Healthcare as a Service vs Healthcare as a Business?

Use this forum to discuss the June 2021 Philosophy Book of the Month Surviving the Business of Healthcare: Knowledge is Power by Barbara Galutia Regis PA-C
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LuckyR
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Re: Healthcare as a Service vs Healthcare as a Business

Post by LuckyR »

Service or business? We already answered that. The bus system is a service. Ferraris and Toyotas are sold at a business called a dealership.

Folks like to think of competition and profit as bad things. Are losses therefore a good thing? Not really. Profits are better than losses.
"As usual... it depends."
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mystery
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Re: Healthcare as a Service vs Healthcare as a Business

Post by mystery »

rights vs privileges.

is health care a right or a privilege?

in the most simple terms, someone must fund the Dr. and someone must produce the tools and items needed to conduct health care.

it is a question of forcing or inviting others to pay for our needs or in turn paying for the needs of others either with our permission or against our will. force by a tax that is punishable for failure to pay is unfair. we take from a productive person and give to another who is not as productive. this is bad for our survival. we punish the successful and reward the not successful.

charity is another matter and desirable.

there was a company before called https://mychristiancare.org/medi-share/ that could join voluntarily to distribute the health care cost.
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Robert66
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Re: Healthcare as a Service vs Healthcare as a Business

Post by Robert66 »

Sushan wrote: June 3rd, 2021, 6:49 am I am not aware from which country you are. But I am from a country where free health is available (we do not pay any tax which is directly related to health. And also we have free education as well).

1) And I have seen how people just throw away freely given medicine. If they had to at least pay a penny they would not have done that.

2) Almost all the healthcare workers in my country are employed by the state. But later they develop various personal and political agendas and they forget about the fellow citizens out of whom they were chosen and placed in those positions. So, though all of them do not support corruption, there are a few who are at the higher levels operate as per various other agendas damaging the whole system.

3) What I see in my country is how politicians are using tax money for their own betterment and the voters are just going further down in their living standards.
I'm from Australia. Where are you from? Sounds like you have big problems with corruption. If your health care system were privatised, do you think the problems would go away?
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Robert66
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Re: Healthcare as a Service vs Healthcare as a Business

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Sushan wrote: June 3rd, 2021, 6:49 am I am not aware from which country you are. But I am from a country where free health is available (we do not pay any tax which is directly related to health. And also we have free education as well).

1) And I have seen how people just throw away freely given medicine. If they had to at least pay a penny they would not have done that.

2) Almost all the healthcare workers in my country are employed by the state. But later they develop various personal and political agendas and they forget about the fellow citizens out of whom they were chosen and placed in those positions. So, though all of them do not support corruption, there are a few who are at the higher levels operate as per various other agendas damaging the whole system.

3) What I see in my country is how politicians are using tax money for their own betterment and the voters are just going further down in their living standards.
Hi Sushan, I posted a reply a few days ago, but it somehow did not make it to this page, despite appearing in my user profile. Anyway I will try again. I am from Australia. Where are you from?
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Nursegy6
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Re: Healthcare as a Service vs Healthcare as a Business

Post by Nursegy6 »

AverageBozo wrote: June 1st, 2021, 3:44 pm For those who treat patients, healthcare is mostly a service. For those in administration, in government or in the insurance industry, healthcare is mostly a business.

I agree 100%! It is very hard as a nurse to transition in to administration. I don’t feel healthcare should be a business. I’ve seen too many instances where patients do not get the care they need due to “business decisions”.
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Robert66
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Re: Healthcare as a Service vs Healthcare as a Business

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Robert66 wrote: June 6th, 2021, 3:38 pm
Sushan wrote: June 3rd, 2021, 6:49 am I am not aware from which country you are. But I am from a country where free health is available (we do not pay any tax which is directly related to health. And also we have free education as well).

1) And I have seen how people just throw away freely given medicine. If they had to at least pay a penny they would not have done that.

2) Almost all the healthcare workers in my country are employed by the state. But later they develop various personal and political agendas and they forget about the fellow citizens out of whom they were chosen and placed in those positions. So, though all of them do not support corruption, there are a few who are at the higher levels operate as per various other agendas damaging the whole system.

3) What I see in my country is how politicians are using tax money for their own betterment and the voters are just going further down in their living standards.
Hi Sushan, I posted a reply a few days ago, but it somehow did not make it to this page, despite appearing in my user profile. Anyway I will try again. I am from Australia. Where are you from?
Now the post has reappeared. What is going on?
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Omshanti+23
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Re: Healthcare as a Service vs Healthcare as a Business?

Post by Omshanti+23 »

People In the health care system are being treated like clients instead of patients that’s why there’s no cradle to grave care. There is no trust In the healthcare system because people are not getting adequate care. This is not just physicians but the whole medical community and the healthcare system from the insurance companies to the pharmacies to the hospitals. There are multiple examples of these instances. To say our system is broken or blame one entity is shortsighted. We don’t need an overhaul. We need to start new.
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SpringFever
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Re: Healthcare as a Service vs Healthcare as a Business?

Post by SpringFever »

Growing up in a family where my parents were in the medical field, I believe it has slowly changed from a service world to a business world. In today’s medical world, doctors have time slots to see patients and they have performance reviews which diminishes why they joined the medical field in the first place. Doctors cannot use their best judgement to provide care for a patient and they need to abide by many rules and regulations put together by business folks. I’ve known a doctor who said she enjoyed taking time to talk to her patients but they put a cap on that to 15 min in the name of efficiency. Healthcare has become a business in today’s day and age but the doctors and nurses who do their best trying to manage a business and a service is the only resemblance of service left in the healthcare business.
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Sushan
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Re: Healthcare as a Service vs Healthcare as a Business

Post by Sushan »

Robert66 wrote: June 4th, 2021, 3:37 pm
Sushan wrote: June 3rd, 2021, 6:49 am I am not aware from which country you are. But I am from a country where free health is available (we do not pay any tax which is directly related to health. And also we have free education as well).

1) And I have seen how people just throw away freely given medicine. If they had to at least pay a penny they would not have done that.

2) Almost all the healthcare workers in my country are employed by the state. But later they develop various personal and political agendas and they forget about the fellow citizens out of whom they were chosen and placed in those positions. So, though all of them do not support corruption, there are a few who are at the higher levels operate as per various other agendas damaging the whole system.

3) What I see in my country is how politicians are using tax money for their own betterment and the voters are just going further down in their living standards.
I'm from Australia. Where are you from? Sounds like you have big problems with corruption. If your health care system were privatised, do you think the problems would go away?
I am from Sri Lanka. Yes, almost every system in our country is with corruption.

No, I do not think making everything privatised will give it a solution. It is better if everything can be taken to control under government and regulated strictly. But first of all we need a complete change of the minds of people. For years they are trained to think according to this corrupted system and all are used to think about their own pocket without caring for others or the country.

We have a healthcare system which is full of doctors, nurses and other staff who are produced by government universities. But many of them tend to forget are forced to forget that they are from the society and then they work to gain things only for themselves. And that is why I say first of all the whole nation need a change to their minds and opinions.
“There is only one thing a philosopher can be relied upon to do, and that is to contradict other philosophers”

– William James
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Sushan
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Re: Healthcare as a Service vs Healthcare as a Business

Post by Sushan »

LuckyR wrote: June 4th, 2021, 2:17 am Service or business? We already answered that. The bus system is a service. Ferraris and Toyotas are sold at a business called a dealership.

Folks like to think of competition and profit as bad things. Are losses therefore a good thing? Not really. Profits are better than losses.
Competition is actually a good thing. If we take the private sector of healthcare, they are in a continuous competition with the fellow healthcare providers in order to gain the maximum profit. So it drives them towards a better service and ultimately the consumers become the real winners of the competition by getting the best service. And also this competition standardize the various healthcare workers automatically, so the ones that are not up to the standards will be slowly rejected by the consumers. So, yes, profits are good, so as the competition.
“There is only one thing a philosopher can be relied upon to do, and that is to contradict other philosophers”

– William James
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Sushan
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Re: Healthcare as a Service vs Healthcare as a Business

Post by Sushan »

mystery wrote: June 4th, 2021, 2:33 am rights vs privileges.

is health care a right or a privilege?

in the most simple terms, someone must fund the Dr. and someone must produce the tools and items needed to conduct health care.

it is a question of forcing or inviting others to pay for our needs or in turn paying for the needs of others either with our permission or against our will. force by a tax that is punishable for failure to pay is unfair. we take from a productive person and give to another who is not as productive. this is bad for our survival. we punish the successful and reward the not successful.

charity is another matter and desirable.

there was a company before called https://mychristiancare.org/medi-share/ that could join voluntarily to distribute the health care cost.
Taking from the rich and distributing it among the poor has been a popular concept from the early days, and that is why we see stories like 'Robin Hood. But, as you have said, it is unfair to punish a hard earning person and reward a possibly lazy one. But at the same time the the workers has to be paid and the healthcare systems need money to run. So what can be done is make health a charity work and controlled by the government. So government can directly fund the healthcare system without directly asking rich or the poor to pay for healthcare. Government can have its own ways of earning and a share from that can be contributed to healthcare. With that I think the right to live a healthy life will be fulfilled to both rich and the poor.
“There is only one thing a philosopher can be relied upon to do, and that is to contradict other philosophers”

– William James
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Sushan
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Re: Healthcare as a Service vs Healthcare as a Business

Post by Sushan »

Nursegy6 wrote: June 6th, 2021, 3:49 pm
AverageBozo wrote: June 1st, 2021, 3:44 pm For those who treat patients, healthcare is mostly a service. For those in administration, in government or in the insurance industry, healthcare is mostly a business.

I agree 100%! It is very hard as a nurse to transition in to administration. I don’t feel healthcare should be a business. I’ve seen too many instances where patients do not get the care they need due to “business decisions”.
Could you please elaborate on these 'business decisions'. There are instances that the doctors or others who are in healthcare system have to make decisions not only according to medicine but also as per the administrative rules and regulations. Sometimes those can be seen as unfair from the side of the patients, but such rules and regulations are there to protect both the doctor and the patient because humans tend to do various mishaps when they get emotional. So to prevent such things there are standard protocols for various situations, which may seem like business minded but are not actually business related.

But, yes, I agree that there are occasion where patients are mistreated for simply not having money or power, because the healthcare systems are gone too much towards its business aspect.
“There is only one thing a philosopher can be relied upon to do, and that is to contradict other philosophers”

– William James
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Sushan
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Re: Healthcare as a Service vs Healthcare as a Business?

Post by Sushan »

Omshanti+23 wrote: June 6th, 2021, 4:35 pm People In the health care system are being treated like clients instead of patients that’s why there’s no cradle to grave care. There is no trust In the healthcare system because people are not getting adequate care. This is not just physicians but the whole medical community and the healthcare system from the insurance companies to the pharmacies to the hospitals. There are multiple examples of these instances. To say our system is broken or blame one entity is shortsighted. We don’t need an overhaul. We need to start new.
I think you are correct. People have changed too much so are the systems. It is hard to change anything and the only remaining option is to restart, which is not practically possible. With the today's competitive money-minded society, everything has got a monetary value, and healthcare is not excluded from that. Today time is money. So doctors do not have time to talk with patients or nurses do not have time to smile with patients because they are bound to see more and more patients. Otherwise their main organizations won't get the expected profits. I am not telling that all the healthcare workers are like this, but many have adopted to this system not because of anything but because they too have to live and provide for their families.
“There is only one thing a philosopher can be relied upon to do, and that is to contradict other philosophers”

– William James
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LuckyR
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Re: Healthcare as a Service vs Healthcare as a Business

Post by LuckyR »

mystery wrote: June 4th, 2021, 2:33 am rights vs privileges.

is health care a right or a privilege?

in the most simple terms, someone must fund the Dr. and someone must produce the tools and items needed to conduct health care.

it is a question of forcing or inviting others to pay for our needs or in turn paying for the needs of others either with our permission or against our will. force by a tax that is punishable for failure to pay is unfair. we take from a productive person and give to another who is not as productive. this is bad for our survival. we punish the successful and reward the not successful.

charity is another matter and desirable.

there was a company before called https://mychristiancare.org/medi-share/ that could join voluntarily to distribute the health care cost.
Sounds like you are unfamiliar with the value of insurance.

As to the punished successful, would you rather be a taxed rich person or a poor person getting assistance? Trust me, the rich are doing just fine, you don't need to shed tears on their behalf.
"As usual... it depends."
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Sushan
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Re: Healthcare as a Service vs Healthcare as a Business?

Post by Sushan »

SpringFever wrote: June 7th, 2021, 1:02 am Growing up in a family where my parents were in the medical field, I believe it has slowly changed from a service world to a business world. In today’s medical world, doctors have time slots to see patients and they have performance reviews which diminishes why they joined the medical field in the first place. Doctors cannot use their best judgement to provide care for a patient and they need to abide by many rules and regulations put together by business folks. I’ve known a doctor who said she enjoyed taking time to talk to her patients but they put a cap on that to 15 min in the name of efficiency. Healthcare has become a business in today’s day and age but the doctors and nurses who do their best trying to manage a business and a service is the only resemblance of service left in the healthcare business.
There are many who try to maintain healthcare as a service. But it is like swimming against the stream. If you try to do a different thing, there is a high chance for you to get rejected. So many do not try to take a leap of faith and jump into the void. They simply go along with the stream, which is safe though it may not agree with their conscience. Yes, it has gradually converted into a business, and at most places there are no more doctors and patients, but there are service providers and the consumers. The emotional bond between doctors and patients have already vanished, and doctors are loosing the respect from the society because the society is now looking at them not as doctors but as businessmen.
“There is only one thing a philosopher can be relied upon to do, and that is to contradict other philosophers”

– William James
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