The Physical Presence of the God is the Earth

Discuss philosophical questions regarding theism (and atheism), and discuss religion as it relates to philosophy. This includes any philosophical discussions that happen to be about god, gods, or a 'higher power' or the belief of them. This also generally includes philosophical topics about organized or ritualistic mysticism or about organized, common or ritualistic beliefs in the existence of supernatural phenomenon.
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Sculptor1
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Re: The Physical Presence of the God is the Earth

Post by Sculptor1 »

baker wrote: December 8th, 2020, 9:48 am
Sculptor1 wrote: December 7th, 2020, 12:52 pmI imagine "To distinguish oneself from the atheists" was flippant?
Not at all.
The theist has at his disposal a concept that the atheist does not. It's a concept with many functions, from those that help one feel good about life, to those that justify going to war, and so on.
As for the "concept" of god being powerful - I think not, at least not in the context we are currently talking about (another reason I missed the "distinguish" bit), since the pantheic assertion is a powerless attempt to preserve a concept of god which is long demonstrated as absurd.
Of course the concept of "God" can be powerful, and it often is. If people have sleepless nights over it (and they do), if they go to wars over it (and they do), if they can hold eachother in check with the help of it (and they do), then it's powerful.
The claim of the thread is about actuality, not concept.
So your ideas are not relevant here.
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Re: The Physical Presence of the God is the Earth

Post by baker »

Sculptor1 wrote: December 8th, 2020, 10:48 amThe claim of the thread is about actuality, not concept.
So your ideas are not relevant here.
Then your ideas are not relevant here either, since you do not believe God exists (and so for you, God can only be a concept).
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Re: The Physical Presence of the God is the Earth

Post by Sculptor1 »

baker wrote: December 8th, 2020, 11:36 am
Sculptor1 wrote: December 8th, 2020, 10:48 amThe claim of the thread is about actuality, not concept.
So your ideas are not relevant here.
Then your ideas are not relevant here either, since you do not believe God exists (and so for you, God can only be a concept).
Rubbish.
When a claim about god is made, it is prefecly relevant to argue against it.
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Re: The Physical Presence of the God is the Earth

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baker wrote: December 8th, 2020, 9:52 am
Belindi wrote: December 8th, 2020, 5:42 am Obsessed as having complete faith that there be ontic order. Ontic order is order that persists after there is no consciousness to perceive it or conceive of it.

Ontic order is the basic fact about God.
What use is it to conceive of God that way?
What we all do is try to find patterns so that we can predict. Everyday life would be impossible if we did not all have a working faith that reason would produce results. Games of chance are fun but should be for entertainment only.

It's better to conceive of God as ontic order than to conceive of God as a giant invisible supernatural Person. To conceive of God as a supernatural Person opens Pandora's box containing many varieties of giant supernatural Persons, and then people form cliques about which which variety of faith is the correct one.
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Re: The Physical Presence of the God is the Earth

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Greta wrote: December 7th, 2020, 3:33 pm
SimonP wrote: December 7th, 2020, 5:37 am

Except that's what you claimed:
No problem there. Trilobites and cyanobacteria have also acted as agents of destruction (and subsequent renewal). They didn't need agency either.
How did tribolites act as agents of destruction and subsequent renewal?
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Re: The Physical Presence of the God is the Earth

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SimonP wrote: December 10th, 2020, 10:11 am
Greta wrote: December 7th, 2020, 3:33 pm
No problem there. Trilobites and cyanobacteria have also acted as agents of destruction (and subsequent renewal). They didn't need agency either.
How did tribolites act as agents of destruction and subsequent renewal?
Half a billion years ago, trilobites dominated the oceans. Any such domination in the natural world works to destroy and renew.

But the focus should be on cyanobacteria - they are the analogous species top humans in terms of terraforming Earth.
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Re: The Physical Presence of the God is the Earth

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Here, I am not trying to overthrow science, or the scientific discoveries of our universe. I just point out a blind spot: we all missed a supreme being who manipulated our world by her natural gifted power. Which nothing supernatural at all. Her existence is similar to everyone of us. She was born to be. She has a beginning - birth - and will eventually die with all of us. All supernatural things are coherent with this subject. He or she is trying to manipulate our world by her natural gifted power including "omniscience". Which played an important part in controlling all of us, creating miracles and conspiracies on the Earth. I wonder if psychology is something created out of it. By her manipulations in the experiments, she created an illusion that all religions come from the imaginations and mental status of the humankind.

This natural being is the Conscious Earth, who coexists with all of us. The true and only one ruler in our world -- the Kingdom of the Earth.
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Re: The Physical Presence of the God is the Earth

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In fact, the God is a dictator if he or she is a supreme being with violating any natural rules.
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Re: The Physical Presence of the God is the Earth

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kk23wong wrote: December 11th, 2020, 2:19 am In fact, the God is a dictator if he or she is a supreme being with violating any natural rules.
*without*
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Re: The Physical Presence of the God is the Earth

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kk23wong wrote: December 11th, 2020, 2:18 amI just point out a blind spot: we all missed a supreme being who manipulated our world by her natural gifted power.
As far as I can tell, the supreme beings in our lives are the Earth, the Sun and Saggitarius A* - all of which we our our existence and continuing lives.

I find the Earth and Sun are eminently worshippable, so to speak. The Earth is an utterly extraordinary thing. It is molten hot and rocky on the inside, wispy and ethereal on the outside between those layers it is wet and sentient. As for stars, what could be more godlike, aside from black holes? These concentrations of energy in the void (ie. starts) are of a scale that is utterly beyond our ken, yet they are essential to our existence.

Do we need to imagine a spirit outside of these incredible entities? And you'd better not get me started on biology :)
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Re: The Physical Presence of the God is the Earth

Post by kk23wong »

Greta wrote: December 11th, 2020, 3:46 am
kk23wong wrote: December 11th, 2020, 2:18 amI just point out a blind spot: we all missed a supreme being who manipulated our world by her natural gifted power.
As far as I can tell, the supreme beings in our lives are the Earth, the Sun and Saggitarius A* - all of which we our our existence and continuing lives.

I find the Earth and Sun are eminently worshippable, so to speak. The Earth is an utterly extraordinary thing. It is molten hot and rocky on the inside, wispy and ethereal on the outside between those layers it is wet and sentient. As for stars, what could be more godlike, aside from black holes? These concentrations of energy in the void (ie. starts) are of a scale that is utterly beyond our ken, yet they are essential to our existence.

Do we need to imagine a spirit outside of these incredible entities? And you'd better not get me started on biology :)
Truth is limited to things you know. I don't know much, so my truth are limited to my own visions. And the Conscious Earth are seemingly closest to the truth I could think of. The God is omniscient and take instant control over all of us. Therefore, it make sense it limited to the size of the are he / she controlled. The planet Earth is a suitable size for her territories if she has instant control of the whole thing. Otherwise, the flow of information would be too large.

Unfortunately, I tried to approach the truth by comparing the structure of the cell and the Earth. In your words, "biology" I suppose. People say that the cell are not likely to present in this way, but I think the structures really do similar to the one of the planet Earth.

Image

If this hypothesis really work, it would become the key missing puzzle of all academic subjects. However, it is not going to work without the condemn of modern psychology. Which seems hopeless by observing the current trending of our world. The God finally become permanently invisible and the truth will be buried. The God get what she attempted, but it was literally a tragedy that he / she denied her natural roles and true physical presence.
Looking for the Truth Teller in this website https://linktr.ee/kk23wong
A Teller is the Teller in the Holy Bible if you are seeking.

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Re: The Physical Presence of the God is the Earth

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The denial of the physical presence of the God as the planet Earth is literally a tragedy for all living beings on this planet.

True, but sad.
Looking for the Truth Teller in this website https://linktr.ee/kk23wong
A Teller is the Teller in the Holy Bible if you are seeking.

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Re: The Physical Presence of the God is the Earth

Post by Belindi »

Why compare Earth to a cell and not compare it to a tissue, or an organ, or an animal, the Universe?

Pragmatically, if we all worshipped Earth, our home, we would all take responsibility for our agency in destroying Earth's biosphere, and aim to take care of Her.
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Re: The Physical Presence of the God is the Earth

Post by Sy Borg »

kk23wong wrote: December 11th, 2020, 4:48 am
Greta wrote: December 11th, 2020, 3:46 am

As far as I can tell, the supreme beings in our lives are the Earth, the Sun and Saggitarius A* - all of which we our our existence and continuing lives.

I find the Earth and Sun are eminently worshippable, so to speak. The Earth is an utterly extraordinary thing. It is molten hot and rocky on the inside, wispy and ethereal on the outside between those layers it is wet and sentient. As for stars, what could be more godlike, aside from black holes? These concentrations of energy in the void (ie. starts) are of a scale that is utterly beyond our ken, yet they are essential to our existence.

Do we need to imagine a spirit outside of these incredible entities? And you'd better not get me started on biology :)
Truth is limited to things you know. I don't know much, so my truth are limited to my own visions. And the Conscious Earth are seemingly closest to the truth I could think of. The God is omniscient and take instant control over all of us. Therefore, it make sense it limited to the size of the are he / she controlled. The planet Earth is a suitable size for her territories if she has instant control of the whole thing. Otherwise, the flow of information would be too large.
The Earth certainly does control us. There's so much where we have either no choice (breathing and hydration), little choice (eating) or limited choices (everything else). And when another person, an animal or a germ limits your choices, that's the Earth too. Many like to think that we are separate from the Earth rather than part of it, but I think we ar e so much a part of it that human consciousness en masse is akin to the Earth's superego.

None of this view is much liked by science because 1. Such an observation (arguably) has no scientific implications and 2. Freudian and Jungian categorisations fell out of favour for the behaviourist school.
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Re: The Physical Presence of the God is the Earth

Post by SimonP »

Greta wrote: December 10th, 2020, 4:18 pm
SimonP wrote: December 10th, 2020, 10:11 am

How did tribolites act as agents of destruction and subsequent renewal?
Half a billion years ago, trilobites dominated the oceans. Any such domination in the natural world works to destroy and renew.

But the focus should be on cyanobacteria - they are the analogous species top humans in terms of terraforming Earth.
You are rather out of date, the idea that tribolites dominated the cambrian oceans was based simply on their abundant presence in the fossil record which favoured them due to their shells. It is now widely accepted that they played only a minor role among lots of other anthropod groups which had bodies much less likely to be fossilised.

However you have a bigger problem here and that is that you conflate the taxanomic ranks all the way from phylum to species, as species. The tribolites are not a species but a group under the phylum arthropoda and cyanobacteria are a phylum. To give you an idea of what a phylum is we, homo sapians are in the same phylum as a sea pineapple which most people would consider resembles a human even less than a tribolite!

Getting back to agency, and your original claim:
We think we are outside of "the system" when we appear to simply be the geobiosphere's current major agent of change. Other species have fulfilled that role in the past.
You now make the point that tribolites didn't need agency to be agents of destruction and renewal which essentially dismisses human agency, turning full circle. I have to ask you if you seriously think there is no essential difference between human beings considering sweeping changes in their way of living to combat climate change brought on by their recent past behaviour, mostly motorism, and whatever misconceptions you may harbour about changes to the "geosphere" brought on by tribolites?

Going a little further back in the topic you make another science populist claim that the earth is smoother than a billiard ball, it's actually about as smooth as a billiard ball with a sandpaper surface with a grit of 320 used to roughen up the surface between coats of paint to improve adhesion. Billiard balls that rough would be a game changer making it possible for just about anyone to shoot complete circles!

The focus needs to be on critical thinking and confirmation bias.
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