The End of Atheism

Discuss philosophical questions regarding theism (and atheism), and discuss religion as it relates to philosophy. This includes any philosophical discussions that happen to be about god, gods, or a 'higher power' or the belief of them. This also generally includes philosophical topics about organized or ritualistic mysticism or about organized, common or ritualistic beliefs in the existence of supernatural phenomenon.
Karpel Tunnel
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Re: The End of Atheism

Post by Karpel Tunnel » May 31st, 2018, 5:24 am

ThomasHobbes wrote:
May 31st, 2018, 3:21 am
Karpel Tunnel wrote:
May 30th, 2018, 8:33 pm

Then there are an incredible number confused atheists. Just google 'atheist club' 'atheist organisation' 'atheist social groups' or check out meetup for atheist social meetups.
I know that. Some people just want to avoid theists. It's a waste of time looking for social interaction or going on a date only to find out that the person you have been talking to, buying drinks etc. is a god botherer.
This does not amount to a "religion"
I was responding to 'they would have nothing to talk about.' I agree, atheism is not a religion. Often, however atheists share epistemologies, ontologies and have similar opinions about a wide range of phenomena. It is often presented as if atheists mere share a lack of belief, and while technically possible, in reality it is not true.

Eduk
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Re: The End of Atheism

Post by Eduk » May 31st, 2018, 10:31 am

Yes I agree TH an atheist group makes no sense. Not being something leaves too many options open (ie it leaves all options bar one).
Calling atheism a religion is just something some people do to annoy atheists, I don't take that seriously.
Unknown means unknown.

Eduk
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Re: The End of Atheism

Post by Eduk » May 31st, 2018, 1:17 pm

Karpel in my experience atheists share no more opinions than do Christians.
Although if you are talking about Americans who self identify as atheists then you can start to make some generalities. But only generalities.
By the way. Why do you want atheists to share opinions?
Unknown means unknown.

Dark Matter
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Re: The End of Atheism

Post by Dark Matter » May 31st, 2018, 2:21 pm

Greta wrote:
May 31st, 2018, 3:03 am
Nearly as funny as content-free swipes with all the intellectual depth one would expect from Twitter. Well, almost.
I'm sorry. I thought I was free to voice an opinion. Your liking or disliking is irrelevant.

The last sentence of the OP reads, "So the argument about the existence of a divine superintelligence is over. Let's move on to more important issues: peace, justice, rational law and the freedom of the individual." There are so many hidden assumptions in there that it would take an entire book to cover. What do you want me to do? Quote extensively from The Last Superstition? I can do that, ya know, but then you'd complain that I don't have any any original thoughts.

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ThomasHobbes
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Re: The End of Atheism

Post by ThomasHobbes » May 31st, 2018, 5:56 pm

Eduk wrote:
May 31st, 2018, 10:31 am
Yes I agree TH an atheist group makes no sense. Not being something leaves too many options open (ie it leaves all options bar one).
Calling atheism a religion is just something some people do to annoy atheists, I don't take that seriously.
Exactly!

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ThomasHobbes
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Re: The End of Atheism

Post by ThomasHobbes » May 31st, 2018, 5:59 pm

Dark Matter wrote:
May 31st, 2018, 2:21 pm
Greta wrote:
May 31st, 2018, 3:03 am
Nearly as funny as content-free swipes with all the intellectual depth one would expect from Twitter. Well, almost.
I'm sorry. I thought I was free to voice an opinion. Your liking or disliking is irrelevant.

The last sentence of the OP reads, "So the argument about the existence of a divine superintelligence is over. Let's move on to more important issues: peace, justice, rational law and the freedom of the individual." There are so many hidden assumptions in there that it would take an entire book to cover. What do you want me to do? Quote extensively from The Last Superstition? I can do that, ya know, but then you'd complain that I don't have any any original thoughts.
Sadly the argument is not decided, And when Israel guns down 60 unarmed protestors, and ISIS beheads infidels what lies behind that is the notion of God- the same one paradoxically.

Eduk
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Re: The End of Atheism

Post by Eduk » May 31st, 2018, 6:08 pm

Are you certain TH? Does money, power and emotion not play a role?
Unknown means unknown.

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ThomasHobbes
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Re: The End of Atheism

Post by ThomasHobbes » May 31st, 2018, 7:27 pm

Eduk wrote:
May 31st, 2018, 6:08 pm
Are you certain TH? Does money, power and emotion not play a role?
Religion is all about money, power and emotion. So these are not exclusive factors to the problem.

Eduk
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Re: The End of Atheism

Post by Eduk » June 1st, 2018, 2:15 am

Only religion? Does politics not serve equally well? Where does religion end and politics begin?
For me religion has an undeserved special status. I see it as no different than any other unreasonable belief. If you removed religion from the world tomorrow by magic there would be barely any change, in my opinion.
Unknown means unknown.

Karpel Tunnel
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Re: The End of Atheism

Post by Karpel Tunnel » June 1st, 2018, 4:20 am

Eduk wrote:
June 1st, 2018, 2:15 am
Only religion? Does politics not serve equally well? Where does religion end and politics begin?
For me religion has an undeserved special status. I see it as no different than any other unreasonable belief. If you removed religion from the world tomorrow by magic there would be barely any change, in my opinion.
Often they are the rationalisations for actions that would have been taken, around resources, say, in any case. They justify the demonization - in those tworst cases - so that desired actions can be taken.

I would extend politics to include economic preferences. This may be considere obvious, but it's an area of politics often gets couched as science.

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LuckyR
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Re: The End of Atheism

Post by LuckyR » June 1st, 2018, 4:08 pm

Karpel Tunnel wrote:
June 1st, 2018, 4:20 am
Eduk wrote:
June 1st, 2018, 2:15 am
Only religion? Does politics not serve equally well? Where does religion end and politics begin?
For me religion has an undeserved special status. I see it as no different than any other unreasonable belief. If you removed religion from the world tomorrow by magic there would be barely any change, in my opinion.
Often they are the rationalisations for actions that would have been taken, around resources, say, in any case. They justify the demonization - in those tworst cases - so that desired actions can be taken.

I would extend politics to include economic preferences. This may be considere obvious, but it's an area of politics often gets couched as science.
While true, it has been shown that those who use rationalizations are essentially equally comfortable using type X (religion) vs type Y (a secular one)
"As usual... it depends."

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Greta
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Re: The End of Atheism

Post by Greta » June 7th, 2018, 3:37 am

Dark Matter wrote:
May 31st, 2018, 2:21 pm
Greta wrote:
May 31st, 2018, 3:03 am
Nearly as funny as content-free swipes with all the intellectual depth one would expect from Twitter. Well, almost.
I'm sorry. I thought I was free to voice an opinion. Your liking or disliking is irrelevant.

The last sentence of the OP reads, "So the argument about the existence of a divine superintelligence is over. Let's move on to more important issues: peace, justice, rational law and the freedom of the individual." There are so many hidden assumptions in there that it would take an entire book to cover. What do you want me to do? Quote extensively from The Last Superstition? I can do that, ya know, but then you'd complain that I don't have any any original thoughts.
All you have to do is make an attempt. Your Twitter style response came across as typical of those lacking any cogent argument and relying on "snappy" rhetoric. It would be illogical to assume that the iceberg tip presented is attached to a large body of ice; it might just be a tip floating along.

I've never suggested before that you were unoriginal. Rather, you seem rather bizarre and alien as compared with most people I know and thus apparently "original" :mrgreen:. So, if you have quotes that make your point and are genuinely relevant, go forth and quote. I promise not to call you unoriginal (not that I ever have done).

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ThomasHobbes
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Re: The End of Atheism

Post by ThomasHobbes » June 7th, 2018, 4:16 pm

Eduk wrote:
June 1st, 2018, 2:15 am
Only religion? Does politics not serve equally well? Where does religion end and politics begin?
For me religion has an undeserved special status. I see it as no different than any other unreasonable belief. If you removed religion from the world tomorrow by magic there would be barely any change, in my opinion.
Magic? Urumph!
What form would your removal take? You'd have to change the way people think.

All churches, including the Vatican, and Meccah disappear, and you think this would make no difference?
If the human psyche was changed to remove religion you'd loose far more than you think. National identity, sports fandom, astrology, and many other irrational systems of thought would go too. 90% of diet fads, all alternative medicine and much of the standard remedies - from vitamin pills to flu "cures" too.

Eduk
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Re: The End of Atheism

Post by Eduk » June 7th, 2018, 6:26 pm

TH what is the point in arguing with yourself?
Unknown means unknown.

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