God and Human: Who has created Whom?

Discuss philosophical questions regarding theism (and atheism), and discuss religion as it relates to philosophy. This includes any philosophical discussions that happen to be about god, gods, or a 'higher power' or the belief of them. This also generally includes philosophical topics about organized or ritualistic mysticism or about organized, common or ritualistic beliefs in the existence of supernatural phenomenon.
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gater
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Re: God and Human: Who has created Whom?

Post by gater » March 24th, 2020, 4:29 pm

The Universe is infinite time, space, and matter. The was no beginning of the Universe, it didn't evolve into what it is, it's always been here. Change is a constant because time is a constant. The matter of the Universe is constantly changing, evolving, but time and space - does not change, does not evolve.

God is a concept that early man came up with to explain his world. There is no "God" other than in the minds of men. There was no creator, and looking for one is as futile as looking for a beginning of the Universe.

creation
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Re: God and Human: Who has created Whom?

Post by creation » March 25th, 2020, 9:49 am

Greta wrote:
March 23rd, 2020, 11:52 pm
Pattern-chaser wrote:
March 23rd, 2020, 7:39 am


Farther back in our discussion, you separated my two sentences, and demanded to know what 'this' was. If you'd left them together, you wouldn't've lost the link of sense between them.
Alas, that is the product of the disastrous forum habit of breaking up chunks of text and addressing each one without complete context.

The habit not only produces logically invalid replies, but annoying to those being responded to, and thoroughly unreadable, actively harming the forum. I, and many others, will not bother wading through long context-free tit-for-tats. We want more cohesive prose and less nitpicking of stuff out of context.
And not every one is the same.

Some like to look at, learn, and understand, more, and deeper, than others do. While some just like to look for and see what they already believe is true. While others just do not care.

Every one is different.

creation
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Re: God and Human: Who has created Whom?

Post by creation » March 25th, 2020, 9:58 am

gad-fly wrote:
March 24th, 2020, 12:43 pm
Greta wrote:
March 23rd, 2020, 11:52 pm


Alas, that is the product of the disastrous forum habit of breaking up chunks of text and addressing each one without complete context.

The habit not only produces logically invalid replies, but annoying to those being responded to, and thoroughly unreadable, actively harming the forum. I, and many others, will not bother wading through long context-free tit-for-tats. We want more cohesive prose and less nitpicking of stuff out of context.
Good point, Greta. Sentence should not be broken up. Emphasized/focused point can be underlined or in Bold. Wise-guy remark and oxymoron such as 'change is constant' should be avoided.
Did I say, 'Change is constant', or 'Change is a constant', or both?

See, when just a letter is missed, a word is misinterpreted, and/or a sentence is misconstrued, then everything else can be very easily misunderstood, and taken out of context, which happens all to often and all to frequently in forums like this.
gad-fly wrote:
March 24th, 2020, 12:43 pm
Meaningless statement such as 'time is constant' should not be made.
Just because one finds some thing "meaningless" this does not mean that 'it' is actually "meaningless". It just means that to that one 'it' is "meaningless".
gad-fly wrote:
March 24th, 2020, 12:43 pm
When replying or commenting on a thread, do not depart from the title which should have a clearly defined concern. Start a new thread if necessary.
Do you always follow your own advice here?

creation
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Re: God and Human: Who has created Whom?

Post by creation » March 25th, 2020, 10:06 am

gater wrote:
March 24th, 2020, 4:29 pm
The Universe is infinite time, space, and matter. The was no beginning of the Universe, it didn't evolve into what it is, it's always been here.
Of course every thing is 'here'. This is exactly 'where' every thing evolves.

The Universe always being 'here' does not mean that 'It' is not changing and evolving.
gater wrote:
March 24th, 2020, 4:29 pm
Change is a constant because time is a constant. The matter of the Universe is constantly changing, evolving, but time and space - does not change, does not evolve.

God is a concept that early man came up with to explain his world. There is no "God" other than in the minds of men.
There are also no minds in men, nor in women, but this does not stop you saying this.
gater wrote:
March 24th, 2020, 4:29 pm
There was no creator, and looking for one is as futile as looking for a beginning of the Universe.
The only one who would be 'looking for' a creator is those who believe or know of some thing that has been created.

Besides the Universe Itself every thing else was created. So, there must be at least one creator of all, these, things.

By the way, and also, only one who believed or knows the Universe began would look for how It began.

gater
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Re: God and Human: Who has created Whom?

Post by gater » March 25th, 2020, 2:34 pm

Again, the Universe is infinite time, space, and matter. Time and space do not evolve, things made by matter can evolve.
God ONLY exists in the minds of man - this is true, there is no God. If you insist on a creator, give the credit to the Sun. Forces of the Sun caused earth to form, then the Earth, together with the Sun, created an environment that allowed life to form.
Those that believe or know the Universe had a beginning, are confused and wrong.
God is nothing more than a grownups version of Santa Claus. Adults can accept the truth, others are still waiting for the fantasy.

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Greta
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Re: God and Human: Who has created Whom?

Post by Greta » March 25th, 2020, 4:32 pm

creation wrote:
March 25th, 2020, 9:49 am
Greta wrote:
March 23rd, 2020, 11:52 pm


Alas, that is the product of the disastrous forum habit of breaking up chunks of text and addressing each one without complete context.

The habit not only produces logically invalid replies, but annoying to those being responded to, and thoroughly unreadable, actively harming the forum. I, and many others, will not bother wading through long context-free tit-for-tats. We want more cohesive prose and less nitpicking of stuff out of context.
And not every one is the same.

Some like to look at, learn, and understand, more, and deeper, than others do. While some just like to look for and see what they already believe is true. While others just do not care.

Every one is different.
You are one of the main perpetrators. That approach turns forums into an unreadable mess that drives away new visitors.

creation
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Re: God and Human: Who has created Whom?

Post by creation » March 26th, 2020, 5:05 am

Greta wrote:
March 25th, 2020, 4:32 pm
creation wrote:
March 25th, 2020, 9:49 am


And not every one is the same.

Some like to look at, learn, and understand, more, and deeper, than others do. While some just like to look for and see what they already believe is true. While others just do not care.

Every one is different.
You are one of the main perpetrators.
I KNOW who was being referred to. That is WHY I responded.
Greta wrote:
March 25th, 2020, 4:32 pm
That approach turns forums into an unreadable mess that drives away new visitors.
Ah, so it is my fault why new visitors do not remain here.

I write in very simple terms what created what, at first. But, most people, in these days, are completely incapable of accepting and understanding what I write and/or are incapable of just asking clarifying questions so that they will better understand. See, unlike most, I can back up and support absolutely everything I say and write. Most just refute what I say, to which I then add more and more explanations and evidence to prove what I wrote in very simple terms in the beginning. If what I write turns into a so called "unreadable mess" to some people, then I would suggest if you do not like reading my writings and/or are incapable of understanding my writings, and have no real interest in understanding them, then just do not read any thing I write anymore. Simple really.

I will accept that it is all my fault that new visitors do no remain here if that is what is wanted. I do not really care. By the way, why do I drive away only the new visitors, and not the old visitors?

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Greta
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Re: God and Human: Who has created Whom?

Post by Greta » March 26th, 2020, 5:14 am

It's not all about you.

creation
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Re: God and Human: Who has created Whom?

Post by creation » March 26th, 2020, 5:17 am

gater wrote:
March 25th, 2020, 2:34 pm
Again, the Universe is infinite time, space, and matter.
Yes, once again you have re-repeated the exact same things. Unfortunately though, you have already proven that you are completely incapable of backing up and supporting your own already held assumptions and beliefs.
gater wrote:
March 25th, 2020, 2:34 pm
Time and space do not evolve, things made by matter can evolve.
It is good to see you change your views to what is more correct. If you keep this up soon you will see what thee actual Truth of things IS.
gater wrote:
March 25th, 2020, 2:34 pm
God ONLY exists in the minds of man - this is true, there is no God.
This is true in your own thinking only. This is not true in relation to what is actually True. There are NO "minds" in 'man', nor in 'woman'.

If you want to look at and see the actual Truth of things, then you have to start by speaking thee actual Truth first.
gater wrote:
March 25th, 2020, 2:34 pm
If you insist on a creator, give the credit to the Sun.
So, according to you the sun is the creator, although the sun is only a few billion years old. I am not sure how you are going to explain how the sun creator absolutely every thing that came before it. Are you even able to start to explain this?
gater wrote:
March 25th, 2020, 2:34 pm
Forces of the Sun caused earth to form, then the Earth, together with the Sun, created an environment that allowed life to form.
Wow that was very smart and clever of you.

By the way, was it just to so called "forces" of the sun the only thing that caused earth to form?

And, what are these so called "forces" exactly?
gater wrote:
March 25th, 2020, 2:34 pm
Those that believe or know the Universe had a beginning, are confused and wrong.
You may well be 100% right and correct. But, without being able to provide any actual evidence nor proof, then those who assume or believe otherwise will not accept, nor even listen, to a word you say.
gater wrote:
March 25th, 2020, 2:34 pm
God is nothing more than a grownups version of Santa Claus.
Or, the word 'God' and the concepts of that word might just help in explaining some things, which human beings, in this day and age, are still absolutely confused about. We will just have to wait and see.
gater wrote:
March 25th, 2020, 2:34 pm
Adults can accept the truth, others are still waiting for the fantasy.
Do you KNOW what thee one and only actual and absolute Truth IS?

creation
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Re: God and Human: Who has created Whom?

Post by creation » March 26th, 2020, 5:22 am

Greta wrote:
March 26th, 2020, 5:14 am
It's not all about you.
I never even thought it was, let alone wrote anything that would even imply it was, nor did I write anything that would even lead anyone to think that I was thinking this.

But, if you want to have a Truly deep and meaningful discussion about what you wrote here, then just let me know. There are a few things that would really need to be clarified first. Like, for example, what does the 'it' word refer to exactly, and who and/or what is the 'you' exactly that is being mentioned here.

gater
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Re: God and Human: Who has created Whom?

Post by gater » March 26th, 2020, 6:44 pm

creation wrote:
March 26th, 2020, 5:17 am
gater wrote:
March 25th, 2020, 2:34 pm
Again, the Universe is infinite time, space, and matter.
Yes, once again you have re-repeated the exact same things. Unfortunately though, you have already proven that you are completely incapable of backing up and supporting your own already held assumptions and beliefs.
gater wrote:
March 25th, 2020, 2:34 pm
Time and space do not evolve, things made by matter can evolve.
It is good to see you change your views to what is more correct. If you keep this up soon you will see what thee actual Truth of things IS.
gater wrote:
March 25th, 2020, 2:34 pm
God ONLY exists in the minds of man - this is true, there is no God.
This is true in your own thinking only. This is not true in relation to what is actually True. There are NO "minds" in 'man', nor in 'woman'.

If you want to look at and see the actual Truth of things, then you have to start by speaking thee actual Truth first.
gater wrote:
March 25th, 2020, 2:34 pm
If you insist on a creator, give the credit to the Sun.
So, according to you the sun is the creator, although the sun is only a few billion years old. I am not sure how you are going to explain how the sun creator absolutely every thing that came before it. Are you even able to start to explain this?
gater wrote:
March 25th, 2020, 2:34 pm
Forces of the Sun caused earth to form, then the Earth, together with the Sun, created an environment that allowed life to form.
Wow that was very smart and clever of you.

By the way, was it just to so called "forces" of the sun the only thing that caused earth to form?

And, what are these so called "forces" exactly?
gater wrote:
March 25th, 2020, 2:34 pm
Those that believe or know the Universe had a beginning, are confused and wrong.
You may well be 100% right and correct. But, without being able to provide any actual evidence nor proof, then those who assume or believe otherwise will not accept, nor even listen, to a word you say.
gater wrote:
March 25th, 2020, 2:34 pm
God is nothing more than a grownups version of Santa Claus.
Or, the word 'God' and the concepts of that word might just help in explaining some things, which human beings, in this day and age, are still absolutely confused about. We will just have to wait and see.
gater wrote:
March 25th, 2020, 2:34 pm
Adults can accept the truth, others are still waiting for the fantasy.
Do you KNOW what thee one and only actual and absolute Truth IS?
Creation - You were taught about God and the creation, so was I. I was raised to believe, was baptized, went to a Christian College. I love Christians, the best people that i've known in life have all been Christian.
However, I discovered that there is no God, and that Evolution is true.
God only exists in the minds of men - true statement. Why do you say men dont have minds?
The Suns gravity caught a huge mass of burning magma from a piece of exploded star, and it became locked into the Suns orbit. The Suns and the Earths gravity together formed a spherical planet.
I can offer logical proof for knowing that time and space are infinite, but i doubt you would accept it.
We dont have to wait for answers, it's all very clear. Do I know what the one and only actual Truth is? - On what topic? I know the truth about God and the Universe.

creation
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Re: God and Human: Who has created Whom?

Post by creation » March 26th, 2020, 8:46 pm

gater wrote:
March 26th, 2020, 6:44 pm
creation wrote:
March 26th, 2020, 5:17 am


Yes, once again you have re-repeated the exact same things. Unfortunately though, you have already proven that you are completely incapable of backing up and supporting your own already held assumptions and beliefs.



It is good to see you change your views to what is more correct. If you keep this up soon you will see what thee actual Truth of things IS.



This is true in your own thinking only. This is not true in relation to what is actually True. There are NO "minds" in 'man', nor in 'woman'.

If you want to look at and see the actual Truth of things, then you have to start by speaking thee actual Truth first.



So, according to you the sun is the creator, although the sun is only a few billion years old. I am not sure how you are going to explain how the sun creator absolutely every thing that came before it. Are you even able to start to explain this?



Wow that was very smart and clever of you.

By the way, was it just to so called "forces" of the sun the only thing that caused earth to form?

And, what are these so called "forces" exactly?



You may well be 100% right and correct. But, without being able to provide any actual evidence nor proof, then those who assume or believe otherwise will not accept, nor even listen, to a word you say.



Or, the word 'God' and the concepts of that word might just help in explaining some things, which human beings, in this day and age, are still absolutely confused about. We will just have to wait and see.



Do you KNOW what thee one and only actual and absolute Truth IS?
Creation - You were taught about God and the creation, so was I. I was raised to believe, was baptized, went to a Christian College. I love Christians, the best people that i've known in life have all been Christian.
'you', human beings, are so easy to manipulate and fool. I can do this and have done this with just the use of one word.
arjand wrote:
March 26th, 2020, 5:50 am
However, I discovered that there is no God, and that Evolution is true.
Unlike you i have NEVER believed there was a God, and have NEVER thought that evolution was not true.

Why did you believe such ridiculous things?
arjand wrote:
March 26th, 2020, 5:50 am
God only exists in the minds of men - true statement.
lol

For that statement to be true, you would have to be able to explain, accurately and correctly, what these 'minds' things are. So, what is these 'minds', which you speak of here?
arjand wrote:
March 26th, 2020, 5:50 am
Why do you say men dont have minds?
Because there is only One Mind. There is not lots of minds.

Why do you continue to refer to human beings as "men", or why do you only refer to part of the population?
arjand wrote:
March 26th, 2020, 5:50 am
The Suns gravity caught a huge mass of burning magma from a piece of exploded star, and it became locked into the Suns orbit. The Suns and the Earths gravity together formed a spherical planet.
Even if this was true you have completely missed my point.

How did the sun, which is only relatively nothing in age, create what came before it?
arjand wrote:
March 26th, 2020, 5:50 am
I can offer logical proof for knowing that time and space are infinite, but i doubt you would accept it.
Either you are completely and utterly stupid, blind, or just do not read what I write. I have been writing that the Universe is infinite, spatially, and eternal, temporally. But, I think I have manipulated you to see things, which really are not here, and I have done this with just the use of one word.

Do you think I disagree that the Universe is eternal and infinite?

See, I am not here in this forum to prove absolutely any thing. I am here to suggest; Do not assume nor believe any thing before clarification is gained.

You appear to be seeing and believing things that are not even true at all, which is what I have wanted you to do. But I only wanted you, and others to do this, to show the readers of how quick, simple, and easy it is for people to assume and believe things to be true, which are absolutely and obviously not true at all. And, that the evidence that this can be done, has been done, and is being done all the time can be clearly seen in our writings here.

When the actual words I have written are looked at from a Truly OPEN perspective, then how and why you are thinking the way you are now can be clearly seen, evidenced, and proven.
arjand wrote:
March 26th, 2020, 5:50 am
We dont have to wait for answers, it's all very clear.
So, why can you not explain those so called "clear answers" and have them understood?

What is the reason they are 'clear' to you, but not to others?

And, could you be wrong?
arjand wrote:
March 26th, 2020, 5:50 am
Do I know what the one and only actual Truth is? - On what topic?
You did write: God is nothing more than a grownups version of Santa Claus. Adults can accept the truth, others are still waiting for the fantasy.

You wrote that adults can accept the 'truth'. So, what 'truth' is that exactly?

If it is that, "God is nothing more than a grownups version of santa claus", then what does "nothing more than a grownups version of santa claus" actually mean?
arjand wrote:
March 26th, 2020, 5:50 am
I know the truth about God and the Universe.
Do you?

Who and/or what is God?

You also say that 'time' is affected by gravity correct?

If yes, then how.

gater
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Re: God and Human: Who has created Whom?

Post by gater » March 26th, 2020, 10:36 pm

Creation - if you have something to say - say it. I'm done with your silly games.

creation
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Re: God and Human: Who has created Whom?

Post by creation » March 26th, 2020, 10:49 pm

gater wrote:
March 26th, 2020, 10:36 pm
Creation - if you have something to say - say it. I'm done with your silly games.
I have been saying and writing 'it', exactly how I have wanted to say 'it'.

You misinterpreting me so much and you showing that you are completely incapable of clarifying your own views is what I have wanted to point out.

By the way, human beings, through language, created the word 'God'.

And, the word 'God', in the physical sense, just refers to the physical Universe, Itself, which is just what creates every thing, including humans. Simple really.

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Re: God and Human: Who has created Whom?

Post by Belindi » March 27th, 2020, 5:18 am

creation wrote:
March 26th, 2020, 10:49 pm
gater wrote:
March 26th, 2020, 10:36 pm
Creation - if you have something to say - say it. I'm done with your silly games.
I have been saying and writing 'it', exactly how I have wanted to say 'it'.

You misinterpreting me so much and you showing that you are completely incapable of clarifying your own views is what I have wanted to point out.

By the way, human beings, through language, created the word 'God'.

And, the word 'God', in the physical sense, just refers to the physical Universe, Itself, which is just what creates every thing, including humans. Simple really.
God is the name of the deity who created and maintains the universe and all in it; and God also transcends the universe and all in it.

Actually, your claim is pantheist, not Christian.

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