Why Believe in a God when It is Impossible to Prove?

GaryLouisSmith · Post by **GaryLouisSmith** » July 19th, 2019, 3:33 am

Jklint wrote: ↑July 18th, 2019, 5:20 pm

Our relationship to god who love's us!

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ganymede_(mythology)

Jklint · Post by **Jklint** » July 19th, 2019, 4:16 am

Must confess, no idea what the connection is here!

Felix · Post by **Felix** » July 19th, 2019, 5:09 am

Jklint said: Must confess, no idea what the connection is here!

"Ganymede had been tending sheep, a rustic or humble pursuit characteristic of a hero's boyhood before his privileged status is revealed. Zeus either summoned an eagle or turned into an eagle himself to transport the youth to Mount Olympus."

Doesn't sound like G. gave Zeus the finger though....

Post by **Belindi** » July 19th, 2019, 7:24 am

Fooloso4 wrote:

In fact what may be most surprising to someone who reads Plato’s ascent from the cave with open eyes is the lack of any mention of God. Truth, Beauty, Justice, the Good, but no God or gods. What does that signify?

Does it signify for Plato that reason/order is perpetually/absolutely/eternally/necessarily the case? If true this case would overarch Greta's image of universes , via big bangs, "popping" in and out of existence. If Plato's Sun transcends all else then it also transcends future possibilities, and Plato's Sun also transcends relativity.

In its transcendence of relativity Plato's Sun is contrary to man's freedom and will be used as an image of Authority. Nietzsche is right , Christianity is Platonism for the people.

If the people would be free of authority they have to live without God. Minor gods such as gods of place or gods of natural forces are harmless as they make us less hubristic. As for Mars I suppose there are just wars. Tribal gods are bad as they are nothing but political authority. Ancestors as gods are okay as they represent folk tradition which has feet of clay and is often heathen and pagan. Lares and penates are arguably basic needs. All these lesser gods relate to empirical facts and don't pretend to be otherwise.

Courage · Post by **Courage** » July 19th, 2019, 11:03 am

Spectrum wrote: ↑October 29th, 2017, 9:39 pm To date there is no convincing proof for the existence of a God.
I have demonstrated here 'God is an Impossibility.'

Despite the above, why do theists continue to believe in a God even to the extent of killing non-theists when they perceive threats against theism?

I believe why the majority of humans believe in a God is due to a very forceful existential psychological impulse that is compelling [subliminally] them to believe in a God or some powerful forces with or without agency.

Views?

At any point of humanity, we don't have proof of human history. That's however the way how a truth can convey among humans.

Jklint · Post by **Jklint** » July 19th, 2019, 3:49 pm

Felix wrote: ↑July 19th, 2019, 5:09 am
Jklint said: Must confess, no idea what the connection is here!
"Ganymede had been tending sheep, a rustic or humble pursuit characteristic of a hero's boyhood before his privileged status is revealed. Zeus either summoned an eagle or turned into an eagle himself to transport the youth to Mount Olympus."

Doesn't sound like G. gave Zeus the finger though....

Ok, but they're actually two opposites. Ganymede was a super beautiful Trojan boy that so impressed Zeus who then transformed himself into an eagle conveying Ganymede to Olympus as cupbearer to the the gods. This was supposedly after Hebe resigned the post after a fall or in another variation married Hercules.

The posted depiction is called the last great act of defiance serving as metaphorical negation of "God's love" and all that kind of BS. The only thing left to do for any brave mouse or mortal about to be blasted by fate is to raise the middle finger in a FU salute.

Sculptor1 · Post by **Sculptor1** » July 19th, 2019, 3:53 pm

Jklint wrote: ↑July 19th, 2019, 3:49 pm
Felix wrote: ↑July 19th, 2019, 5:09 am

"Ganymede had been tending sheep, a rustic or humble pursuit characteristic of a hero's boyhood before his privileged status is revealed. Zeus either summoned an eagle or turned into an eagle himself to transport the youth to Mount Olympus."

Doesn't sound like G. gave Zeus the finger though....
Ok, but they're actually two opposites. Ganymede was a super beautiful Trojan boy that so impressed Zeus who then transformed himself into an eagle conveying Ganymede to Olympus as cupbearer to the the gods. This was supposedly after Hebe resigned the post after a fall or in another variation married Hercules.

The posted depiction is called the last great act of defiance serving as metaphorical negation of "God's love" and all that kind of BS. The only thing left to do for any brave mouse or mortal about to be blasted by fate is to raise the middle finger in a FU salute.

If Job had done that Satan would have win the bet and Job would have been saved from further calumnies.

Jklint · Post by **Jklint** » July 19th, 2019, 4:03 pm

Sculptor1 wrote: ↑July 19th, 2019, 3:53 pm
Jklint wrote: ↑July 19th, 2019, 3:49 pm

Ok, but they're actually two opposites. Ganymede was a super beautiful Trojan boy that so impressed Zeus who then transformed himself into an eagle conveying Ganymede to Olympus as cupbearer to the the gods. This was supposedly after Hebe resigned the post after a fall or in another variation married Hercules.

The posted depiction is called the last great act of defiance serving as metaphorical negation of "God's love" and all that kind of BS. The only thing left to do for any brave mouse or mortal about to be blasted by fate is to raise the middle finger in a FU salute.
If Job had done that Satan would have win the bet and Job would have been saved from further calumnies.

Poor Job! He never realized who his real friends were.Three thousand years later and we still have the same problem!

GaryLouisSmith · Post by **GaryLouisSmith** » July 19th, 2019, 6:57 pm

Jklint wrote: ↑July 19th, 2019, 4:03 pm
Sculptor1 wrote: ↑July 19th, 2019, 3:53 pm

If Job had done that Satan would have win the bet and Job would have been saved from further calumnies.
Poor Job! He never realized who his real friends were.Three thousand years later and we still have the same problem!

I'm amazed how much homophobia remains unspoken in this discussion about Ganymede.

Apoorve84 · Post by **Apoorve84** » July 20th, 2019, 4:41 am

Belief give you a sense of direction and some stability in decision making. When you believe in god, you try to follow path provided by him/her/other. It lead you to be disciplined. We all need to believe on some unproven things to make our knowledge streamlined. I dont believe in god, as I set rules for my life myself, but I dont deny his/her/other existence. He/she/other might be there, looking over all of us or may be he/she/other was created by fanatics to keep people on the line.

Post by **Belindi** » July 20th, 2019, 4:53 am

Apoorve84 wrote: ↑July 20th, 2019, 4:41 am Belief give you a sense of direction and some stability in decision making. When you believe in god, you try to follow path provided by him/her/other. It lead you to be disciplined. We all need to believe on some unproven things to make our knowledge streamlined. I dont believe in god, as I set rules for my life myself, but I dont deny his/her/other existence. He/she/other might be there, looking over all of us or may be he/she/other was created by fanatics to keep people on the line.

"We all need to believe--------to make our knowledge streamlined" is another way to express "for social control". In this I agree. I also agree it leads you to be disciplned.

However I ask you to what extent is it good that individuals are disciplined or "streamlined" ?

Which of your two scenarios is the more probable: 1.

but I dont deny his/her/other existence. He/she/other might be there, looking over all of us

2.

or may be he/she/other was created by fanatics to keep people on the line.

Apoorve84 · Post by **Apoorve84** » July 20th, 2019, 5:17 am

Person is disciplined both by internal (belief in god/morality/ethics/self imposed rules) or external sources (law). Person accept that discipline because he/she believe it to be for his/her benefit. The extent to which being discipline is good is also determine by individual as per his/her consciousness. There is no fixed universal criteria can be set. If its not for god, laws or force or manipulation will take its place. In democratic/secular society, people are living under self imposed discipline emerged out of laws and those who violate that, are punished. In theocratic society, religion is the basis of discipline.

Sculptor1 · Post by **Sculptor1** » July 20th, 2019, 8:34 am

Jklint wrote: ↑July 19th, 2019, 4:03 pm
Sculptor1 wrote: ↑July 19th, 2019, 3:53 pm

If Job had done that Satan would have win the bet and Job would have been saved from further calumnies.
Poor Job! He never realized who his real friends were.Three thousand years later and we still have the same problem!

Yeah. God was a real arsehole

Post by **Belindi** » July 20th, 2019, 8:53 am

Apoorve84 wrote: ↑July 20th, 2019, 5:17 am Person is disciplined both by internal (belief in god/morality/ethics/self imposed rules) or external sources (law). Person accept that discipline because he/she believe it to be for his/her benefit. The extent to which being discipline is good is also determine by individual as per his/her consciousness. There is no fixed universal criteria can be set. If its not for god, laws or force or manipulation will take its place. In democratic/secular society, people are living under self imposed discipline emerged out of laws and those who violate that, are punished. In theocratic society, religion is the basis of discipline.

I agree. However how much authority should a political or religious regime exert over individuals?

Apoorve84 · Post by **Apoorve84** » July 20th, 2019, 5:45 pm

It depends on consciousness of the society. Ideally it should be minimal if all people are self disciplined based on their own self made rules and morality. But its not the case, so external authority is required.