Philosophy Discussion Forums

There are religions without dieties, e.g., Buddhism and Jainism, but they have some form of afterlife - don't know of a religion that believes our earthly existence is the be all and end all. Swami Rama wrote a book entitled "Enlightenment without God."

3uGH7D4MLj wrote: ↑May 8th, 2018, 11:00 pm

ThomasHobbes wrote: ↑May 8th, 2018, 4:29 pm This is puzzling.
"Explanations" for what? Are you asking?
What is the 'exercise' exactly?

Say you were studying firefighting in the U.S. Fire engines, fire companies, fire houses, equipment, etc. Now imagine there was no such thing as fire. Why would they be doing those firefighting activities? Mmm?

Exactly.
What are you asking?

Burning ghost wrote: ↑October 22nd, 2017, 1:56 am I was suggesting that the process is about passing down knowledge to the next generation.

That runs very parallel with my definition of 'religion';
Religion is the congregation of those infected with the same (or similar) strain of 'belief'.
The constant 'going to church' reinfects and enhances the survival of the 'belief infection'.
Thus the longevity of religions/beliefs!
Symptomatic of a belief infection is that it MUST constantly be 'defended', 'justified/fed' and 'propagated/spread'!
A 'religion' is any congregation, any 'strain' of belief; 'free-will/choice', 'freedom', 'money', 'aliens', 'crystal power', 'allopathic medicine/drugs'...
No 'Gods' or 'afterlife' required.
'Religion' carrying the 'belief/Knowledge' from generation to generation!
Not exactly what you meant, I don't think, but parallel, nonetheless. *__-

Namelesss wrote: ↑May 11th, 2018, 8:34 pm ...

This dab smacks of Judaism.

There is no afterlife in Judaism.

There are no gods in Judaism. Only one god.

ThomasHobbes wrote: ↑May 9th, 2018, 6:27 pm

3uGH7D4MLj wrote: ↑May 8th, 2018, 11:00 pm Say you were studying firefighting in the U.S. Fire engines, fire companies, fire houses, equipment, etc. Now imagine there was no such thing as fire. Why would they be doing those firefighting activities? Mmm?

Exactly.
What are you asking?

The explanation: My penchant is to go towards thoughts of a phenomenally complex and sophisticated artwork. It would encompass all disciplines; fantastic architecture, mind-blowing musical instruments, stained-glass, paintings, choral works, environments, theatrical performance, philosophy, etc. etc., all loosely coordinated, from the benign act of the lighting of a candle to actual human sacrifice, brutally authoritarian, sweeping across oceans of space, eons of time, unified by an inexplicable shared assumption bundle of esthetic meaning.

One extraterrestrial to the other, "maybe it's not a genius artwork, but a belief structure initiated by fear."

The firefighter analog brings to mind a project of photographer Gregory Crewdson. https://www.google.com/search?q=gregory ... ent=safari#

Namelesss wrote: ↑May 11th, 2018, 8:34 pmA 'religion' is any congregation, any 'strain' of belief; 'free-will/choice', 'freedom', 'money', 'aliens', 'crystal power', 'allopathic medicine/drugs'...
No 'Gods' or 'afterlife' required.

Fair point. Cargo cults, cults of personality such as Mao, Kim or Trump, even sporting teams, Anything can be a locus for religious devotion. Heck, my best jamming pal is almost religious about coffee :)

-1- wrote: ↑May 12th, 2018, 12:51 pm

Namelesss wrote: ↑May 11th, 2018, 8:34 pm ...

This dab smacks of Judaism.

It also 'smacks' of other paths and understandings.
Do you have a problem with Judaism?

This 'dab' is called an ellipsis;
Ellipsis - Wikipedia
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ellipsis

An ellipsis (plural ellipses; from the Ancient Greek: ἔλλειψις, élleipsis, "omission" or "falling short") is a series of dots (typically three, such as "…") that usually indicates an intentional omission of a word, sentence, or whole section from a text without altering its original meaning.

There is no afterlife in Judaism.

So?

There are no gods in Judaism. Only one god.

So?
The same is true for all mystic paths (Jewish, Muslim, Xtian, etc...), One God/Self!, ALL inclusive!
Buddhism (what Buddha taught) isn't about 'Gods' either, or an 'afterlife' (other than avoiding the possibility of one), yet you are not 'smacking of' Buddhism.
Again I ask, you have a problem with Judaism?

3uGH7D4MLj wrote: ↑May 12th, 2018, 1:38 pm

ThomasHobbes wrote: ↑May 9th, 2018, 6:27 pm

Exactly.
What are you asking?

The explanation: My penchant is to go towards thoughts of a phenomenally complex and sophisticated artwork. It would encompass all disciplines; fantastic architecture, mind-blowing musical instruments, stained-glass, paintings, choral works, environments, theatrical performance, philosophy, etc. etc., all loosely coordinated, from the benign act of the lighting of a candle to actual human sacrifice, brutally authoritarian, sweeping across oceans of space, eons of time, unified by an inexplicable shared assumption bundle of esthetic meaning.

One extraterrestrial to the other, "maybe it's not a genius artwork, but a belief structure initiated by fear."

The firefighter analog brings to mind a project of photographer Gregory Crewdson. https://www.google.com/search?q=gregory ... ent=safari#

Your response has nothing to do with the thread as far as I can see, and the thread seems to have nothing to do with anything.

ThomasHobbes wrote: ↑May 13th, 2018, 11:05 am

3uGH7D4MLj wrote: ↑May 12th, 2018, 1:38 pm
The explanation: My penchant is to go towards thoughts of a phenomenally complex and sophisticated artwork. It would encompass all disciplines; fantastic architecture, mind-blowing musical instruments, stained-glass, paintings, choral works, environments, theatrical performance, philosophy, etc. etc., all loosely coordinated, from the benign act of the lighting of a candle to actual human sacrifice, brutally authoritarian, sweeping across oceans of space, eons of time, unified by an inexplicable shared assumption bundle of esthetic meaning.

One extraterrestrial to the other, "maybe it's not a genius artwork, but a belief structure initiated by fear."

The firefighter analog brings to mind a project of photographer Gregory Crewdson. https://www.google.com/search?q=gregory ... ent=safari#

Your response has nothing to do with the thread as far as I can see, and the thread seems to have nothing to do with anything.

Maybe I can explain. Take the Crewdson photos, the photographer has set up firefighting situations with suburban houses, fire equipment, firemen, and bystanders, homeowners, etc. completely set up, and taken aerial photos. It's art, not life, and it makes perfect sense.

Now imagine human religion, cathedrals, ceremonies, music, processions, holy day celebrations and ritual, viewed by someone who has no concept of God or afterlife. One way to figure it all out, explain it, is to suppose that it is an elaborate artwork -- that's what I'm trying to get at.

I'm trying to address the OP.

3uGH7D4MLj wrote: ↑May 13th, 2018, 10:18 pm

ThomasHobbes wrote: ↑May 13th, 2018, 11:05 am

Your response has nothing to do with the thread as far as I can see, and the thread seems to have nothing to do with anything.

Maybe I can explain. Take the Crewdson photos, the photographer has set up firefighting situations with suburban houses, fire equipment, firemen, and bystanders, homeowners, etc. completely set up, and taken aerial photos. It's art, not life, and it makes perfect sense.

Now imagine human religion, cathedrals, ceremonies, music, processions, holy day celebrations and ritual, viewed by someone who has no concept of God or afterlife. One way to figure it all out, explain it, is to suppose that it is an elaborate artwork -- that's what I'm trying to get at.

I'm trying to address the OP.

All like is performance.
Only fools believe the drama is truth.

Namelesss wrote: ↑May 12th, 2018, 6:26 pm

-1- wrote: ↑May 12th, 2018, 12:51 pm
This dab smacks of Judaism.

It also 'smacks' of other paths and understandings.
Do you have a problem with Judaism?

This 'dab' is called an ellipsis;
Ellipsis - Wikipedia
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ellipsis

An ellipsis (plural ellipses; from the Ancient Greek: ἔλλειψις, élleipsis, "omission" or "falling short") is a series of dots (typically three, such as "…") that usually indicates an intentional omission of a word, sentence, or whole section from a text without altering its original meaning.

There is no afterlife in Judaism.

So?

There are no gods in Judaism. Only one god.

So?
The same is true for all mystic paths (Jewish, Muslim, Xtian, etc...), One God/Self!, ALL inclusive!
Buddhism (what Buddha taught) isn't about 'Gods' either, or an 'afterlife' (other than avoiding the possibility of one), yet you are not 'smacking of' Buddhism.
Again I ask, you have a problem with Judaism?

Why would I have a problem with Judaism? I'm Jewish.

Sorry, I wasn't here to answer earlier.

Do you have a problem of any sort? I know a good therapist.

Namelesss wrote: ↑May 12th, 2018, 6:26 pm

-1- wrote: ↑May 12th, 2018, 12:51 pm
This dab smacks of Judaism.

There is no afterlife in Judaism.

So?

There are no gods in Judaism. Only one god.

So?

You very conveniently did not understand my point, Nameless.

1. The thread title said "Religion without gods or afterlife."

2. Judaism has no gods. Period. It has one god, not gods. You said "So?" Your criticism shows your superficial understanding. I made a point that judaism satisfies the criterion of "no gods". It has one god. Not gods. Are you now satisfied? Becasue the criterion is.

3. The thread title said, clearly, no afterlife. In judaism, there is no afterlife. Judaism therefore satisfies the second criterion asked for.

4. Instead of getting IMMEDIATELY angry when you read the word "Jew", please try to apply your brains first. In my opinion you woefully failed at this.

5. Therefore, to come back to the topic, the topic has three criteria: 1. the thing be a religion. 2. It have no gods. 3. It have no afterlife.

Judaism satisfies all three criteria: 1. It is a religion. 2. It has no gods. 3. It has no afterlife.

So there you have it. The problem, the reasoning, the conclusion.

Then you overtly accuse me of being a Jew hater. Whereas I am aware of my religion's tenets, while you go ballistic because you read the word "Jew".

-1- - One god is not "no gods." It was clear to me that burning ghost was talking about atheism which does not equal monotheism. However, a "religion without a god or gods," seems like an oxymoron to me because whatever you worship becomes your god either literally or figuratively.

Also, why do you say that Judaism has no belief in an afterlife? Does not the Torah speak of a place called Sheol to which one "goes down" following this life?

Felix wrote: ↑May 17th, 2018, 1:41 pm -1- - One god is not "no gods." It was clear to me that burning ghost was talking about atheism which does not equal monotheism. However, a "religion without a god or gods," seems like an oxymoron to me because whatever you worship becomes your god either literally or figuratively.

Also, why do you say that Judaism has no belief in an afterlife? Does not the Torah speak of a place called Sheol to which one "goes down" following this life?

VERY late reply from me here! :/

The OP is asking a hypothetical question. I was wondering what people could see in the patterns and behaviors of humans that could be imagined - in some way or another - to serve a societal/personal purpose/benefit.

Note: I will likely lock this thread soon (ish) and rehash the hypothetical in a fresh thread with some of my own very speculative musings bringing into focus some tenuous links to neurosciences, psychology, mneumonics, Jungian archetypes, and a hodgepodge of other items including esoteric ideas (“magick” and it’s positioning in cultural development in regards to scientific study, cults, mneumonics, and religious institutions.) Will also open with a selection of cautionary quotes from Levi-Strauss and/or Geertz regarding the danger of applying broad speculative ideas to various different cultures.

I was wondering what people could see in the patterns and behaviors of humans that could be imagined

Seems to me there are tons of reasons to go to a church or perform a religious ceremony which have absolutely nothing to do with belief in a deity?
For example humans like to copy whatever other humans are doing, so if everyone else goes to church then that can be a big influence.
Is this the kind of thing you are looking for BG?