jerlands wrote: ↑March 9th, 2018, 11:50 pm
Spectrum wrote: ↑March 9th, 2018, 10:49 pm
You are just making a straw man and claiming your own view is blatantly wrong.
I don't think you understand the point and I cannot understand your point re 'That the situation.."
Can you counter why the points I raised do not create a psychological turmoil within your psyche?
It's disturbing to me to see any form of abuse but people do it all the time and if you're asking if that creates psychological turmoil within my psyche I'd say you're incompetent to understand. People abuse animals, they abuse people they abuse the earth and all of it disturbs me. Just the simple failure in consideration disturbs but then again, this goes toward my own behavior and beliefs also. I have to make that measure. You determine God arises as a creation of man but I see it as Man becoming aware, conscious of God.
You missed my point and going way off it.
My point is ALL humans are aware of their mortality and there is nothing they can do about it. For the majority this is a big existential issue [the psychological turmoil in the subconscious] and they resort to an idealized God to deal with this existential crisis. This is the psychological reason why theists invent and believe in a God.
Spectrum wrote: ↑March 9th, 2018, 10:49 pm
My point is why are theists so concern with the after-life when there is no such proofs of its reality. Why?
Isn't there proof or do we just ignore it? I think of offspring as the notion of life after death manifest. If you think of life of the soul after death you're really asking is the identity of the person is aligned with truth or whatever it is we might consider to be that which exists.
Where is the solid proof there is life after physical death?
There are claims from those who experience Near Death Experience [NDEs] which is at best very flimsy.
Spectrum wrote: ↑March 9th, 2018, 10:49 pm
Where is your proofs that a God exists within the empirical-rational reality.
Other than reason and empirical-rational reality, what other mode of reality can you prove a God exists?
Note the evident existence of the things in the Universe prove the realness of those things in the Universe but it does not follow a God exists and created those things.
Why you are making such a claim is due to your psychology.
If God exists doesn't rely on my mind. That's akin to the question does a falling tree make a sound if no one's around to hear. Man only recognizes things, we don't create anything, not even in our imagination. We have to touch upon something for our mind to perceive it but it's perception that puts it into perspective.
If God exists doesn't rely on my mind.
I think you meant - If God exists does rely on my mind.
Btw, humans create things, tables, chairs, cars and all sorts of human-made thing.
As I had stated, humans are the co-creator of reality.
It is claimed, the moon existed before there were humans. So humans cannot be interdependent with the reality of the moon. This is Philosophical Realism.
I mentioned this but perhaps such is beyond your philosophical comprehension??
But I have stated that the Philosophical anti-realism views to counter the above that the existence of the 'moon' before and after humans existed is interdependent with humans.
This is a serious counter claim which I agree, but you have to upgrade your philosophical perspective to understand [not necessary agree] such counter views.
From the above counter views of the philosophical anti-realists the idea of god is invented by humans and not that God exists as real within an empirical-rational reality.
Spectrum wrote: ↑March 9th, 2018, 10:49 pm
What you hear is merely hearsay. It cannot be real until it is justified to be true.
So far no one has been able to prove God exists as real within an empirical-rational reality.
I say again, Why you are making such a claim [God exists] is due to your psychology to deal with an inherent existential crisis.
I'm not ignorant. I know what exists from man and what exists from God. I can see this because man is not the creator. Man only assembles bits and pieces of that which pre-exists. Was man present at the moment of creation? I think that's a possibility. But we live in a world we did not build though we seem trapped by our perception of it.
What you claim is common sense, but common sense is not verifiable knowledge.
Note I provided a counter argument;
we human perceive reality that we co-created.
Why do not insist on God positively when you have not proved it exists as real?
Spectrum wrote: ↑March 9th, 2018, 10:49 pm
Science is the best source to justify a piece of 'granite' exists.
Note What is granite -
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Granite
If a thing is proven as a piece of granite,
anyone anytime can test and verify with the same result that is it a piece of granite within the Scientific Framework, System and Method. It is opened to you to test and verify yourself.
Whereas the thing called God is not available to be tested and verified by
anyone anytime to arrive at the same result within an empirical-rational reality.
My point was the only way to truly know granite it so experience it.
Experience is not enough.
A madman can have certain experience and claim it to be true.
Sometime we experience seeing an illusion, e.g. a mirage, but that mirage is not the true and real thing.
What is real must be observable, experienced and
justified to be true.
It must be justified within a credible process, framework and system.
God is claimed to be experienced by theists, but mad people and others also claimed to experience god. In both cases it cannot be justified by credible processes.
Spectrum wrote: ↑March 9th, 2018, 10:49 pm
Suffering of the oyster?? This is ridiculous and off topic.
This will explain to you how pearls are formed.
[
To say the oyster suffers for it is ridiculous.
Spectrum wrote: ↑March 9th, 2018, 10:49 pm
Yes, it is the same for theists who idealized the idea of God into an ideology where SOME believers commit terrible evil and violent acts.
There is no pre-existing God out there waiting for believers to believe in it and no such a God commanding believers to do all sorts of evil [& good as well] acts.
Well, people do things for all sorts of reasons but that isn't the point. The point in religion is largely based on salvation so understanding that concept might lead to deeper understanding, deeper appreciation... I don't know.
'I don't know' would be acceptable.
What is fact is the idea of God is from within the mind of theist[s].
But theists cannot insist God is real within an empirical-rational reality.
The significance of the above is to prevent SOME believers [potentially > 300 million
] from insisting their God is real within an empirical-rational reality and their God revealed commands to a messenger that drive believers to kill non-believers [note the religion of peace].
Not-a-theist. Religion is a critical necessity for humanity now, but not the FUTURE.