enegue wrote:Yes, and they are both self-inflicted.
Clearly you don't understand the concept of coercion and constructive responsibility.
enegue wrote:But, He won't trample on your free-will, Pastabake. He could, but to take you kicking and screaming into Paradise would have you existing there in opposition to Him as you are here. Surely you can see the wisdom and love in telling you what to expect in a realm totally devoid of His input, and then leaving the decision about whether you want to be rescued from such a state, in your hands.
A totally selective reading of the Bible - many of the cults believe that you are either chosen or not! Freewill isn't even mentioned in the Bible. Arguably his mere existence is trampling upon my supposedly freewill. Coercion, bribery and threats don't sit well with the idea of free.
enegue wrote:Let's get this straight, Pastabake. God - the God of the Bible - has opened a door to all those whose hearts desire is to dwell with Him, and to live as a citizen in a realm over which Jesus rules as sovereign, according to God's principles of life. There is no-one standing guard at this doorway to turn people away. There is no need because people have made up their minds about what is on the other side and THEY WILL CHOOSE NOT TO ENTER. You are I can both testify to the truth of this.
Seems mighty strange that I have to give up my 'freewill' to gain entry. Or don't you quite grasp the inherent contradiction of "as long as you 'freely' do what I say you will get into heaven".
Either - you are merely following orders, in which case it doesn't say much about the character of such believers.
Or - That is simply the way you would be even without the knowledge of Gods existence.
Unfortunately this leads to a real problem, because in the first case It seems to be the antithesis of free willed. While on the other hand unless my 'nature' is to naturally (unknowingly) act in accordance to Gods wishes I'm domed and heaven is going to have almost no-one there. Funny thing is Jesus said believe in me and you shall be saved, so I don't really need to worry about such things until I'm on my death bed and then I can just play the odds, belief after all is such a tenuous thing.
enegue wrote:This is the great benefit of the "myths" that have come to us, Pastabake. You can choose to sympathise with people whose hearts were utterly and completely corrupt to such an extent that the very existence of humanity was threatened, or you can choose to sympathise with a being who rescued humanity from such a fate so that YOU would get your shot at life.
Yes, because it highly believable that the totality of the present human race came from a few people with Jewish genes. So what you're saying is that we're all descended from the incestuous off-spring of Noah and his crew and that such behaviour was more acceptable to God than the multitudes that he killed because they exercised their freewill in a manner that displeased him. So much for freewill!
enegue wrote:Please don't go down the path of giving me hypothetical scenarios about people who were not given a choice or the innocent children who weren't given a choice. For you, they aren't real, because the story is not true. If you thought otherwise you would be intimidated by the power of God, which would then remove your freedom to choose. The "myth" makes it safe and possible for you to FREELY choose.
Oh how wrong you are. I'm not impressed nor cowed by bullies. If those people were truly evil they would have killed themselves without the need for a flood. That God intervened shows that they weren't going anywhere soon and his ire was not that they were evil but that they had given him the bird.
Lets not forget that as God is all powerful the human race was NEVER under threat, nothing is beyond his capabilities. If God had wanted to be truly impressive he could have made Mars habitable and put Noah and his crew there or visa a versa.
Fundamentally you are playing a game. You know that if we don't do what God wants then we will be killed either by direct action, negligence or inaction on the part of God. Instead of placing the locus of responsibility upon the unreasonable demands of a petty God you twist it to make it the fault of those that don't do as they are told.
Every person any dictator has ever killed died not because the dictator was responsible for killing them but because they freely chose not to do the right thing in the eyes of the dictator. As you have said, they all just killed themselves.