Is religion good even if it's false?

Discuss philosophical questions regarding theism (and atheism), and discuss religion as it relates to philosophy. This includes any philosophical discussions that happen to be about god, gods, or a 'higher power' or the belief of them. This also generally includes philosophical topics about organized or ritualistic mysticism or about organized, common or ritualistic beliefs in the existence of supernatural phenomenon.
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Sculptor1
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Re: Is religion good even if it's false?

Post by Sculptor1 »

Steve3007 wrote: October 27th, 2021, 6:28 am
Sculptor1 wrote:And they are brought together for NO OTHER REASON but religion
I'd say they're brought together by the strong human desire to belong to something
That is the essence of religion.
- to be part of a strongly united tribe - of which the religion, in that particular case, is an expression. When people went to join what they thought was going to be an Islamic State, stretching across Syria and Iraq and ignoring such alien impositions as the Sykes–Picot line, they went to belong.
And this tendancy is not good. The same tendancy drew the sykes/pichot lines in the first place.
Last edited by Sculptor1 on October 27th, 2021, 6:52 am, edited 1 time in total.
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Greatest I am
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Re: Is religion good even if it's false?

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philoreaderguy wrote: March 17th, 2007, 11:29 am I recently was told by someone that religion is a good thing even if it is false. He said that it's good because it brings people together and teaches morality. Is this true? Is religion good for people even if it isn't false?
Do you agree that the God religions teaches morality?

They begin by asking people to believe and venerate that human sacrifice of a scapegoat human in ones steed is a good form justice.

IOWs, Christians go directly against what Jesus taught.

Ezekiel 18:20 The soul that sinneth, it shall die. The son shall not bear the iniquity of the father, neither shall the father bear the iniquity of the son: the righteousness of the righteous shall be upon him, and the wickedness of the wicked shall be upon him.

Deuteronomy 24:16 (ESV) "Fathers shall not be put to death because of their children, nor shall children be put to death because of their fathers. Each one shall be put to death for his own sin.

That is a part of why the only good Christian is a Gnostic Christian.

We, as Jesus taught, carry our cross. We will not sin by asking for or accepting our harm be put to another.

We pay our way and do not sin by asking for or accept a messiah.

Regards
DL
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LuckyR
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Re: Is religion good even if it's false?

Post by LuckyR »

Greatest I am wrote: November 10th, 2021, 4:07 pm
philoreaderguy wrote: March 17th, 2007, 11:29 am I recently was told by someone that religion is a good thing even if it is false. He said that it's good because it brings people together and teaches morality. Is this true? Is religion good for people even if it isn't false?
Do you agree that the God religions teaches morality?

They begin by asking people to believe and venerate that human sacrifice of a scapegoat human in ones steed is a good form justice.

IOWs, Christians go directly against what Jesus taught.

Ezekiel 18:20 The soul that sinneth, it shall die. The son shall not bear the iniquity of the father, neither shall the father bear the iniquity of the son: the righteousness of the righteous shall be upon him, and the wickedness of the wicked shall be upon him.

Deuteronomy 24:16 (ESV) "Fathers shall not be put to death because of their children, nor shall children be put to death because of their fathers. Each one shall be put to death for his own sin.

That is a part of why the only good Christian is a Gnostic Christian.

We, as Jesus taught, carry our cross. We will not sin by asking for or accepting our harm be put to another.

We pay our way and do not sin by asking for or accept a messiah.

Regards
DL
Everyone subscribes to a moral code, even god religions.

Sounds like you don't agree with the sacrificial scapegoat example.

But I didn't get whether you believe religion is good even if it's false (which you provided an example of falseness).
"As usual... it depends."
EricPH
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Re: Is religion good even if it's false?

Post by EricPH »

Greatest I am wrote: November 10th, 2021, 4:07 pm Do you agree that the God religions teaches morality?
The greatest commandment is to love God and to love all our neighbours as we love ourselves. We can do nothing greater.
They begin by asking people to believe and venerate that human sacrifice of a scapegoat human in ones steed is a good form justice.
We are commanded to love and pray for our enemies. Jesus would be a hypocrite if he did not practice what he preached. On the cross he prayed, forgive them Father for they know not what they do. If the prayer for forgiveness included those responsible for his death, then he could not forgive in any greater way. When we pray the Lord's prayer we tell God to forgive us in exactly the same way that we forgive our enemies.
IOWs, Christians go directly against what Jesus taught.
Agreed, we do go against the teachings of Jesus.
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Greatest I am
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Re: Is religion good even if it's false?

Post by Greatest I am »

LuckyR wrote: November 11th, 2021, 2:41 am
Greatest I am wrote: November 10th, 2021, 4:07 pm
philoreaderguy wrote: March 17th, 2007, 11:29 am I recently was told by someone that religion is a good thing even if it is false. He said that it's good because it brings people together and teaches morality. Is this true? Is religion good for people even if it isn't false?
Do you agree that the God religions teaches morality?

They begin by asking people to believe and venerate that human sacrifice of a scapegoat human in ones steed is a good form justice.

IOWs, Christians go directly against what Jesus taught.

Ezekiel 18:20 The soul that sinneth, it shall die. The son shall not bear the iniquity of the father, neither shall the father bear the iniquity of the son: the righteousness of the righteous shall be upon him, and the wickedness of the wicked shall be upon him.

Deuteronomy 24:16 (ESV) "Fathers shall not be put to death because of their children, nor shall children be put to death because of their fathers. Each one shall be put to death for his own sin.

That is a part of why the only good Christian is a Gnostic Christian.

We, as Jesus taught, carry our cross. We will not sin by asking for or accepting our harm be put to another.

We pay our way and do not sin by asking for or accept a messiah.

Regards
DL
Everyone subscribes to a moral code, even god religions.

Sounds like you don't agree with the sacrificial scapegoat example.

But I didn't get whether you believe religion is good even if it's false (which you provided an example of falseness).
I am a religionist, a Gnostic Christian, and think it good for my thinking.

All a religion is is a tribe, and given that humans are tribal by nature, tribes and religions are a human necessity.

Christianity, and I showed why, have taken an immoral ideology to heart.

You did not agree and if you do not, you have the same vile morals that Christianity has embraced.

Regards
DL
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Greatest I am
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Re: Is religion good even if it's false?

Post by Greatest I am »

EricPH wrote: November 11th, 2021, 10:34 am
Greatest I am wrote: November 10th, 2021, 4:07 pm Do you agree that the God religions teaches morality?
The greatest commandment is to love God and to love all our neighbours as we love ourselves. We can do nothing greater.
They begin by asking people to believe and venerate that human sacrifice of a scapegoat human in ones steed is a good form justice.
We are commanded to love and pray for our enemies. Jesus would be a hypocrite if he did not practice what he preached. On the cross he prayed, forgive them Father for they know not what they do. If the prayer for forgiveness included those responsible for his death, then he could not forgive in any greater way. When we pray the Lord's prayer we tell God to forgive us in exactly the same way that we forgive our enemies.
IOWs, Christians go directly against what Jesus taught.
Agreed, we do go against the teachings of Jesus.
It is hard to love ones neighbor and god when they promote homophobia and misogyny.

Love cannot be commanded, especially towards a satanic god.

Regards
DL
EricPH
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Re: Is religion good even if it's false?

Post by EricPH »

Greatest I am wrote: November 23rd, 2021, 10:54 am Love cannot be commanded, especially towards a satanic god.
Why would you say God is satanic?
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Greatest I am
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Re: Is religion good even if it's false?

Post by Greatest I am »

EricPH wrote: November 23rd, 2021, 7:19 pm
Greatest I am wrote: November 23rd, 2021, 10:54 am Love cannot be commanded, especially towards a satanic god.
Why would you say God is satanic?
Why would anyone say otherwise, after a careful evaluation?

Let me give you why I think as I do.

They do not even include my hate of homophobia and misogyny.

I look forward to your reply.

Please google -- God on Trial verdict vimo. It is about 10 min.
EricPH
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Re: Is religion good even if it's false?

Post by EricPH »

Greatest I am wrote: November 24th, 2021, 4:24 pm God on Trial verdict
If there is no God, there can never be true justice here on Earth.

If Bob murders John, he can be tried and sentenced to death. That leaves two dead people. True justice would mean that both Bob and John keep their lives. The same applies to the millions who died in the Holocaust. We kill each other and wonder why the world is not a nice place to live.

God has the power to give people a greater good life after death.

God sent you, me and everyone else to be a part of the solution. If we are not part of the solution then we add to the problems of injustice. A holocaust happens pretty much every year and it goes unnoticed. Millions of children die each year as a result of grinding poverty, starvation and preventable disease. Mankind's response is to spend trillions on warfare instead of food.
God on Trial verdict
We don't want God in our lives, so why should God do anything for us?
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Steve3007
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Re: Is religion good even if it's false?

Post by Steve3007 »

EricPH wrote:If Bob murders John, he can be tried and sentenced to death. That leaves two dead people. True justice would mean that both Bob and John keep their lives. The same applies to the millions who died in the Holocaust.
That's not justice. That's time travel. Justice is a concept that humans invented as a result of being a social species who thrive by cooperating in groups. It's main purpose is to keep that cooperation in those social groups working by encouraging beneficial behaviour. If we had time travel we wouldn't need it. Life would be like a video game. Every time it said "game over" we'd be able to just keep rewinding until we got it right.
Even men with steel hearts love to see a dog on the pitch.
EricPH
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Re: Is religion good even if it's false?

Post by EricPH »

Steve3007 wrote: November 25th, 2021, 7:52 am
EricPH wrote:If Bob murders John, he can be tried and sentenced to death. That leaves two dead people. True justice would mean that both Bob and John keep their lives. The same applies to the millions who died in the Holocaust.
That's not justice.
Agreed
Steve3007 wrote: November 25th, 2021, 7:52 am That's time travel
As time travel does not exist, then we cannot have true justice here on Earth. True justice would mean that no one is murdered; no one should be the victim of any other crime.
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Steve3007
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Re: Is religion good even if it's false?

Post by Steve3007 »

EricPH wrote:True justice would mean that no one is murdered; no one should be the victim of any other crime.
As I said, I disagree that what you describe above is true justice. I think true justice is a concept that humans invented as a result of being a social species who thrive by cooperating in groups, its main purpose being to keep that cooperation in those social groups working by encouraging beneficial behaviour. I don't think there's any justice other than true justice. False justice would be simply not justice.
Even men with steel hearts love to see a dog on the pitch.
EricPH
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Re: Is religion good even if it's false?

Post by EricPH »

Greatest I am wrote: November 24th, 2021, 4:24 pm God on Trial verdict
If you are concerned about the Holocaust, it should be Mankind on trial. It seems that throughout history we seem to have abandoned God, so why should God do anything for us?

Life is temporary; whether we die from old age or murder. If the Jews truly had faith in God, they would believe in a greater good life after death.
Belindi
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Re: Is religion good even if it's false?

Post by Belindi »

EricPH wrote: November 26th, 2021, 12:41 pm
Greatest I am wrote: November 24th, 2021, 4:24 pm God on Trial verdict
If you are concerned about the Holocaust, it should be Mankind on trial. It seems that throughout history we seem to have abandoned God, so why should God do anything for us?

Life is temporary; whether we die from old age or murder. If the Jews truly had faith in God, they would believe in a greater good life after death.
it should be Mankind on trial
Our civilised consciences do put mankind on trial. If you look through past Philosophy Club discussions you find much on that very theme. Christianity's answer to human guilt is that Christ came to save us from it.
EricPH
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Re: Is religion good even if it's false?

Post by EricPH »

Belindi wrote: November 27th, 2021, 8:00 am Our civilised consciences do put mankind on trial. If you look through past Philosophy Club discussions you find much on that very theme.
But we still like to blame God for not intervening in the Holocaust. The trial found God guilty.
Christianity's answer to human guilt is that Christ came to save us from it.
I feel Christ came to encourage us to be kinder to each other. If we can be forgiven; then we should also learn to be merciful and forgiving to others.
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