The March Philosophy Book of the Month is Final Notice by Van Fleisher. Discuss Final Notice now.

The April Philosophy Book of the Month is The Unbound Soul by Richard L. Haight

Who Is God?

Discuss philosophical questions regarding theism (and atheism), and discuss religion as it relates to philosophy. This includes any philosophical discussions that happen to be about god, gods, or a 'higher power' or the belief of them. This also generally includes philosophical topics about organized or ritualistic mysticism or about organized, common or ritualistic beliefs in the existence of supernatural phenomenon.
User avatar
ThomasHobbes
Posts: 1122
Joined: May 5th, 2018, 5:53 pm

Re: Who Is God?

Post by ThomasHobbes » July 26th, 2018, 6:18 am

SimpleGuy wrote:
July 26th, 2018, 6:12 am
Why don't you realize that nietzsche is no moralist but even wrote works like the antichrist by him? If you don't get this just look at this link.

https://infidels.org/library/modern/tra ... hrist.html
Nietzsche was, of course, a moralist - it's just the sort of morality which leads to inequality, poverty and suffering.

User avatar
SimpleGuy
Posts: 338
Joined: September 11th, 2017, 12:28 pm

Re: Who Is God?

Post by SimpleGuy » July 26th, 2018, 6:32 am

Were here assembled for the interpretation of great philosopher once living . He said in his antichrist:

Es ist ein schmerzliches, ein schauerliches Schauspiel, das mir aufgegangen
ist: ich zog den Vorhang weg von der
Verdorbenheit des Menschen. Dies Wort, in meinem Munde, ist wenigstens gegen
einen Verdacht geschützt: daß es
eine moralische Anklage des Menschen enthält. Es ist — ich möchte es nochmals unterstreichen — moralinfrei
gemeint: und dies bis zu dem Grade, daß jene Verdorbenheit
gerade dort von mir am stärksten empfunden wird, wo
man bisher am bewußtesten zur »Tugend«, zur »Göttlichkeit« aspirierte. Ich verstehe Verdorbenheit, man errät es
bereits, im Sinne von décadence: meine Behauptung ist, daß alle Werte, in denen jetzt die Menschheit ihre oberste
Wünschbarkeit zusammenfaßt, décadence-Werte sind.
Ich nenne ein Tier, eine Gattung, ein Individuum verdorben, wenn es seine Instinkte verliert, wenn es wählt, wenn es
vorzieht, was ihm nachteilig ist. Eine Geschichte der »höheren Gefühle«,der »Ideale der Menschheit« — und es ist
möglich, daß ich sie erzählen muß — wäre beinahe auch die Erklärung dafür, weshalb der Mensch so verdorben ist.
Das Leben selbst gilt mir als Instinkt für Wachstum, für Dauer, für Häufung von Kräften, für Macht:
wo der Wille zur Macht fehlt, gibt es Niedergang. Meine Behauptung ist, daß allen obersten Werten der Menschheit
dieser Wille fehlt — daß Niedergangs-Werte, nihilistische Werte unter den heiligsten Namen die Herrschaft führen.


So disagreeing with Fooloso4, he said in his antichrist :

That the nihilistic-values , shall have the the most holysome name , which shall have the reign. (Last sentence in german).
It's about interpretation and mispretation of this great philospher.

Fooloso4
Moderator
Posts: 3601
Joined: February 28th, 2014, 4:50 pm

Re: Who Is God?

Post by Fooloso4 » July 26th, 2018, 9:23 am

SimpleGuy:
I and Nietzsche were'nt in need of cannibal nazi gods like yours.
Cannibal nazi gods ike mine? You have me mixed up with someone else, real or imagined. I have said nothing about gods except in quoting Nietzsche.
He was sick of your adorno interpretation of nietzsche as well as i am , you simple seem to neglect the fact where he came from and what he told us.
My adorno interpretation? Again, you have me mixed up with someone else, real or imagined.
Why don't you cite the bible , to proof that nietzsche was wrong and nietzsche was allowed to interpretate this in a different way?
I don’t think Nietzsche was wrong. Do you mean you are allowed to interpret Nietzsche in a different way? Of course you are, but if you are going to convince anyone that that interpretation is plausible you must be able to defend it.
Becaus you don't cite him.
Don’t cite who? Nietzsche? Again, you have me mixed up with someone else, real or imagined. I have quoted him several times (in English). When you see something like (Will to Power, Nihilism, 27) and following that simply (28) or (Beyond Good and Evil, aphorism 211) followed by (212) those are citations from Nietzsche.
Why don't you realize that nietzsche is no moralist but even wrote works like the antichrist by him? If you don't get this just look at this link.
Of course I realize Nietzsche was no moralist. I have said nothing to the contrary. What do you think it means when I quote him saying “the sovereignty of becoming, the fluidity of all concepts, the lack of any cardinal difference between man and animal”? It does not mean, however, that he rejects the distinction between good and bad:
What is good? Everything that heightens the feeling of power in man, the will to power, power itself.

What is bad? Everything that is born of weakness. ((The Anti-Christ, 2)
It's about interpretation and misinterpretation of this great philospher.
Indeed it is! I have done nothing more than provide textual evidence to support my claim that you have misinterpreted him, and instead of addressing those passages you resort to making empty accusations about gods like mine.

In case none of this is simple enough for you guy, I am an atheist. Having gotten that out of the way, maybe you can go back and read what I actually said and what Nietzsche said in the quoted material.

User avatar
SimpleGuy
Posts: 338
Joined: September 11th, 2017, 12:28 pm

Re: Who Is God?

Post by SimpleGuy » July 26th, 2018, 10:40 am

ThomasHobbes wrote:
July 26th, 2018, 6:18 am
SimpleGuy wrote:
July 26th, 2018, 6:12 am
Why don't you realize that nietzsche is no moralist but even wrote works like the antichrist by him? If you don't get this just look at this link.

https://infidels.org/library/modern/tra ... hrist.html
Nietzsche was, of course, a moralist - it's just the sort of morality which leads to inequality, poverty and suffering.
Well if you would read the genealogy of moral you will find the following passage:

Gerade umgekehrt also wie bei dem Vornehmen, der den Grundbegriff »gut« voraus und spontan, nämlich von sich aus konzipiert und von da aus erst eine Vorstellung von »schlecht« sich schafft! Dies »schlecht« vornehmen Ursprungs und jenes »böse« aus dem Braukessel des ungesättigten Hasses – das erste eine Nachschöpfung, ein Nebenher, eine Komplementärfarbe, das zweite dagegen das Original, der Anfang, die eigentliche Tat in der Konzeption einer Sklaven-Moral – wie verschieden stehn die beiden scheinbar demselben Begriff »gut« entgegengestellten Worte »schlecht« und »böse« da! Aber es ist nicht derselbe Begriff »gut«: vielmehr frage man sich doch, wer eigentlich »böse« ist, im Sinne der Moral des Ressentiment.
--- At the end he asks who is in the real sense a good acting person and who is an evil acting person. He considers this as the primeval moral ressentiment to divide into the two classes.

So nietzsche even denies the presence of good and evil and with it , no real moral aspect is possible.

User avatar
SimpleGuy
Posts: 338
Joined: September 11th, 2017, 12:28 pm

Re: Who Is God?

Post by SimpleGuy » July 26th, 2018, 10:54 am

The question itself is an impertinence to molest other poeple with the problems of others. Once one asks who is god? Not me is the answer. Or at least everybody just for themselves. The question itself depicts the falsehood of moral contained in this reasoning.

User avatar
SimpleGuy
Posts: 338
Joined: September 11th, 2017, 12:28 pm

Re: Who Is God?

Post by SimpleGuy » July 26th, 2018, 10:57 am

By the way if anybody does know the name of God please send me his or her address. I want to thank him quite tough in privacy.

Belindi
Moderator
Posts: 1934
Joined: September 11th, 2016, 2:11 pm

Re: Who Is God?

Post by Belindi » July 26th, 2018, 11:56 am

God is the personal name of the Christian monogod.

If you want to thank Him or petition Him you pray. There are plenty of traditional prayers and methods of praying or you can invent your own.

User avatar
ThomasHobbes
Posts: 1122
Joined: May 5th, 2018, 5:53 pm

Re: Who Is God?

Post by ThomasHobbes » July 26th, 2018, 12:04 pm

SimpleGuy wrote:
July 26th, 2018, 10:40 am
So nietzsche even denies the presence of good and evil and with it , no real moral aspect is possible.
Thanks for agreeing with me by showing how Nietzsche takes a moral position of the ideas of good and evil.

User avatar
SimpleGuy
Posts: 338
Joined: September 11th, 2017, 12:28 pm

Re: Who Is God?

Post by SimpleGuy » July 29th, 2018, 1:16 pm

Well the drug dimethyltryptamine causes for example even for normal people behaviour that they can talk to god. So the problem is, have they been talking to god or not ? For themselves a good deal of those people claim yes , they did !!

Gertie
Posts: 689
Joined: January 7th, 2015, 7:09 am

Re: Who Is God?

Post by Gertie » July 29th, 2018, 5:51 pm

Fooloso
On the contrary, Nietzsche says:

THE REAL PHILOSOPHERS, HOWEVER, ARE COMMANDERS AND LAW-GIVERS; they say: "Thus SHALL it be!" They determine first the Whither and the Why of mankind, and thereby set aside the previous labour of all philosophical workers, and all subjugators of the past - they grasp at the future with a creative hand, and whatever is and was, becomes for them thereby a means, an instrument, and a hammer. Their "knowing" is CREATING, their creating is a law-giving, their will to truth is - WILL TO POWER. - Are there at present such philosophers? Have there ever been such philosophers? MUST there not be such philosophers some day? . (Beyond Good and Evil, aphorism 211)

...

It is always more obvious to me that the philosopher, as a man INDISPENSABLE for the morrow and the day after the morrow, has ever found himself, and HAS BEEN OBLIGED to find himself, in contradiction to the day in which he lives; his enemy has always been the ideal of his day. Hitherto all those extraordinary furtherers of humanity whom one calls philosophers - who rarely regarded themselves as lovers of wisdom, but rather as disagreeable fools and dangerous interrogators - have found their mission, their hard, involuntary, imperative mission (in the end, however, the greatness of their mission), in being the bad conscience of their age. In putting the vivisector's knife to the breast of the very VIRTUES OF THEIR AGE, they have betrayed their own secret; it has been for the sake of a NEW greatness of man, a new untrodden path to his aggrandizement (212).
In the context of his time I can admire N's boldness and Oomphh. And I can see the value of his thoughts in terms of self-empowerment and re-evaluation in a newly godless world.

But I also see him as a product of his own time and own experience, and I think his overall message is limited and potentially dangerous. Individuals shouldn't be slaves to the contemporary culture (religious or otherwise), but our contemporary culture is already obsessed with Me Me Me. Now our problem is looking beyond Me, regaining a sense of Us, the common good. Replacing God with Me is fine in one sense, but it's not the full story. And the Philosopher King is better than some framings, but not some ultimate answer.

User avatar
ThomasHobbes
Posts: 1122
Joined: May 5th, 2018, 5:53 pm

Re: Who Is God?

Post by ThomasHobbes » July 29th, 2018, 6:00 pm

SimpleGuy wrote:
July 29th, 2018, 1:16 pm
Well the drug dimethyltryptamine causes for example even for normal people behaviour that they can talk to god. So the problem is, have they been talking to god or not ? For themselves a good deal of those people claim yes , they did !!
I think you will find that the conversations these druggies have do not paint a consistent picture of god.

Fooloso4
Moderator
Posts: 3601
Joined: February 28th, 2014, 4:50 pm

Re: Who Is God?

Post by Fooloso4 » July 29th, 2018, 6:58 pm

Gertie:
But I also see him as a product of his own time and own experience …
I agree to some extent but if Nietzsche had not lived his own time would not have produced his work. In addition, he is the author of “Untimely Meditations” and to the extent they are untimely they are not a product of his time.
… our contemporary culture is already obsessed with Me Me Me.
Good point, but I do not see this as a criticism of Nietzsche since such narcissism is not what his work is about, although it may seem that way at first glance. Nietzsche frequently remarks about who his intended audience is -future philosophers.
Now our problem is looking beyond Me, regaining a sense of Us …
When he describes the real philosophers as commanders and lawgivers, this is what is at issue. Above all others I think he has in mind Plato. When he calls Christianity "Platonism for the masses" he sets the proper order and rank of commanders and lawgivers.
Replacing God with Me is fine in one sense, but it's not the full story.
But God, according to Nietzsche, is a creation of man. Something he puts above himself. Nietzsche fully approves of the positing of something higher, for this is the means by which man elevates himself, overcomes himself, looks beyond Me. In place of an all-knowing God he looks back to an ancient (untimely) god - Dionysus, a god, he says, who philosophizes. A philosophical god is one who, as the term originally means, desires and pursues wisdom. He is not the author of unchanging, eternal truths, not the being of beings, but the god of becoming.
And the Philosopher King is better than some framings, but not some ultimate answer.
And that is the point. There is no ultimate answer. But this should not be construed to mean that any answer is as good as any other. A timely answer must be an untimely answer in times when current answers have played themselves out, when what had previously led to strength, power, health, and flourishing has now led to weakness and sickness. All of life is self-overcoming.

User avatar
Mlw
Posts: 220
Joined: July 23rd, 2010, 5:03 am
Favorite Philosopher: Augustine of Hippo
Location: Stockholm, Sweden
Contact:

Re: Who Is God?

Post by Mlw » August 3rd, 2018, 10:09 am

God is spirit, and this spirit transcends the temporal realm. God is personal; three persons of one substance. God created the universe through his Son. As the universe became embodied, so the Son became embodied. His name is Jesus Christ.

Jesus said: "I am the Way, and the Truth, and the Life; no one comes to the Father but through Me". It means that there is nothing in life that is more essential, because He is the Life. So, those who look to fulfill their life in any other way are out on a wild goose chase. There is nothing else, really, except many responsibilities. Luckily, these are often seen as rewarding. We like rearing children and doing a good day's work. This is the animal side in us. Animals do their thing, too, all day long. But if you are looking to go beyond the animal side of yourself to find meaning, then there is nothing else than the trinitarian Truth.
I have seen all the things that are done under the sun; all of them are meaningless, a chasing after the wind. (Eccles. 1:14)

User avatar
SimpleGuy
Posts: 338
Joined: September 11th, 2017, 12:28 pm

Re: Who Is God?

Post by SimpleGuy » August 3rd, 2018, 10:54 am

Mlw wrote:
August 3rd, 2018, 10:09 am
I have seen all the things that are done under the sun; all of them are meaningless, a chasing after the wind. (Eccles. 1:14)
Well the problem is that nobody stood behind you and smelled the wind, they would have been at least a point to discuss elsewise.

User avatar
Mlw
Posts: 220
Joined: July 23rd, 2010, 5:03 am
Favorite Philosopher: Augustine of Hippo
Location: Stockholm, Sweden
Contact:

Re: Who Is God?

Post by Mlw » August 3rd, 2018, 11:30 am

SimpleGuy wrote:
August 3rd, 2018, 10:54 am
Mlw wrote:
August 3rd, 2018, 10:09 am

Well the problem is that nobody stood behind you and smelled the wind, they would have been at least a point to discuss elsewise.
This is very curious English. Incomprehensible.

Post Reply