The Christian God was water?
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The Christian God was water?
I read the Bible (except the last bit) and it struck me that when Jahve *really* wants to show himself, make a point, tell the humans where it's at and create miracles, it always involves water - or animals living in water.
The big stories are:
1: The deluge obviously
2: Moses coming from water (the Nile).
3: Moses parting the waters, his connection with water/god enabling him to control it
4: Jesus walking on water, same as above
5: David in the whale's belly
6: Jesus turning water to wine, plus fish to bread
7: And in early Christianity a fish was used as a symbol for Christians.
(8: In my own country, churches always have a ship as decoration. This is just bonus info.)
It seems to me then that Jewish religion started out with a sort of elemtary god of the water, and this god then got modified, but the original water-stories stayed. It makes sense to me - the sea is sublime, great, unfathomable, and water must have struck desert dwelling people as a divine substance. Probably many times they would worry about starvation from draught, and then be saved by rain.
Hell then is the opposite element - fire.
- Alec Smart
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Re: The Christian God was water?
I'm no Bible scholar but I don't think he turned fish into bread. I mean, what would be the point? It was more like he managed to make something like 500 sardine sandwiches out of one fish and a loaf.Raspberry_Yoghurt wrote:
6: Jesus turning water to wine, plus fish to bread
- Ormond
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Re: The Christian God was water?
I think you're on to something generally speaking. I see the Jehovah character as being a personalization of nature.Raspberry_Yoghurt wrote:I read the Bible (except the last bit) and it struck me that when Jahve *really* wants to show himself, make a point, tell the humans where it's at and create miracles, it always involves water - or animals living in water.
The most rational act a human being can undertake is to fall in love with nature/reality, to worship it, even though nature/reality can be ruthlessly unfair at times. What else is there to do that's truly rational?
What can arguing with the weather possibly accomplish? If it's raining today and ruining our picnic plans we can bitch and moan and complain and shake our fist at the sky, or we can surrender to nature/reality" and accept the fact of the rain. If we're even more rational we can move beyond mere acceptance to celebration of the rain. If we're even more rational we can fall in love with the rain, embrace it emotionally.
If we replace "nature/reality" with "Jehovah" in the paragraph above, we're starting to get the hang of religion. Personalizing the story makes it easier for many to get with this rational program.
Note that none of the above answers the question of whether reality is somehow intelligent. Who knows? Not me, not you, not anybody. It really doesn't matter. What matters is that we are very very small and here for a very very short time, and so however we can find a way to form a positive relationship with where we find ourselves is probably a pretty good plan.
It's a waste of time to argue over whether where we find ourselves should be called "nature" or "Jehovah". THAT is NOT rational.
What's rational is to get about the business of making peace with this place, to do whatever it takes to have the best possible time while we're here, by whatever means works for us personally.
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Re: The Christian God was water?
Ah, I got that wrong.Alec Smart wrote:I'm no Bible scholar but I don't think he turned fish into bread. I mean, what would be the point? It was more like he managed to make something like 500 sardine sandwiches out of one fish and a loaf.Raspberry_Yoghurt wrote:
6: Jesus turning water to wine, plus fish to bread
From Mathhew
So yes, there's more bread than fish involved, but the fish is still there13 When Jesus heard what had happened, he withdrew by boat privately to a solitary place. Hearing of this, the crowds followed him on foot from the towns. 14 When Jesus landed and saw a large crowd, he had compassion on them and healed their sick.
15 As evening approached, the disciples came to him and said, “This is a remote place, and it’s already getting late. Send the crowds away, so they can go to the villages and buy themselves some food.”
16 Jesus replied, “They do not need to go away. You give them something to eat.”
17 “We have here only five loaves of bread and two fish,” they answered.
18 “Bring them here to me,” he said. 19 And he directed the people to sit down on the grass. Taking the five loaves and the two fish and looking up to heaven, he gave thanks and broke the loaves. Then he gave them to the disciples, and the disciples gave them to the people. 20 They all ate and were satisfied, and the disciples picked up twelve basketfuls of broken pieces that were left over. 21 The number of those who ate was about five thousand men, besides women and children.
It just struck me - I read the Bible for general culture. And when you get to the New Testament, it just abounds with all things water - fish, fishermen, fishers of souls, water, rivers etc. That struck me as peculiar, given the whole thing happens in a setting which is generally very arid and almost desert.
- Felix
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Re: The Christian God was water?
Here's a selfie of him fishing with them (or I should say for them) on the Sea of Galilee:
https://goo.gl/rVxHG8
- Burning ghost
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Re: The Christian God was water?
If you look closely enough all pantheisms are inferior to some other sumpreme being/force. It makes sense that during the advent of farming water would be a damn important component of life and early civilization, not to mention the natural waters wonders we can still look upon with awe to this very day.
- Felix
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Re: The Christian God was water?
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Re: The Christian God was water?
Generally a very good idea! I don't doubt that religions are something that real people do, not something that God does.It seems to me then that Jewish religion started out with a sort of elemtary god of the water, and this god then got modified, but the original water-stories stayed. It makes sense to me - the sea is sublime, great, unfathomable, and water must have struck desert dwelling people as a divine substance. Probably many times they would worry about starvation from draught, and then be saved by rain.
Hell then is the opposite element - fire.
Actual sacred springs are common to old British religions too, and the tradition is perpetuated locally in annual well dressings at "lady's wells". A defended site had to have a water source.
Water transport was also more feasible for invaders and colonisers such as your lot who successfully invaded the countries of the Anglo Saxons , Picts, and Scots.
Christian churches have fonts for baptising babies. Some old Christian churches are intentionally built over underground water courses which 'enter' the church where the pure water the piscina and the font are , and 'exit' at that wall of the church outside of which the dead are buried.
-- Updated Sat Jul 16, 2016 5:39 am to add the following --
I don't quite agree about Hell generally as believed to be a fiery place. I think that the tradition of Hell as quiet dark forgetfulness and burial in the ground is quite common , rather benign actually. The Jehovah's Witnesses believe this version of Hell, and the word may mean just what the JWs say it does.
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Re: The Christian God was water?
speed and direction; water being likened to the Spirit, the Soul, the inner man, he and she, the Spirit of Mankind as he walks the Earth.
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