God is an Impossibility.

[Jacob10]

The key thing to note with electromagnetic and electrical field interactions is not so much the waves which are DIFFERENT, it’s the neutral wall that these waves hit.

As both these DIFFERENT wave forms “toggle” and interact, a neutral which has separate and divided “toggling” +/- electromagnetic and electrical forces within it cannot pass through the wall either way without it experiencing push/pull forces hence why this neutral will vibrate or toggle and eventually still itself at the wall.

[Sy Borg]

Jacob, if you read the material in the provided link you will find the answer to your questions, and more. Don't ask me physics questions, ask people who actually study the subject.

Why are you holding strong opinions about this anyway? Please tell me in your own words what know about Einstein's theory of relativity.

[Charlemagne]

Mostly, when quizzing theists, I look for signs of spiritual advancement, with unusually high levels of maturity, honesty, humility, goodwill, perceptiveness and a sense of inner peace. If those qualities are not manifest, then we are dealing with someone with no special knowledge to offer, just dogma.

I look for the same things when I am quizzing atheists. But I find a lot of anger, a lot of dismissiveness, a lot of very immature reasoning. Many atheists are downright dogmatic about their atheism, though there is no way they can prove God is impossible. I have been waiting all my 82 years for that proof and have yet to hear it.

[Sy Borg]

Mostly, when quizzing theists, I look for signs of spiritual advancement, with unusually high levels of maturity, honesty, humility, goodwill, perceptiveness and a sense of inner peace. If those qualities are not manifest, then we are dealing with someone with no special knowledge to offer, just dogma.

I look for the same things when I am quizzing atheists. But I find a lot of anger, a lot of dismissiveness, a lot of very immature reasoning. Many atheists are downright dogmatic about their atheism, though there is no way they can prove God is impossible. I have been waiting all my 82 years for that proof and have yet to hear it.

Well, you don't find anger here and, until recently, no dismissiveness. I have been agnostic for much of my life. However, I looked long and hard into the issue over the past year, because I felt the key lay in NDEs and death comes ever closer. I was already unsure because Susan Blackmore had examined NDEs in detail over a period of years, hoping to find evidence that something extraordinary was happening. However, she was disappointed to find no decent evidence at all, and she became an atheist.

This year, I subscribed to a YT channel, where each video was an NDE account. I was ready to believe. What I noticed was that almost all of them were very, very culturally specific. Christians saw Jesus or God. Muslims saw Mohammed. Again and again. Yet atheists never seemed to see Jesus or Mohammed, despite their experiences being very similar otherwise. These were obviously not ontic experiences but death dreams.

So I now see that God is entirely subjective. There is no ontic component to God, and I am especially dismissive of young Earth creationism and intelligent design, the latter being a back door attempt to prove the former.

However, this is not being dismissive of God. The subjective domain is obviously beyond important!! Does it matter if God is in your mind because it's a big spirit bloke who hates gays exists, or if your ancestors over the last hundred thousand years all believed in personified forces of nature and that shaped your brain to believe? No. Still, importance is not ontology.

You will never find proof that God is impossible, just as you will never find proof that ghosts and leprechauns are impossible. It is impossible to prove that anything is impossible. As long as you keep your mental wall up and refuse to even consider alternatives, you can rest easy that no one will ever breach your defences.

More to the point, atheists don't claim that being so makes them better than Christians. However, Christians believe that they are better people than atheists - more moral, decent, fair, kind and compassionate. Many claim that atheists are sub-human animals, that theism is required to be fully human.

Yet, I frequently see theists behave dishonestly on the forum, especially in turning discussions into personal attacks. I have been on forums for decades and have had hundreds of debates with Christians - and atheists. I have rarely been impressed by the former, aside from a couple of theists who engaged in selfless volunteer work. But their conceptions and ideas, no, none have been even slightly impressive and many have been patronising, rude and dishonest to some extent. Yes, some atheists are angry and arrogant, but no less than the theists I encounter.

It's not their -isms that makes them arrogant and rude, it's their humanity. Theists claim that their religion helps them rise above that, but the evidence points to the opposite - that theism drives arrogance and hostility, especially towards vulnerable minorities. Given the claims of theism, it is fair to expect excellent character displayed in all dealings. The character failures I see in theists, again and again, only highlight the paucity of their faith.

[Tegularius]

It's always been the case, in theism especially, those who force an agenda deeply resent those who don't accept or yield. If you can't kill or punish the deniers, as was done so prolifically in prior times, send them to hell instead; it's the kind of finality which offers the theist a great deal of satisfaction in contemplating.

[Charlemagne]

You will never find proof that God is impossible, just as you will never find proof that ghosts and leprechauns are impossible. It is impossible to prove that anything is impossible. As long as you keep your mental wall up and refuse to even consider alternatives, you can rest easy that no one will ever breach your defences.




It's not their -isms that makes them arrogant and rude, it's their humanity. Theists claim that their religion helps them rise above that, but the evidence points to the opposite - that theism drives arrogance and hostility, especially towards vulnerable minorities. Given the claims of theism, it is fair to expect excellent character displayed in all dealings. The character failures I see in theists, again and again, only highlight the paucity of their faith.

[Charlemagne]

It would be exhausting to reply fully to your post because you are all over the place with unfounded assertions that a person as bright as you ought to know better than to make. I'll be brief as possible.

You're right, it's impossible to prove that anything is impossible. But it's very possible to prove that something is possible.

God is either possible or impossible. God is possible because you cannot prove that God is impossible. So just think about that. If God is not just possible, but actual, then the only case you have to make is that you don't understand how he is actual. Welcome to the club! It is simply a case of the finite trying in vain, by the power of pure reason, to understand the Infinite.

As to your second point, I know a great many religious people of sterling character. Yes, some Christians are hypocrites or weak in their faith. That is not the failure of religion but the failure (free will) of people to live up to the values of their religion. I have worked in prison ministry for ten years. One fact that cannot be avoided is that very few prisoners attend chapel services of any faith, and virtually none of the hardened criminals attend services of any faith. I cannot believe that many people who go to church as often as they can are likely to end up in prison. At least some of the few in prison who attend ministry services will turn their lives around. It is certainly possible to believe this, and impossible for me not to believe it.

[Sy Borg]

It would be exhausting to reply fully to your post because you are all over the place with unfounded assertions that a person as bright as you ought to know better than to make. I'll be brief as possible.

Not good enough. To say I am "all over the place" and not give me a chance to counter.

You know very well that my post was coherent. Don't lie to win cheap points. Play fair.

You're right, it's impossible to prove that anything is impossible. But it's very possible to prove that something is possible.

God is either possible or impossible. God is possible because you cannot prove that God is impossible. So just think about that. If God is not just possible, but actual, then the only case you have to make is that you don't understand how he is actual. Welcome to the club! It is simply a case of the finite trying in vain, by the power of pure reason, to understand the Infinite.

Zeus is either possible or impossible. Zeus is possible because you cannot prove that Zeus is impossible. So just think about that. If Zeus is not just possible, but actual, then the only case you have to make is that you don't understand how he is actual. Welcome to the club! It is simply a case of mortals trying in vain, by the power of pure reason, to understand the gods.

At least some of the few in prison who attend ministry services will turn their lives around. It is certainly possible to believe this, and impossible for me not to believe it.

People have turned their lives around with Scientology and Ayahuasca too. Efficacy is not ontology.

[Belindi]

Charlemagne wrote:

At least some of the few in prison who attend ministry services will turn their lives around. It is certainly possible to believe this, and impossible for me not to believe it.

The myth is internally coherent. Its logic depends on the basic premise that a little good overcomes a big lot of evil, which is usually expressed as the metaphor of a light dispelling darkness.

Reportage of current events suggest otherwise, so to accept the tenet of the myth in question is an act of faith. It's dreadful thought "What if nobody had faith that a little good overcomes a lot of evil?"

The disagreements here don't usually dispute the morality of the myth, but dispute the supernaturalist language by which the myth is expressed.

The Bible should ideally be read as a history of God, a historical process of the development of an idea. This is not possible for any but scholars, as very few preachers are capable of teaching the Bible as history.

[Charlemagne]

You're right, it's impossible to prove that anything is impossible. But it's very possible to prove that something is possible.

God is either possible or impossible. God is possible because you cannot prove that God is impossible. So just think about that. If God is not just possible, but actual, then the only case you have to make is that you don't understand how he is actual. Welcome to the club! It is simply a case of the finite trying in vain, by the power of pure reason, to understand the Infinite.

Zeus is either possible or impossible. Zeus is possible because you cannot prove that Zeus is impossible. So just think about that. If Zeus is not just possible, but actual, then the only case you have to make is that you don't understand how he is actual. Welcome to the club! It is simply a case of mortals trying in vain, by the power of pure reason, to understand the gods.

At least some of the few in prison who attend ministry services will turn their lives around. It is certainly possible to believe this, and impossible for me not to believe it.

People have turned their lives around with Scientology and Ayahuasca too. Efficacy is not ontology.
[/quote]

You are equating the probability of God with that of Zeus? Good luck with that! Zeus does not rank as a supreme god, since he was created, whereas God is uncreated. The chance that we will be encountered by Zeus after we die is not even suggested in Greek mythology. The idea that Zeus can offer us eternal bliss or eternal damnation is also not even suggested in Greek mythology.

I am not aware that scientology and Ayahuasca are prominent in the prison ministries. Can you show me where they bother to be?

[Sy Borg]

You're right, it's impossible to prove that anything is impossible. But it's very possible to prove that something is possible.

God is either possible or impossible. God is possible because you cannot prove that God is impossible. So just think about that. If God is not just possible, but actual, then the only case you have to make is that you don't understand how he is actual. Welcome to the club! It is simply a case of the finite trying in vain, by the power of pure reason, to understand the Infinite.

Zeus is either possible or impossible. Zeus is possible because you cannot prove that Zeus is impossible. So just think about that. If Zeus is not just possible, but actual, then the only case you have to make is that you don't understand how he is actual. Welcome to the club! It is simply a case of mortals trying in vain, by the power of pure reason, to understand the gods.

At least some of the few in prison who attend ministry services will turn their lives around. It is certainly possible to believe this, and impossible for me not to believe it.

People have turned their lives around with Scientology and Ayahuasca too. Efficacy is not ontology.

You are equating the probability of God with that of Zeus? Good luck with that! Zeus does not rank as a supreme god, since he was created, whereas God is uncreated. The chance that we will be encountered by Zeus after we die is not even suggested in Greek mythology. The idea that Zeus can offer us eternal bliss or eternal damnation is also not even suggested in Greek mythology.

I am not aware that scientology and Ayahuasca are prominent in the prison ministries. Can you show me where they bother to be?

Yes, I am aware that there was much competition amongst the ancients to have the most powerful gods, and the the Middle Easterns went for gold and devised a deity who could easily beat up all the others. Zeus could offer one eternal bliss or great torment too, but you are an atheist to Zeus, just as I am an atheist to Yahweh. There's no real difference.

That's because Yahweh, like Zeus, is just mythology converted to fantasy by modern literal readings of the Bible's metaphorical content.

I'd said said that people have turned their lives around with scientology and Ayahuasca. Most people don't go near prison so it's absurd to limit the idea of helpful turning points to just felons. And again, efficacy is not ontology.

[EricPH]

The myth is internally coherent. Its logic depends on the basic premise that a little good overcomes a big lot of evil, which is usually expressed as the metaphor of a light dispelling darkness.

True justice can never happen here on Earth. To date, millions have been murdered, raped robbed and suffered all kinds of injustice. If there is no God, then true justice can never happen. A murderer can be punished, but this does not bring the victim back to life. Only God can raise the dead, in a greater good life after death.

[Sy Borg]

No one can raise the dead.

No one.*

The dead are gone. Game over. Others may come later on who remind us of those who have gone, they may have many similar qualities to the deceased, but those particular personalities of the dead are lost to the past, their influence a relic that will erode over time. A great deal of beauty and ugliness is simply lost. Gone - reduced to a mere idea, a potential.

There is life after death - the lives of those who survive the deceased and continue on. Many would love to believe it was true that other dimensions of reality exist where dead spirits go to have a fabulous time for eternity, without the pitfalls of physical existence. However, the prospect is wildly speculative at best, a damaging delusion at worst.





* Barring the revival of the clinically dead by doctors

[Belindi]

The myth is internally coherent. Its logic depends on the basic premise that a little good overcomes a big lot of evil, which is usually expressed as the metaphor of a light dispelling darkness.

True justice can never happen here on Earth. To date, millions have been murdered, raped robbed and suffered all kinds of injustice. If there is no God, then true justice can never happen. A murderer can be punished, but this does not bring the victim back to life. Only God can raise the dead, in a greater good life after death.

Quite right Eric. However atheists like me think that the "greater good life" is not life after death but is always present and as Jesus or someone else in the New Testament said eternity is closer to us than our skins or something. I can't find the reference.

It's a mistake to confuse eternity and time, So-called 'life after death' is imagined to take place in time, e.g. beginning at the time of death .Eternity is more like infinity, having no beginning or end, and so eternity is always with us .

[LuckyR]

The myth is internally coherent. Its logic depends on the basic premise that a little good overcomes a big lot of evil, which is usually expressed as the metaphor of a light dispelling darkness.

True justice can never happen here on Earth. To date, millions have been murdered, raped robbed and suffered all kinds of injustice. If there is no God, then true justice can never happen. A murderer can be punished, but this does not bring the victim back to life. Only God can raise the dead, in a greater good life after death.

Very true. The error is that the universe needs "true justice".