes effective legislation complicated, as to be effective legislation needs to reward all the complexity of motivating factors that increase empathy. That is to say, increase understanding between social classes by decreasing wealth differential and increasing social mobility. Increase understanding between cultural / religious communities by means of various educational enterprises.These are longer term remedies.

Immediately it is necessary to treat drug addiction by international sharing of police intelligence, together with disciplined and thoroughly trained police forces. Imprisonment should be resorted to only to protect society and prisons should be publicly owned and funded.
I agree that leadership by consensus usually doesn't work.

A choice becomes should we have empathy for a person that would harm our family and give them part of our wealth for food and shelter or should we remove them. What if our family was already only with enough, would we allow our family to become sickly so that we could give to a person that has and had intentions to kill us to feed an addiction caused by a greedy businessperson?

you and I may not have such a decision, many others do.
Belindi
Moderator
Posts: 3707
Joined: September 11th, 2016, 2:11 pm

Re: Healthcare as a Service vs Healthcare as a Business?

Post by Belindi »

mystery wrote: June 18th, 2021, 2:44 am
Belindi wrote: June 17th, 2021, 7:45 am
mystery wrote: June 17th, 2021, 5:03 am
Belindi wrote: June 17th, 2021, 4:07 am

But your 1. and 2. are common to everyone.There is no person whose illegal, and/or immoral, and/or irrational desires do not fluctuate. There is no natural division between criminals and non-criminals.
tell me more about that. Not sure I understand.

I am sure that with the proper motivation that anyone will do anything.
I mean that each individual's empathy strength fluctuates.

This fact makes effective legislation complicated, as to be effective legislation needs to reward all the complexity of motivating factors that increase empathy. That is to say, increase understanding between social classes by decreasing wealth differential and increasing social mobility. Increase understanding between cultural / religious communities by means of various educational enterprises.These are longer term remedies.

Immediately it is necessary to treat drug addiction by international sharing of police intelligence, together with disciplined and thoroughly trained police forces. Imprisonment should be resorted to only to protect society and prisons should be publicly owned and funded.
I agree that leadership by consensus usually doesn't work.

A choice becomes should we have empathy for a person that would harm our family and give them part of our wealth for food and shelter or should we remove them. What if our family was already only with enough, would we allow our family to become sickly so that we could give to a person that has and had intentions to kill us to feed an addiction caused by a greedy businessperson?

you and I may not have such a decision, many others do.
To 'have empathy' does not mean to forgive or to feel loyal fellowship. Empathy is a main component of reason for without empathy you cannot predict what a man is likely to do next. You have to be able in some measure to predict human behaviour in order to diminish criminality.

BTW you cannot agree with what has not been claimed.
User avatar
mystery
Posts: 300
Joined: May 14th, 2021, 5:41 am
Favorite Philosopher: Mike Tyson
Location: earth

Re: Healthcare as a Service vs Healthcare as a Business?

Post by mystery »

Belindi wrote: June 18th, 2021, 12:28 pm
mystery wrote: June 18th, 2021, 2:44 am
Belindi wrote: June 17th, 2021, 7:45 am
mystery wrote: June 17th, 2021, 5:03 am
tell me more about that. Not sure I understand.

I am sure that with the proper motivation that anyone will do anything.
I mean that each individual's empathy strength fluctuates.

This fact makes effective legislation complicated, as to be effective legislation needs to reward all the complexity of motivating factors that increase empathy. That is to say, increase understanding between social classes by decreasing wealth differential and increasing social mobility. Increase understanding between cultural / religious communities by means of various educational enterprises.These are longer term remedies.

Immediately it is necessary to treat drug addiction by international sharing of police intelligence, together with disciplined and thoroughly trained police forces. Imprisonment should be resorted to only to protect society and prisons should be publicly owned and funded.
I agree that leadership by consensus usually doesn't work.

A choice becomes should we have empathy for a person that would harm our family and give them part of our wealth for food and shelter or should we remove them. What if our family was already only with enough, would we allow our family to become sickly so that we could give to a person that has and had intentions to kill us to feed an addiction caused by a greedy businessperson?

you and I may not have such a decision, many others do.
To 'have empathy' does not mean to forgive or to feel loyal fellowship. Empathy is a main component of reason for without empathy you cannot predict what a man is likely to do next. You have to be able in some measure to predict human behaviour in order to diminish criminality.

BTW you cannot agree with what has not been claimed.
Thats fair, sometimes I look for agreement by suggesting it. Often it works, no disrespect intended.

One of the missing things with a person that is strongly Narcissistic is a lack of empathy, do you think they do not have a reason? Many become very wealthy.

Narcissists are predictable.
Belindi
Moderator
Posts: 3707
Joined: September 11th, 2016, 2:11 pm

Re: Healthcare as a Service vs Healthcare as a Business?

Post by Belindi »

I am not a psychiatrist and don't have any clinical experience of mental disorders. However there is a difference between empathy and sympathy. I cannot understand how anyone could possibly work to become rich unless they could understand other people and predict others' behaviour to a significant extent.

To know what someone else feels(empathy)is not the same as to like feeling the same as another(sympathy). I'll take it as given that narcissists are predctable, but do they predict at all well? Since knowledge of human behaviour matters for competent predictions in any marketplace any 'narcissist' or anybody else who becomes rich not by good fortune but by their own efforts must be good at empathy.

Ideally healthcare will be run as a business by politicians and civil servants who understand social psychology or have expert advice from social psychologists i.e. empathy specialists. Without also sympathy i.e.fellow feeling and ordinary human kindness which I called sympathy a politician or businessman who has only empathy will become corrupt to some degree. With sympathy but lacking empathy a politician will not be able to take an objective view of the most effective way to spend money. A good politian needs both empathy and sympathy.

For my own part I look to the politician's background and life as lived to discover if the politician has sympathy. That is why I trust Biden not Trump. Another useful pointer to a man with sympathy is when they don't get rich from the high office of politician.
User avatar
mystery
Posts: 300
Joined: May 14th, 2021, 5:41 am
Favorite Philosopher: Mike Tyson
Location: earth

Re: Healthcare as a Service vs Healthcare as a Business?

Post by mystery »

Belindi wrote: June 19th, 2021, 3:40 am I am not a psychiatrist and don't have any clinical experience of mental disorders. However there is a difference between empathy and sympathy. I cannot understand how anyone could possibly work to become rich unless they could understand other people and predict others' behaviour to a significant extent.

To know what someone else feels(empathy)is not the same as to like feeling the same as another(sympathy). I'll take it as given that narcissists are predctable, but do they predict at all well? Since knowledge of human behaviour matters for competent predictions in any marketplace any 'narcissist' or anybody else who becomes rich not by good fortune but by their own efforts must be good at empathy.

Ideally healthcare will be run as a business by politicians and civil servants who understand social psychology or have expert advice from social psychologists i.e. empathy specialists. Without also sympathy i.e.fellow feeling and ordinary human kindness which I called sympathy a politician or businessman who has only empathy will become corrupt to some degree. With sympathy but lacking empathy a politician will not be able to take an objective view of the most effective way to spend money. A good politician needs both empathy and sympathy.

For my own part I look to the politician's background and life as lived to discover if the politician has sympathy. That is why I trust Biden not Trump. Another useful pointer to a man with sympathy is when they don't get rich from the high office of politician.
Your description of sympathy and empathy is good. I also am not in the mental health business. Usually, Narcs (Narcissists) are experts at emotional manipulation. People run on emotions, if we can get the upper hand emotionally it's easy to get most people to do anything. They know what the other person is feeling but do not care. Empathy for me means that I also care about the other person's pain, not just understand it.

One of the key things to get people to agree to give is a play on empathy. You and I might have strong empathy so that if someone properly explains how another is suffering we will feel like helping and therefore will do so. At the same time, the person or group that is interacting with us to get this decision to give is aware of what they are doing with us and our empathy. Narcs always target high empathy persons.

With health care, we have a lot going on with it that is not health care that is expensive. Insurance companies earning as much or more than medical professionals. It is not efficient. Hospital business managers earn more than surgeons, it's silly. I am aware of several middle-sized companies that closed USA operations because of the cost of health care for employees.

IMO, Inner confidence is required to avoid corruption. A purpose that does not require validation from others.

All of the leaders have had some strengths and some faults.
Obama got rich while in high office but if I point that out to most ppl they conclude I must be a racist.
Post Reply

Return to “Surviving the Business of Healthcare: Knowledge is Power by Barbara Galutia Regis PA-C”

Philosophy Books of the Month

The Biblical Clock: The Untold Secrets Linking the Universe and Humanity with God's Plan

The Biblical Clock
by Daniel Friedmann
March 2021

Wilderness Cry: A Scientific and Philosophical Approach to Understanding God and the Universe

Wilderness Cry
by Dr. Hilary L Hunt M.D.
April 2021

Fear Not, Dream Big, & Execute: Tools To Spark Your Dream And Ignite Your Follow-Through

Fear Not, Dream Big, & Execute
by Jeff Meyer
May 2021

Surviving the Business of Healthcare: Knowledge is Power

Surviving the Business of Healthcare
by Barbara Galutia Regis M.S. PA-C
June 2021

Winning the War on Cancer: The Epic Journey Towards a Natural Cure

Winning the War on Cancer
by Sylvie Beljanski
July 2021

Defining Moments of a Free Man from a Black Stream

Defining Moments of a Free Man from a Black Stream
by Dr Frank L Douglas
August 2021

If Life Stinks, Get Your Head Outta Your Buts

If Life Stinks, Get Your Head Outta Your Buts
by Mark L. Wdowiak
September 2021

The Preppers Medical Handbook

The Preppers Medical Handbook
by Dr. William W Forgey M.D.
October 2021

Natural Relief for Anxiety and Stress: A Practical Guide

Natural Relief for Anxiety and Stress
by Dr. Gustavo Kinrys, MD
November 2021

Dream For Peace: An Ambassador Memoir

Dream For Peace
by Dr. Ghoulem Berrah
December 2021