If there is a God, why is there evil?

[Sculptor1]

Evolution has no interest in god, Adam, or Christians. It happens with or without them.

Evolution could only happen if it was guided by God.

That's why "he" is doing such a bad job.

[EricPH]

Evolution has no interest in god, Adam, or Christians. It happens with or without them.

Evolution could only happen if it was guided by God.

Interesting opinion, care to share why you believe it?

The first reason. Nilsson and Pelger suggested the eye LENS could evolve through 1800 gradual steps over about half a million years. They included seven clear goals for this to happen. But evolution does not work towards any goal; so how does mutation know when to change direction and work towards a different goal seven times?

If natural selection needed 1800 increments, it means each improvement gives less than a 0.01% advantage. My optician cannot detect a 0.01% variation in my eyes, nor could natural selection detect an advantage with such a microscopic change in vision. This can only happen if it is passed onto the next generation of a two hundred plus population. If one fish was the stronger and faster swimmer; this would probably be passed onto the next generation rather that the 0.01% increase in the eye lens.

Nilsson and Pelger conveniently overlooked the fact that if the shape of the eye lens had to evolve 1800 times, then the optical nerves, the brain and the limbs would also have to evolve and improve 1800 times in order for any benefit to take place. The devil is always in the detail.

For me the skeletal system poses the greatest challenge for life to evolve through blind mutation and natural selection. This might be best for another thread.

[Belindi]

Evolution has no interest in god, Adam, or Christians. It happens with or without them.

Evolution could only happen if it was guided by God.

There are several ways to belief and trust in God. I read all your posts, and I have understood from them how God may be understood from personal experiences. Sorry I can't quote you, and the above is my general impression.

However if you persist in the opinion that evolution must be guided by God your faith may be in crisis, and that is unnecessary. If God and Nature are the same you are not a Christian but a pantheist.

Evolution happens by natural selection(not artificial selection as in cattle breeding).

Nature happens, and is not only beautiful and amazing, but also cruel and destructive. Animals' bony skeletons for instance, beautiful as they are, are prone to diseases and accidents. One of these skeletal accidents is called rickets which afflicts children who are deprived of sunshine and good food due to poverty. There is not a lot of point in worshipping a God who causes rickets.

[LuckyR]

Evolution has no interest in god, Adam, or Christians. It happens with or without them.

Evolution could only happen if it was guided by God.

Interesting opinion, care to share why you believe it?

The first reason. Nilsson and Pelger suggested the eye LENS could evolve through 1800 gradual steps over about half a million years. They included seven clear goals for this to happen. But evolution does not work towards any goal; so how does mutation know when to change direction and work towards a different goal seven times?

If natural selection needed 1800 increments, it means each improvement gives less than a 0.01% advantage. My optician cannot detect a 0.01% variation in my eyes, nor could natural selection detect an advantage with such a microscopic change in vision. This can only happen if it is passed onto the next generation of a two hundred plus population. If one fish was the stronger and faster swimmer; this would probably be passed onto the next generation rather that the 0.01% increase in the eye lens.

Nilsson and Pelger conveniently overlooked the fact that if the shape of the eye lens had to evolve 1800 times, then the optical nerves, the brain and the limbs would also have to evolve and improve 1800 times in order for any benefit to take place. The devil is always in the detail.

For me the skeletal system poses the greatest challenge for life to evolve through blind mutation and natural selection. This might be best for another thread.

So before 1994 you believed in evolution but then changed your mind based on a single article in an obscure journal?

[Belindi]

EricPH wrote:

The first reason. Nilsson and Pelger suggested the eye LENS could evolve through 1800 gradual steps over about half a million years. They included seven clear goals for this to happen. But evolution does not work towards any goal; so how does mutation know when to change direction and work towards a different goal seven times?

Mutations cause a lot of wastage. In nature mutated individuals perish long before they can produce offspring including before they are even born.

Unsuccessful mutations and dangerous environments cause successful species.

[Pattern-chaser]

Nilsson and Pelger suggested the eye LENS could evolve through 1800 gradual steps over about half a million years. They included seven clear goals for this to happen. But evolution does not work towards any goal; so how does mutation know when to change direction and work towards a different goal seven times?

The point about evolution is that it is a wholly-mindless process that works, or seems to work, as described by Darwin and Dawkins, without intention, or knowledge of anything at all.

[EricPH]

I read all your posts,

I hope they do not cause you too much concern!

I have understood from them how God may be understood from personal experiences.

A number of death or life events have certainly influenced my beliefs

However if you persist in the opinion that evolution must be guided by God your faith may be in crisis,

Or to put it another way, if there was no god, there would be no life and there would be nothing to evolve. The theory of evolution does not cause me any crises of faith; on the contrary it reinforces my belief in God the creator.

Evolution happens by natural selection(not artificial selection as in cattle breeding).

Mankind has learned how to use natural selection to their advantage when it comes to breeding cattle. I have no problem at all that natural selection and evolution happen. The problem I have is when you look at life today; then extrapolate back a few billion years to single cell life. I can't see how unguided mutation and selection could provide the answers to how life progressed from single cell.

In whatever form evolution happens, I sincerely believe it could not happen without God. Having said that, evolution is an interesting subject, but evolution does not add any purpose to my life.

There is not a lot of point in worshipping a God who causes rickets.

Any disease that leads to death shows that life is not perfect. Like you; I really don't like to see people suffer. I witnessed my mum suffer from MS for about thirty years, I saw her paralysed from the neck down for years. If there is no God and no greater good life after death; that would be tragic. Somehow; and despite all the bad stuff we experience in life; we can still find ways to have a positive belief. There is still love, kindness and hope in this world.

[Consul]

If there is a God, why is there evil?

Maybe because God is evil.

[Consul]

Evolution could only happen if it was guided by God.

That's why "he" is doing such a bad job.

"I cannot persuade myself that a beneficient and omnipotent God would have designedly created the Ichneumonidae with the express intention of their feeding within the living bodies of caterpillars." – Charles Darwin

[EricPH]

If there is a God, why is there evil?

Maybe because God is evil.

We struggle to understand each other's true motives. This forum is proof of that.

We cannot know what God knows, we cannot see what God sees. How can anyone make a true judgement about God who has the knowledge and power to create the universe and life.

[Belindi]

If there is a God, why is there evil?

Maybe because God is evil.

We struggle to understand each other's true motives. This forum is proof of that.

We cannot know what God knows, we cannot see what God sees. How can anyone make a true judgement about God who has the knowledge and power to create the universe and life.

The creator of the universe is nature. God is an idea that some humans have and that some humans believe in.

[Sculptor1]

Evolution could only happen if it was guided by God.

That's why "he" is doing such a bad job.

"I cannot persuade myself that a beneficient and omnipotent God would have designedly created the ***wiki/Ichneumonidae]Ichneumonidae[/url] with the express intention of their feeding within the living bodies of caterpillars." – Charles Darwin

Me neither.
There are many such horrors in the world; teratoma is my most quoted example.
Of cases of toxicara canis where the lavae have set up home in the eye of a child,

Type this into Youtube "Surviving Severe Burns (Doctors Say He’s a Miracle)"
At two years old Zaid survived burns so severe that doctors say it is a miracle he’s still alive. Others now tease him for "looking like a zombie". Zaid wants the world to know that he’s just a nice guy who enjoys making new friends.
God works in ways so mysterious it is as if there is no god at all!

[Sculptor1]

If there is a God, why is there evil?

Maybe because God is evil.

We struggle to understand each other's true motives. This forum is proof of that.

We cannot know what God knows, we cannot see what God sees. How can anyone make a true judgement about God who has the knowledge and power to create the universe and life.

The creator of the universe is nature. God is an idea that some humans have and that some humans believe in.

The creator of the universe is nature; is a tautology.

[EricPH]

The creator of the universe is nature.

Hydrogen and helium make up about 98% of the elements in the universe. Did nature make them? Or did hydrogen and helium always exist, they did not come from anything else and they had no beginning.

Or could hydrogen and helium just pop into existence; they did not come from anything?

Hydrogen and helium could not do much on their own; so other elements and other forces would either need to have no beginning, or just pop into existence.

Once all the ingredients for the Big Bang were in place, then BB could kick off. Somehow the stars and planets evolved, and life came from no life.

The creator of the universe is nature. God is an idea that some humans have and that some humans believe in.

But at what point did nature take on the role of creator? Was it from the start? Bringing all the elements into existence; or was it after life came into existence?

The creator of the universe is nature. This is an idea that some humans believe in.

[Pattern-chaser]

Hydrogen and helium make up about 98% of the elements in the universe. Did nature make them? Or did hydrogen and helium always exist, they did not come from anything else and they had no beginning.

Or could hydrogen and helium just pop into existence; they did not come from anything?

Our current theories suggest that hydrogen and helium were created by the Big Bang, from a maelstrom of matter and energy, LOTS of energy; it was, apparently, Very Hot at the time. These elements, and the heavier ones that followed, were not created from nothing, according to our theories.