Philosophical heckling
- Renee
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Philosophical heckling
How come it does not happen in reverse? Secular thinkers going to church, and interrupting the liturgy with objections, or pointing out self-contradictions in bible quotes at fundamentalist evangelical Sunday congregations?
Fair is fair. If the seculars can't have peace from the religious right, it ought to be also the other way.
- Burning ghost
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Re: Philosophical heckling
Does it say something in the bible about turning the other cheek?
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Re: Philosophical heckling
- Sy Borg
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Re: Philosophical heckling
Because we would be ferociously abused and violently assaulted by adherents to "the religion of love".Renee wrote:I had been to secular Humanist meetings which had been constantly interrupted by fundamentalist religionists heckling the speakers.
How come it does not happen in reverse? Secular thinkers going to church, and interrupting the liturgy with objections, or pointing out self-contradictions in bible quotes at fundamentalist evangelical Sunday congregations?
Theists believe that they are in touch with the sacred and thus they believe their opinions are of value while those of secularists are simply nothing. Thus they feel justified in trampling over others, as they have done throughout history. Ganging up to destroy others is highly successful in terms of group selection; secularists have never been able to compete with theists and we remain under theistic control today.
We do not live in, and have never lived in, a secular society; theism faded somewhat but remains easily the dominant force in society. With about 80% of elected politicians in the US being religious, theists have continued to control world affairs for decades. Whether it's Confucianism, Buddhism, Islam, Christianity, Hinduism or Taoism, religion maintains control over public policy and socially. So theists heckling in a secular gathering would broadly be considered to simply be reasonable dissent, while atheists heckling in churches would be considered to be disgustingly disrespectful for failing to respect their worship.
This is ultimately about perceived value as a human being. Consider the reason why theists would not broadly be criticised for disrespect for their heckling and you will see how the game is played. To many theists, secularists are barely even human. To them we are nothing - dirt to be blown away at the time of judgement. I don't think secular society appreciates the extent to which they are dehumanised and objectified by theistic cabals in power.
- Renee
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- Sy Borg
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Re: Philosophical heckling
What I find most remarkable is that few other groups are as combative and warlike as adherents of the Abrahamic "religions of love", a term sounding increasingly Orwellian in context.
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Re: Philosophical heckling
They use media to demonize and mock the religious and use the courts to destroy their businesses. What the hell do they expect? A pat on the head?
- Sy Borg
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Re: Philosophical heckling
So it's no concern to such theists that a humanist group might want to share their ideas and fellowship without gratuitous interference from antagonists. Why worry about the concerns of atheist scum, right? Secularists have always been hated and controlled by forceful theists and the situation remains the same today, despite the fact that most believers are probably benign.
The situation is changing very slowly, but actual secular (as opposed to faux secular) societies would seem at least a century away. Until then, theists will continue to be able to largely control and harass secularists while strategically claiming the opposite.
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Re: Philosophical heckling
- Burning ghost
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Re: Philosophical heckling
Not in Buddhism.Dark Matter wrote:Cool. it's called "karma."
- Sy Borg
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Re: Philosophical heckling
More venom from the religion of love :lol:Dark Matter wrote:Aw, the poor atheist. :cry:
- Burning ghost
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- Renee
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Re: Philosophical heckling
This is very true. Karl Marx, Vladimir Lenin, Matyas Rakosi were anti-theists; Socrates was (or can be argued that he was) an atheist.Burning ghost wrote:There is a difference between antitheists and atheists.
I wonder if there are terms for those Christians who are opposed to other Christian faiths to the same strength as (respectively) anti-theists and atheists. For instance, Baptists will never accept other Christian faiths as true or as viable even; and in the age of protestantism actual wars were fought between protestant armies and RC armies. That's serious enough to be called an anti-theist I'd say. Anti-theist of the gods of competing Christian strains of faith.
Not only were wars started, but heretics were burnt at the stake by Christians because the alleged and then convicted heretics' Christian gods were regarded as false idols. Burning heretics is a form of anti-theism, I'd say, and nobody was an atheist involved in these events (which rampantly occurred in an era of Christian and world history).
So yes, burning ghost, I agree with you, anti-theism and atheism are quite different concepts. One simply believes there is no god or gods (atheism); anti-theists actively pursue the reversal of faith in others, from one god to another god, or from one or more gods to no gods.
I also agree that it is important to recognize that this difference exists.
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Re: Philosophical heckling
speech is for everyone not just those whose voice I like the sound of. So I listen to all opinion across the spectrum. Even if you
are ignorant or hypocritical or bigoted you still have a right to be heard the same as anyone else. No one should be denied this
- Burning ghost
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Re: Philosophical heckling
No matter what you say someone will oppose you. You can refute what they say, argue and try and convert them, or you can simply try and understand and see if you can find a fresh perspective. Regardless of what you choose to do you always fall prey to each of these because you are merely human with mere human judgementality.
That is my judgement anyway! Take it as a pat on the back or a kick up the **** ... your choice not mine
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