Taoism- Actionless action
- Newme
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Re: Taoism- Actionless action
- Misty
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Re: Taoism- Actionless action
Newme wrote:I suppose you could write a book in response to how is nature work by trial and error. But essentially, how nature evolves is breaking out of habits - sometimes it works, sometimes it doesn't. Ie: Some evolve and some are still as ancient ancestors were. Or a more personally, sometimes a person's body systerms (helpful bacteria) win over harmful bacteria - and sometimes not.
I agree with the above statements. I thought your previous post meant the nature of the universe.
The eyes can only see what the mind has, is, or will be prepared to comprehend.
I am Lion, hear me ROAR! Meow.
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Re: Taoism- Actionless action
Do keep in mind Daoism was a mystic philosophy. I assume I got it when I was meditating a bit.
I was acting but not acting. As you can see, there is not a way to describe it. I have noticed western and English speakers live in societies and cultures are not investigated much or in depth.
-- Updated January 18th, 2016, 6:49 pm to add the following --
subjective expereinces are not investigated.
apoligies.
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Re: Taoism- Actionless action
Analytical humans, philosophers in particular, want to understand and analyze these sayings for some pedagogical truth, but perhaps the Dao Te Ching, the Buddha and other sages are trying to tell us that true understanding is in just "being" rather than thinking. Cosciousness is both a blessing and a curse in this regard. Perhaps right "action" will manifest itself through you if you are still and open to that inner knowledge or being which is egoless. If you are acting through your own ego perhaps you will not be able to hear the tao speaking to you. Thus actionless action would be any action without ego, couldn't it be just as simple as that?
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Re: Taoism- Actionless action
Like I said these are ideas that are spiritual and mystical in intent. Best start practicing mystical and spiritual stuff then.
- Ormond
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Re: Taoism- Actionless action
Like water.Spiral Out wrote:Yield and overcome.
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Re: Taoism- Actionless action
Is 'like water'. i.e. the power of yin, likely to overcome aggressive forces such as IS , or Hitler's Nazis?Ormond wrote:Like water.Spiral Out wrote:Yield and overcome.
How can yielding like water help a refugee fleeing for her life? Or a daughter threatened with forced marriage?
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Re: Taoism- Actionless action
Water yields and yet is capable of great movement and strength. Water acts according to it's deep nature so to speak, with no malice or axe to grind. It acts according to the laws of physics without regard to man made concepts of justice or cruelty. It can move mountains, destroy land and crops, and yet it can sooth a child's fever and bring a thirsty man back from the brink of death. It does all of these things without regard for who it is doing them too. Do you understand that this has to do with your intention, your pureness of heart in your action so to speak. So yielding like water for the fleeing refugee helps them act with pure action and helps them surrender to their situation regardless of whether or not they escape their situation.
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Re: Taoism- Actionless action
Intellectually I do understand that everybody does the best they can according to their lights, whenever. However the blessed yin mood does not arrive because of intellectual effort.
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Re: Taoism- Actionless action
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Re: Taoism- Actionless action
There was a Daoist (Changchun ) who became an assistant to conqueror known as Ghengis Khan.Belinda wrote:Is 'like water'. i.e. the power of yin, likely to overcome aggressive forces such as IS , or Hitler's Nazis?Ormond wrote: (Nested quote removed.)
Like water.
How can yielding like water help a refugee fleeing for her life? Or a daughter threatened with forced marriage?
He prevented the whole sale slaughter of many Chinese by appealing to Khans self-interests.
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Re: Taoism- Actionless action
How does one choose which course of action , the yin action or the yang action, is the best in the circumstances? Clearly one might forgive anyone for anything, intellectually as you describe, but isn't there a time and place also for righteous anger?
You wrote:
I wondered if this is Pollyanna, but no , it is not simplistic. If this does happen according to how you describe it, (interconnection and impermanence) can you vouch from credible personal reports that meditation can lead to this armour against evil and on behalf of good?If on the other hand you recognize that the apparent horror and injustice of the world is just the foreground of a true wonder, if you see the interconnectedness of all things and recognize the impermanence of forms and the eternalness of your inner being connected to the whole of creation, you will find the need to blame fading away.
Thanks also TimLear @ #86. I am sure that you are right here, and that this is how the really efficient international diplomats work. Your effective illustration shows that there are ethics or feelings of sympathy or both that motivate the action of the wise man. Not so nice commercial advertisers and other seducers will sometimes say, "Go on you know you want to" and those are motivated not by ethics or sympathy for their victims but by self interest.
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Re: Taoism- Actionless action
Why not study them and consider their example? Give you a better idea of maybe what the means.
As for meditation? Only way is to do and find out.
-- Updated January 21st, 2016, 12:55 pm to add the following --
What I am saying with Khan and the daoist master is how "water" would be. A westerner would demand being moral in no uncertain terms and would view that Masters approach as "wrong".
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Re: Taoism- Actionless action
I'm a Westerner and I don't regard the Taoist masters' approach as wrong. I hope that you see from my reply to yours that I approve of the water/yin approach , I think it's even in the Westerners' Bible : "The soft answer turns away wrath".
I have learned the long set Tai Chi which takes about half an hour to do and I practised it for years until I got too old and stiff to do it properly. There is no harm in asking direct questions about Taoist practice with regard to contemporary problems, is there?
http://c-c-n.org/wisdom-traditions/
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Re: Taoism- Actionless action
I did not know your background till now. I just assume you did not know. As for me personally? I know I just meditated for a way and well I was moving, but I was not moving sort of experience.Belinda wrote:TimLear,
I'm a Westerner and I don't regard the Taoist masters' approach as wrong. I hope that you see from my reply to yours that I approve of the water/yin approach , I think it's even in the Westerners' Bible : "The soft answer turns away wrath".
I have learned the long set Tai Chi which takes about half an hour to do and I practised it for years until I got too old and stiff to do it properly. There is no harm in asking direct questions about Taoist practice with regard to contemporary problems, is there?
http://c-c-n.org/wisdom-traditions/
I assume you know Daoism began as a spiritual practice in its hey day. I believe the various orignal techniques and ideas have been lost due the progress of time.
I assume they were referring to very advanced spiritual modes of being. The means they had to this are lost, so only way to find out what they meant is practice with intact spiritual traditions we have now. Maybe we can figure it out that way?
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