Why Believe in a God when It is Impossible to Prove?

Discuss philosophical questions regarding theism (and atheism), and discuss religion as it relates to philosophy. This includes any philosophical discussions that happen to be about god, gods, or a 'higher power' or the belief of them. This also generally includes philosophical topics about organized or ritualistic mysticism or about organized, common or ritualistic beliefs in the existence of supernatural phenomenon.
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philosopher19
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Re: Why Believe in a God when It is Impossible to Prove?

Post by philosopher19 »

LuckyR wrote: June 25th, 2021, 2:28 am
philosopher19 wrote: June 24th, 2021, 5:52 am
LuckyR wrote: June 22nd, 2021, 4:24 pm
philosopher19 wrote: June 22nd, 2021, 5:47 am In response to the title of this thread, I thought the following ought to be added:

It is not impossible to prove God. Rather, it is impossible to meaningfully/semantically reject God's existence. This was discussed here:

viewtopic.php?f=1&t=17304
What do you mean by "reject"?
I mean like in the following way:

I reject the three-sidedness of triangles. Just as it is impossible for me to meaningfully/semantically reject the triangularity of triangle, it is meaningfully/semantically impossible for me to reject the existence of God.
A triangle is physical, gods are metaphysical. No similarity (from the standpoint of proof) whatsoever.

Or to put it another way, it is in fact impossible for you (personally) to reject the existance of god, because you have faith. Great. Faith by definition kicks in in the absence of proof.
Not because I have faith, but because pure reason dictates it. I have faith that it will not rain tomorrow, but it is not guaranteed that it will not rain tomorrow. I don't have faith that triangles have three sides, rather, I know triangles have three sides. This is a matter of pure reason. Similarly, I know that only God can be said to indubitably exist. The proof for this was provided in the link I gave. I didn't think it was appropriate for me to present the argument/proof here. I just thought it appropriate to highlight that there is such a proof. If you have any objections to the proof/argument, then post your objection on that thread as I think it best to discuss it there (if there is to be a discussion that is).
Darshan
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Re: Why Believe in a God when It is Impossible to Prove?

Post by Darshan »

Earthellism can prove the existence of God. This philosophy which was born from the ashes of 9/11 and from the book "The Life and Death of Planet Earth" can prove God exists. The greatest obstacle to proving the existence of God is the problem of evil. Earthellism solves that problem for the first time ever. By proving there is no hell below us in the book cited earlier and that God is not here the problem of evil is solved. Hell or earthell is the surface of this planet and not below us. God is not on earthell and that is why it seems impossible to prove of God's existence. The real proof that God exists is the fact that human beings have a soul which is much older than our physical bodies. Our parents did not create our souls only our bodies.
Therefore the creator of your soul is your/our God and God is not here but in heaven where our souls exist before we come to earthell. Only God's love is here and Karma is also here all radiating from God in heaven to earthell. We will be united with God when we go to heaven but those human devils who commit genocide like the 19 hijackers and Osama Bin Laden will NEVER be united with God and remain on earthell for eternity.
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LuckyR
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Re: Why Believe in a God when It is Impossible to Prove?

Post by LuckyR »

Darshan wrote: September 18th, 2021, 10:33 pm Earthellism can prove the existence of God. This philosophy which was born from the ashes of 9/11 and from the book "The Life and Death of Planet Earth" can prove God exists. The greatest obstacle to proving the existence of God is the problem of evil. Earthellism solves that problem for the first time ever. By proving there is no hell below us in the book cited earlier and that God is not here the problem of evil is solved. Hell or earthell is the surface of this planet and not below us. God is not on earthell and that is why it seems impossible to prove of God's existence. The real proof that God exists is the fact that human beings have a soul which is much older than our physical bodies. Our parents did not create our souls only our bodies.
Therefore the creator of your soul is your/our God and God is not here but in heaven where our souls exist before we come to earthell. Only God's love is here and Karma is also here all radiating from God in heaven to earthell. We will be united with God when we go to heaven but those human devils who commit genocide like the 19 hijackers and Osama Bin Laden will NEVER be united with God and remain on earthell for eternity.
Several things, first explaining the presence of evil is not the main problem with proving the existance of gods, rather it is the total lack of objective evidence (proof) of it. Secondly, you seem to be confusing something being "proof" of another thing vs being "not inconsistant with" another thing. Lastly, you use as part of your proof, the presence of another unproven entity (souls).

Better to actually address the OP and explain why you like EHism despite the lack of proof. You're allowed to believe in unproven/unprovable things, it's ok.
"As usual... it depends."
Darshan
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Re: Why Believe in a God when It is Impossible to Prove?

Post by Darshan »

EHism is grateful for this fair criticism. Many sources of evidence exist that human beings have a soul.
Many sources of evidence exist that our souls are much older than our physical bodies.
As a parent, I absolutely know my children have a soul that me and my wife did not create. The creator of a human soul is our God.
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LuckyR
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Re: Why Believe in a God when It is Impossible to Prove?

Post by LuckyR »

Darshan wrote: September 19th, 2021, 8:42 am EHism is grateful for this fair criticism. Many sources of evidence exist that human beings have a soul.
Many sources of evidence exist that our souls are much older than our physical bodies.
As a parent, I absolutely know my children have a soul that me and my wife did not create. The creator of a human soul is our God.
Extraordinary claims require extraordinary evidence. The floor is open...
"As usual... it depends."
PoeticUniverse
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Re: Why Believe in a God when It is Impossible to Prove?

Post by PoeticUniverse »

Darshan wrote: September 19th, 2021, 8:42 am Many sources of evidence exist that human beings have a soul.
‘God’ can’t be shown such that all would believe—
It’s all idle chatter that hopes conceive,
A blah, blah of what can’t even be preached,
Honestly, without a shred to retrieve.

Maybe this, maybe that, of a ‘God’,
On and on, of worn ideas long trod,
Trying to show nature’s not what it does,
Spouting this and that—dust into the sod.

Oh, where is the Loving One, the All-Might?
Why just the power of what natures does?
What benevolence makes for living in fright?
Where’s the Knowing of His Is and ne’er was?

Why the heck do we exist here on Earth?
What mysterious origin gave birth?
What purpose the madness amid the mirth?
Why the heck would a Person be the first?

The invisibility disorder spreads;
“Might be’s” and “maybe’s” clog the fora threads,
Naturally, from meaning’s search in heads,
Ever trying to raise ‘God’ from the dead.
Tegularius
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Re: Why Believe in a God when It is Impossible to Prove?

Post by Tegularius »

Darshan wrote: September 19th, 2021, 8:42 am Many sources of evidence exist that human beings have a soul.
Many sources of evidence exist that our souls are much older than our physical bodies.
Mind naming a few? Evidence, not theory nor the biblical kind.
The earth has a skin and that skin has diseases; one of its diseases is called man ... Nietzsche
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Sy Borg
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Re: Why Believe in a God when It is Impossible to Prove?

Post by Sy Borg »

Darshan wrote: September 19th, 2021, 8:42 amMany sources of evidence exist that our souls are much older than our physical bodies.
The evidence is not solid, but speculative, such as Robert Lanza's biocentrism ideas (which I never quite got, and requires much evidence and predictive experiments to be accepted as a theory).

Still there is hope for those desiring of life after life. (Some of us are not sure if we'd want to go through all that again - at least not without a serious upgrade). The standard model of physics cannot explain most of reality, despite the great advances made in the last century:

- consciousness
- life
- gravity
- dark matter
- dark energy
- why neutrino have mass
- the big bang
- the theoretical singularity at the centre of black holes
- where is the rest of the antimatter?
- why does water expand when it cools?

No doubt there are other questions that the standard model can't explain.

Still, when it comes to assembling bodies of knowledge, it's not helpful to simply adopt a "god of the gaps" model without putting the idea to the test as with everything else. God may be helpful on a personal level, but the objects of one's self-help methods should not be confused with physical reality. For instance, some may find peace and relaxation with a meditation where they imagine being on a perfect beach. That perfect beach only exists in the mind, though. For some, that's enough.
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CalebB
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Re: Why Believe in a God when It is Impossible to Prove?

Post by CalebB »

The existence of an immortal human soul cannot be proof of the God of the Bible because the Bible itself does not support the idea.
According to the Bible God breathed the breath of life into the nostrils of Adam and he became a living soul/being. When the body dies, the spirit (unintelligent energy) returns to God who gave it and the soul dies. The Bible says that Jesus will return to resurrect the people who believed on Him from the dead.

The idea of the immortality of the soul is a doctrine that came from paganism and was brought into the Roman Catholic Church. From there it spread to other denominations and is taught in various Protestant churches. However, it is not a doctrine that is expressed anywhere in the Bible.
For God so loved the world, that He gave His only begotten Son, that whosoever believes in Him should not perish, but have everlasting life. (John 3:16)
This is a crucial text for understanding the nature of life in the Bible. Notice that it states clearly that if you do not believe in Jesus you will perish. Wait, doesn’t everyone perish? Yes, but this text is talking about an eternal death and apparently not everyone receives everlasting life.

Therefore, even if we do have immortal souls that reincarnate, it doesn't prove God. God is a concept that is held by those who have a mindset based on the ego. This is the idea that we are all separate from each other and worship a God who is separate from us. However, for humans, awareness is aware of awareness. I think if God existed it would be more accurate to say that we are all part of God, or that God consists of us.

I talk about this in my book. See it on Amazon:
"Transformative Awakening"


In the book I explain that I used to be a Christian and I give arguments to justify my change of beliefs. Very philosophical.
The purpose of life is to experience all things desired.

Transformative Awakening - https://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B09Q68K86X/
Belindi
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Re: Why Believe in a God when It is Impossible to Prove?

Post by Belindi »

CalebB wrote: January 14th, 2022, 5:50 am The existence of an immortal human soul cannot be proof of the God of the Bible because the Bible itself does not support the idea.
According to the Bible God breathed the breath of life into the nostrils of Adam and he became a living soul/being. When the body dies, the spirit (unintelligent energy) returns to God who gave it and the soul dies. The Bible says that Jesus will return to resurrect the people who believed on Him from the dead.

The idea of the immortality of the soul is a doctrine that came from paganism and was brought into the Roman Catholic Church. From there it spread to other denominations and is taught in various Protestant churches. However, it is not a doctrine that is expressed anywhere in the Bible.
For God so loved the world, that He gave His only begotten Son, that whosoever believes in Him should not perish, but have everlasting life. (John 3:16)
This is a crucial text for understanding the nature of life in the Bible. Notice that it states clearly that if you do not believe in Jesus you will perish. Wait, doesn’t everyone perish? Yes, but this text is talking about an eternal death and apparently not everyone receives everlasting life.

Therefore, even if we do have immortal souls that reincarnate, it doesn't prove God. God is a concept that is held by those who have a mindset based on the ego. This is the idea that we are all separate from each other and worship a God who is separate from us. However, for humans, awareness is aware of awareness. I think if God existed it would be more accurate to say that we are all part of God, or that God consists of us.

I talk about this in my book. See it on Amazon:
"Transformative Awakening"


In the book I explain that I used to be a Christian and I give arguments to justify my change of beliefs. Very philosophical.
Is your version of God a person ?
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CalebB
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Re: Why Believe in a God when It is Impossible to Prove?

Post by CalebB »

No. I take it by person, you mean an individual consciousness and not specifically a physical being.

My version of God could be thought of as the mind of the galaxy, and we are individual instances of that mind. As the hermetic principle states, "The All is Mind; the Universe is Mental."

If God has a personality, we wouldn't comprehend it because he/she/it exists on a greater level.
The purpose of life is to experience all things desired.

Transformative Awakening - https://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B09Q68K86X/
EricPH
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Re: Why Believe in a God when It is Impossible to Prove?

Post by EricPH »

Why Believe in a God when It is Impossible to Prove?
Why believe the universe came into being purely by natural causes; when it is impossible to prove?

Why believe that life started from no life purely by natural causes; when it is impossible to prove?
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LuckyR
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Re: Why Believe in a God when It is Impossible to Prove?

Post by LuckyR »

EricPH wrote: January 14th, 2022, 3:22 pm
Why Believe in a God when It is Impossible to Prove?
Why believe the universe came into being purely by natural causes; when it is impossible to prove?

Why believe that life started from no life purely by natural causes; when it is impossible to prove?
Theists shouldn't feel bad that gods are unprovable (like it's some sort of challenge to prove the unprovable), rather theists should embrace the reality that the metaphysical have certain properties, one of which happens to be unprovability.
"As usual... it depends."
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Re: Why Believe in a God when It is Impossible to Prove?

Post by Belindi »

CalebB wrote: January 14th, 2022, 7:02 am No. I take it by person, you mean an individual consciousness and not specifically a physical being.

My version of God could be thought of as the mind of the galaxy, and we are individual instances of that mind. As the hermetic principle states, "The All is Mind; the Universe is Mental."

If God has a personality, we wouldn't comprehend it because he/she/it exists on a greater level.
Yes, individual consciousness is, as you suggest, what I meant by 'Is God a person?'
I think as you do, that there is absolute mind, although I'd not call it "the mind of the galaxy" which would limit mind to a physical space.
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Re: Why Believe in a God when It is Impossible to Prove?

Post by Belindi »

EricPH wrote: January 14th, 2022, 3:22 pm
Why Believe in a God when It is Impossible to Prove?
Why believe the universe came into being purely by natural causes; when it is impossible to prove?

Why believe that life started from no life purely by natural causes; when it is impossible to prove?
Yes, but is pure love not a natural cause?
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