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Buddhists and Buddhism Evil??

Discuss philosophical questions regarding theism (and atheism), and discuss religion as it relates to philosophy. This includes any philosophical discussions that happen to be about god, gods, or a 'higher power' or the belief of them. This also generally includes philosophical topics about organized or ritualistic mysticism or about organized, common or ritualistic beliefs in the existence of supernatural phenomenon.
Spectrum
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Buddhists and Buddhism Evil??

Post by Spectrum » March 17th, 2018, 3:44 am

I often come across 'ignorant' people who blame Buddhists' evils and violence together with Buddhism - the religion itself.
While Islam is inherently evil and violent, Buddhism is not inherent evil.
Dark Matter wrote:
March 15th, 2018, 7:12 pm
Not to burst your bubble, but ...

Why Are We Surprised When Buddhists Are Violent?

Sri Lanka violence mirrors Myanmar unrest: As Buddhist monks stoke communal fire, religion's 'tolerant' image under threat

More can be said, but with your minds made up, what’s the point?
You are a case of the blind following the blind, i.e. the above is based on blatant ignorance and no attempt to understand the essence and ethos of religions, i.e. Buddhism and Islam.

Note the facts,
  • 1. All humans has the potential to commit terrible evils and violence.
    2. A % [20% conservatively] of All humans are born with an active tendency to commit evil - the evil prone.
    3. These percentile of evil prone are triggered by evil laden stimuli from various sources.
What is going on with Islam ever since it first appeared is;
  • a. Islam as in the Quran has TONS of evil laden elements in its 6,236 verses.
    b. The natural evil prone Muslims [pool of 20%] are triggered by these evil elements within Islam to be inspired to commit terrible evils and violence in the name of the religion.
On the other hand, the point with Buddhists [Myanmar, Sri Lanka, USA or anywhere] who commit evils and violence against Muslims is because of point b, i.e. these are the % of unfortunate humans who were born with an active evil tendency. They are reacting to the terrible evils and violence by Muslims on their own naturally born evil impulses and that has nothing to do with the religion of Buddhism itself.
Such evil reaction using violence is wrong and need to be addressed but it has nothing to so with the religion itself.

There are no evil laden elements in the Sutras of Theravada Buddhism for the Buddhists in Myanmar and Sri Langka to justify their violent acts. Therefore we cannot blame Buddhism per se for the violence by Buddhists like we can blame Islam for the violence by SOME evil prone Muslims.

There are violence by Buddhist monks but we don't hear them referring to any verses in the relevant main Sutras, shouting Buddha-u-Akbar or invoking the name of The Buddha.

Admittedly, there are a few lines of verses with evil elements in the Mahayana Sutras which are like needle in the haystacks. But note these verses are not evil laden [loaded to shoot]. Besides, note, Buddhists in Myanmar and Sri Lanka are Theravadians , not Mahayanists.

So it is very stupid [when they don't get the facts right] for anyone to blame Buddhism per-se for violence committed by Buddhist monks in Myanmar and Sri Lanka.
Not-a-theist. Religion is a critical necessity for humanity now, but not the FUTURE.

Dark Matter
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Re: Buddhists and Buddhism Evil??

Post by Dark Matter » March 17th, 2018, 4:01 am

Wow. I musta hit a nerve! :twisted:

Spectrum
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Re: Buddhists and Buddhism Evil??

Post by Spectrum » March 17th, 2018, 4:15 am

Dark Matter wrote:
March 17th, 2018, 4:01 am
Wow. I musta hit a nerve! :twisted:
Yes, your own nerve.

It is a matter of effectiveness and efficiency.
As I say, I've came across such 'stupidity' many times and it is a very common fallacy to conflate Buddhists with Buddhism in such a case. I have explained this fallacy many times in various posts and I am sure you would have read it, but despite that your memory failed you and I have to spent time explaining this critical fact [truth].

The purpose of the above post is for future reference so I don't have to type out the explanation again and again.
Not-a-theist. Religion is a critical necessity for humanity now, but not the FUTURE.

Dark Matter
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Re: Buddhists and Buddhism Evil??

Post by Dark Matter » March 17th, 2018, 1:10 pm

Are you sure Islam is evil? People have been killing people since Cain slew able. It’s what they do. For all your ranting about the evils of Islam, one can just as easily, and more justifiably, argue that Islam is more honest about human nature than your highly vaunted and romanticized Buddhism. Maybe it’s Buddhism that’s evil because it wants to change human nature by making it passive and more accepting of whatever comes its way. :twisted:

Dark Matter
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Re: Buddhists and Buddhism Evil??

Post by Dark Matter » March 17th, 2018, 1:16 pm

I've came across such 'stupidity' many times and it is a very common fallacy to conflate Buddhists with Buddhism.
OMG. When someone says the same thing about Christians and Christianity you have a hissy fit. Consistency is not exactly your forte.

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SimpleGuy
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Re: Buddhists and Buddhism Evil??

Post by SimpleGuy » March 17th, 2018, 3:18 pm

Why should we reject a culture, even praised by richard gere and keanu reeves as well as tom cruise and others for tolerance and intelligence. I think we shouldn't judge about foreign cultures whence they are that moral oriented and still tolerant.

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SimpleGuy
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Re: Buddhists and Buddhism Evil??

Post by SimpleGuy » March 17th, 2018, 3:21 pm

At least the principle beginning of the eightfold way and the four noble truths as well as the kamma shaping forces don't seem that unnormal for a religion oriented on human rights. Just think about the dalai lama has been praised by many human organizations for his personal commitment.

Spectrum
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Re: Buddhists and Buddhism Evil??

Post by Spectrum » March 17th, 2018, 9:23 pm

Dark Matter wrote:
March 17th, 2018, 1:10 pm
Are you sure Islam is evil?

People have been killing people since Cain slew able. It’s what they do. For all your ranting about the evils of Islam, one can just as easily, and more justifiably, argue that Islam is more honest about human nature than your highly vaunted and romanticized Buddhism.
Maybe it’s Buddhism that’s evil because it wants to change human nature by making it passive and more accepting of whatever comes its way. :twisted:
Note I stated this above;
a. Islam as in the Quran has TONS of evil laden elements in its 6,236 verses.
The above is translated into reality with statistics like the below,

Image

where those who commit the above evils and other loads of evil quote or implied reference to verses directly from the Quran.

As for Christianity, the OT is overriden by the NT's pacifist maxim, i.e. love your enemies, neighbors and others.

If you think Buddhism may be 'EVIL' then justify your hypothesis?
Not-a-theist. Religion is a critical necessity for humanity now, but not the FUTURE.

Spectrum
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Re: Buddhists and Buddhism Evil??

Post by Spectrum » March 17th, 2018, 9:29 pm

SimpleGuy wrote:
March 17th, 2018, 3:18 pm
Why should we reject a culture, even praised by richard gere and keanu reeves as well as tom cruise and others for tolerance and intelligence. I think we shouldn't judge about foreign cultures whence they are that moral oriented and still tolerant.
Not sure Tom Cruise of Scientology would say that?

The core principles of any religion is represented by its accepted Constitution, in the case of Christianity is the Bible, Islam - the Quran, Buddhism - the relevant Sutras, and the likes. Thus for one to determine/conclude whether a religion is inherently good or evil, one must refer to its Constitution, not solely on the behaviors of the believers.
Not-a-theist. Religion is a critical necessity for humanity now, but not the FUTURE.

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LuckyR
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Re: Buddhists and Buddhism Evil??

Post by LuckyR » March 21st, 2018, 3:26 am

Does "explaining" evil acts really matter? I mean if individual A commits an evil act and in observer B's opinion it is (or isn't) caused by A's religion (or video games, or rap lyrics, or drug use, or poor upbringing, or whatever) does it matter if B is accurate or full of baloney?
"As usual... it depends."

Spectrum
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Re: Buddhists and Buddhism Evil??

Post by Spectrum » March 22nd, 2018, 12:01 am

LuckyR wrote:
March 21st, 2018, 3:26 am
Does "explaining" evil acts really matter? I mean if individual A commits an evil act and in observer B's opinion it is (or isn't) caused by A's religion (or video games, or rap lyrics, or drug use, or poor upbringing, or whatever) does it matter if B is accurate or full of baloney?
Sure it does matter to understand 'what is an evil act' and its various degrees.

Note violence and various cruel acts are recognized as 'evil' i.e. net-negative to the well being of humanity. This is why violence and various cruel acts are censored, banned or modulated by authorities in various medias, e.g. movies, video games, music, books, etc.

Evil acts are of various degrees from low to high.
Certain low degrees evil acts are subjected to peoples' opinion but it obvious those evil acts of high degrees, e.g. genocides, mass rapes, serial killing with tortures, mass kidnapping, continually killing driven by holy texts, etc. are without a doubt be recognized as evil acts by normal rational people.

Thus, surely it does matter to any ordinary person to want to get rid of such evil acts that are terrorizing them. To do so the root causes of those evil acts must be determined and explained so that preventive actions can be taken.

So "explaining" evil acts really matter.
Not-a-theist. Religion is a critical necessity for humanity now, but not the FUTURE.

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LuckyR
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Re: Buddhists and Buddhism Evil??

Post by LuckyR » March 22nd, 2018, 2:25 am

Spectrum wrote:
March 22nd, 2018, 12:01 am
LuckyR wrote:
March 21st, 2018, 3:26 am
Does "explaining" evil acts really matter? I mean if individual A commits an evil act and in observer B's opinion it is (or isn't) caused by A's religion (or video games, or rap lyrics, or drug use, or poor upbringing, or whatever) does it matter if B is accurate or full of baloney?
Sure it does matter to understand 'what is an evil act' and its various degrees.

Note violence and various cruel acts are recognized as 'evil' i.e. net-negative to the well being of humanity. This is why violence and various cruel acts are censored, banned or modulated by authorities in various medias, e.g. movies, video games, music, books, etc.

Evil acts are of various degrees from low to high.
Certain low degrees evil acts are subjected to peoples' opinion but it obvious those evil acts of high degrees, e.g. genocides, mass rapes, serial killing with tortures, mass kidnapping, continually killing driven by holy texts, etc. are without a doubt be recognized as evil acts by normal rational people.

Thus, surely it does matter to any ordinary person to want to get rid of such evil acts that are terrorizing them. To do so the root causes of those evil acts must be determined and explained so that preventive actions can be taken.

So "explaining" evil acts really matter.
Your post is all over the place.

You don't need to explain what evil is. You don't need to convince anyone that evil is... evil. Or that preventing it would be a good idea.

On the actual topic of preventing it, I agree with you that understanding root causes sounds completely logical as a technique for such prevention, though I suspect there is a general absence of experience to back up this claim. What about minor contributors (as opposed to root causes)? Is there any compelling data to prove that knowledge of them is inferior to knowledge of root causes as pertains to prevention? Like I said, I am not convinced that it matters.
"As usual... it depends."

Spectrum
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Re: Buddhists and Buddhism Evil??

Post by Spectrum » March 22nd, 2018, 4:19 am

LuckyR wrote:
March 22nd, 2018, 2:25 am
Spectrum wrote:
March 22nd, 2018, 12:01 am
Sure it does matter to understand 'what is an evil act' and its various degrees.

Note violence and various cruel acts are recognized as 'evil' i.e. net-negative to the well being of humanity. This is why violence and various cruel acts are censored, banned or modulated by authorities in various medias, e.g. movies, video games, music, books, etc.

Evil acts are of various degrees from low to high.
Certain low degrees evil acts are subjected to peoples' opinion but it obvious those evil acts of high degrees, e.g. genocides, mass rapes, serial killing with tortures, mass kidnapping, continually killing driven by holy texts, etc. are without a doubt be recognized as evil acts by normal rational people.

Thus, surely it does matter to any ordinary person to want to get rid of such evil acts that are terrorizing them. To do so the root causes of those evil acts must be determined and explained so that preventive actions can be taken.

So "explaining" evil acts really matter.
Your post is all over the place.

You don't need to explain what evil is. You don't need to convince anyone that evil is... evil. Or that preventing it would be a good idea.

On the actual topic of preventing it, I agree with you that understanding root causes sounds completely logical as a technique for such prevention, though I suspect there is a general absence of experience to back up this claim. What about minor contributors (as opposed to root causes)? Is there any compelling data to prove that knowledge of them is inferior to knowledge of root causes as pertains to prevention? Like I said, I am not convinced that it matters.
In problem-solving we need to identify ALL the contributing causes and leaving no stones unturned.

Overall, we need to analyze how much each variable contribute to the whole problem. In addition we have to take into consideration whether eliminating a minor cause will incur greater consequences and cause more problems elsewhere.

Generally the root cause is the most critical and efficient.
If one want to get rids of weeds effectively one has to pull out the weeds and its roots and the majority of the problem is resolved.

At present what really matter is this threat;
https://www.thereligionofpeace.com/TROP.jpg
and the full range of other evils and violence from religions.

Re the above evil acts I have traced its root cause to the religion i.e. Islam itself.

Note in the case of the above evil acts of from religious believers I am not recommending getting rid of religion at present - see my signature below. Getting rid of religion at present without effective alternatives to deal with the inherent existential crisis will likely to bring more harm than good. Therefore we have to look into the future when we have alternatives to replace religions - the root cause of religious-based evils.
Not-a-theist. Religion is a critical necessity for humanity now, but not the FUTURE.

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LuckyR
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Re: Buddhists and Buddhism Evil??

Post by LuckyR » March 23rd, 2018, 11:33 am

Spectrum wrote:
March 22nd, 2018, 4:19 am
LuckyR wrote:
March 22nd, 2018, 2:25 am


Your post is all over the place.

You don't need to explain what evil is. You don't need to convince anyone that evil is... evil. Or that preventing it would be a good idea.

On the actual topic of preventing it, I agree with you that understanding root causes sounds completely logical as a technique for such prevention, though I suspect there is a general absence of experience to back up this claim. What about minor contributors (as opposed to root causes)? Is there any compelling data to prove that knowledge of them is inferior to knowledge of root causes as pertains to prevention? Like I said, I am not convinced that it matters.
In problem-solving we need to identify ALL the contributing causes and leaving no stones unturned.

Overall, we need to analyze how much each variable contribute to the whole problem. In addition we have to take into consideration whether eliminating a minor cause will incur greater consequences and cause more problems elsewhere.

Generally the root cause is the most critical and efficient.
If one want to get rids of weeds effectively one has to pull out the weeds and its roots and the majority of the problem is resolved.

At present what really matter is this threat;
https://www.thereligionofpeace.com/TROP.jpg
and the full range of other evils and violence from religions.

Re the above evil acts I have traced its root cause to the religion i.e. Islam itself.

Note in the case of the above evil acts of from religious believers I am not recommending getting rid of religion at present - see my signature below. Getting rid of religion at present without effective alternatives to deal with the inherent existential crisis will likely to bring more harm than good. Therefore we have to look into the future when we have alternatives to replace religions - the root cause of religious-based evils.
Again, what you are saying passes the "sounds logical" test, yet has probably no actual evidence to back it up. Even if I stipulate that your analysis is 100% correct (which is definitely 100% unproven), what practical steps do you propose to bring about this "prevention"? Especially since it IS proven that evil recruiters can and have used anti-Islam rhetoric effectively in their recruitment efforts.
"As usual... it depends."

Spectrum
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Re: Buddhists and Buddhism Evil??

Post by Spectrum » March 24th, 2018, 3:36 am

LuckyR wrote:
March 23rd, 2018, 11:33 am
Spectrum wrote:
March 22nd, 2018, 4:19 am

In problem-solving we need to identify ALL the contributing causes and leaving no stones unturned.

Overall, we need to analyze how much each variable contribute to the whole problem. In addition we have to take into consideration whether eliminating a minor cause will incur greater consequences and cause more problems elsewhere.

Generally the root cause is the most critical and efficient.
If one want to get rids of weeds effectively one has to pull out the weeds and its roots and the majority of the problem is resolved.

At present what really matter is this threat;
https://www.thereligionofpeace.com/TROP.jpg
and the full range of other evils and violence from religions.

Re the above evil acts I have traced its root cause to the religion i.e. Islam itself.

Note in the case of the above evil acts of from religious believers I am not recommending getting rid of religion at present - see my signature below. Getting rid of religion at present without effective alternatives to deal with the inherent existential crisis will likely to bring more harm than good. Therefore we have to look into the future when we have alternatives to replace religions - the root cause of religious-based evils.
Again, what you are saying passes the "sounds logical" test, yet has probably no actual evidence to back it up. Even if I stipulate that your analysis is 100% correct (which is definitely 100% unproven), what practical steps do you propose to bring about this "prevention"? Especially since it IS proven that evil recruiters can and have used anti-Islam rhetoric effectively in their recruitment efforts.
I believe the first strategy to convey the facts [supported by evidences and justifications] to all Muslims that the Quran as core of Islam is inherently evil and will influenced a potential pool of evil prone Muslims [300 millions i.e. appx 20%] to commit terrible evils and violence.

As expected there will be loads of resistance from hardcore Muslims in facing those facts and thus the authorities must be very persistent in getting the facts across to all people.
Re this, the political correct authorities must go.

Another strategy is to explain the psychology of theism, i.e. the fundamental reason of religion is due to psychology - the existential crisis - and not that a God pre-existed and is awaiting humans to believe in God. This will also face resistance.

The above a various relevant strategies which can be taken at present.

However in the longer run what is most critical is humanity must work toward finding alternatives without side effect and are fool proof to replace theistic religions in dealing with the inherent unavoidable existential crisis.

Why I am optimistic with the above is, at present there are already non-theistic religions dealing with the inherent unavoidable existential crisis without the idea of God and holy texts from a God plus there is no evil baggage attached to them.
What we can do is to remove the religious elements from these methods and repackaged them with improved elements to deal with the inherent unavoidable existential crisis.
Not-a-theist. Religion is a critical necessity for humanity now, but not the FUTURE.

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