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What is Your Story?

Discuss philosophical questions regarding theism (and atheism), and discuss religion as it relates to philosophy. This includes any philosophical discussions that happen to be about god, gods, or a 'higher power' or the belief of them. This also generally includes philosophical topics about organized or ritualistic mysticism or about organized, common or ritualistic beliefs in the existence of supernatural phenomenon.
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Steve3007
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Re: What is Your Story?

Post by Steve3007 » July 9th, 2018, 11:22 pm

Greta wrote:I wonder why they bothered with horses before they were washed away in the Elves' moat
Perhaps Sauron hadn't invented dragony things at that point. Or perhaps they had a very good upgrade clause in their vehicle insurance policy which covered floods (although not a rental vehicle to get them back to Mordor). Or perhaps, in the Shire, they were in stealth mode and considered dragony things a tad too flamboyant. Softly softly catchy monkey.
...By contrast, hard science is not a myth or s story. The researchers often just do their stuff and leave others to tell the stories. Popular science writers and documentary makers are the ones who present myths that are based on science, not the boffins who are just working the data. Unfortunately, many people cannot tell the difference and attribute the loose standards of popular science works to hard research. The latter often has almost no myth or story at all to tell - pointedly so - although stories can be gleaned via inference from the observations...
Good point about the misunderstanding of the reasons why popular science and documentary turn data into narrative and create a dramatization, like the dramatization of historical events in historical novels and films.

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Greta
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Re: What is Your Story?

Post by Greta » July 9th, 2018, 11:38 pm

I think was more upset when Dobbin was killed by Bellatrix ... and also touching when Yoda leaves the wookies crying after him and I was shocked when Jon Snow was stabbed by his brothers of the Nights Watch and unsure how these events would play out with the Federation. None, however, touched me like seeing that little dog alone, waiting in vain for his beloved human, sacrificed on the altar of adult sophistry like Puff the Magic Dragon.

I looked up "dwimmerlaik" (doesn't sound much Welsh, does it?) and found it was Rohan for necromancer. So I looked up necromancer and found this little gem:
The necromancer might also surround himself with morbid aspects of death, which often included wearing the deceased's clothing and consuming foods that symbolized lifelessness and decay such as unleavened black bread and unfermented grape juice.
The ancients seemingly believed that a lack of alcoholic content equalled death :)

True that these stories reflect people's yearnings. I re-saw Avatar recently, first time on small screen. Aside from reflecting Hollywood's desire for gravity to be a lot less controlling and lethal than it is, there was the noble savage myth, the idea of rapacious emotionally retarded modernity, the old god v evil and David v Goliath tropes. Plus apparently a desire to bring Roger Dean's artworks to life in a new new romanticism http://www.graphicine.com/roger-dean-magnetic-storm/

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Re: What is Your Story?

Post by -1- » July 13th, 2018, 4:41 pm

Dark Matter wrote:
April 1st, 2018, 4:43 pm
Physics and the math supporting it tells us that the universe should not exist. Yet, here we are. I have previously stated that, in a sense, nothing really does exist, that everything balances out in the end. My story, the one that informs me, is one of unity and ultimate oneness, a wholeness within which boundaries are artificial constructs and indefinite at best.

What is your story?
My story.

Story 1.

So there were we, Tom Sawyer and I, Huckleberry Finn, lying on our backs, staring at the starry sky above us.

"They jist happened," said Tom.
"They was made," I said.

Story 2.

God: Let there be man.Man: let there be God.
Nature: BANGGG!!! Inagaddadavida.
Man: God is dead. God: man is dead.
Nature: maxing out on entropy.
A complete morticultural delight.

Story 3.

She loves you, yeah yeah yeah.
This search engine is powered by Hunger, Thirst, and a desperate need to Mate.

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Thinking critical
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Re: What is Your Story?

Post by Thinking critical » July 17th, 2018, 8:49 am

Dark Matter wrote:
April 1st, 2018, 4:43 pm
Physics and the math supporting it tells us that the universe should not exist. Yet, here we are.
Physics says no such thing, the discipline is used to understand and explain the motion of matter. Maths creates models and assigns probabilities. Some physicists claim that the find tuning of the laws of physics are so precise that the probability of them is impossible, however that is an opinion.
I have previously stated that, in a sense, nothing really does exist, that everything balances out in the end. My story, the one that informs me, is one of unity and ultimate oneness, a wholeness within which boundaries are artificial constructs and indefinite at best.
This makes no sense how can nothing exist yet every thing balance out in the end?
What is your story?
Sucess is being content and experiencing this moment. The eternal search for happiness is the failure to except what you have and who you are.
Strip away the facade and we will finally see ourselves and each other for who and what we are.
This cocky little cognitive contortionist will straighten you right out

Dark Matter
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Re: What is Your Story?

Post by Dark Matter » July 17th, 2018, 7:22 pm

Thinking critical wrote:
July 17th, 2018, 8:49 am
Dark Matter wrote:
April 1st, 2018, 4:43 pm
Physics and the math supporting it tells us that the universe should not exist. Yet, here we are.
Physics says no such thing, the discipline is used to understand and explain the motion of matter. Maths creates models and assigns probabilities. Some physicists claim that the find tuning of the laws of physics are so precise that the probability of them is impossible, however that is an opinion.
https://www.sciencealert.com/scientists ... ally-exist (Just one of dozens of articles easily found)
I have previously stated that, in a sense, nothing really does exist, that everything balances out in the end. My story, the one that informs me, is one of unity and ultimate oneness, a wholeness within which boundaries are artificial constructs and indefinite at best.
This makes no sense how can nothing exist yet every thing balance out in the end?
It may not make sense, but it's in the math and evidenced by empirical science.
What is your story?
Sucess is being content and experiencing this moment. The eternal search for happiness is the failure to except what you have and who you are.
Strip away the facade and we will finally see ourselves and each other for who and what we are.
Nice. :)

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Greta
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Re: What is Your Story?

Post by Greta » July 17th, 2018, 8:58 pm

The headline "Scientists Have Concluded That The Universe Shouldn't Really Exist" is an absurdity used as clickbait. Often scientists will throw the media a bone like that to boost the profile of their research in a process known as "publicity".

A more informative and less misleading headline - and thus one that would never be used would be:

"Latest Discovery Means That Aspects of the Standard Model May Need Revision".

I am seeing this a lot - science journalism and journalists being mistaken for science and scientists. You made the same mistake with Krauss's "A Universe from Nothing" - where his point was actually that what we once thought was nothing is actually something rather than a claim of nihilistic magical emergence.

Beware the clickbait and be ready to reinterpret. Caveat emptor.

Dark Matter
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Re: What is Your Story?

Post by Dark Matter » July 18th, 2018, 1:23 am

A skeptic’s way of saying, “Don’t confuse me with the facts”:
Greta wrote:
July 17th, 2018, 8:58 pm
The headline "Scientists Have Concluded That The Universe Shouldn't Really Exist" is an absurdity used as clickbait. Often scientists will throw the media a bone like that to boost the profile of their research in a process known as "publicity".

A more informative and less misleading headline - and thus one that would never be used would be:

"Latest Discovery Means That Aspects of the Standard Model May Need Revision".

I am seeing this a lot - science journalism and journalists being mistaken for science and scientists. You made the same mistake with Krauss's "A Universe from Nothing" - where his point was actually that what we once thought was nothing is actually something rather than a claim of nihilistic magical emergence.

Beware the clickbait and be ready to reinterpret. Caveat emptor.

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Re: What is Your Story?

Post by Greta » July 18th, 2018, 2:23 am

Just a matter of caveat emptor, as stated. It's a sub-optimal situation but once business and marketing are involved, you get these issues.

Besides, anyone who genuinely believed that the standard model is not in need of revision is certainly not a physicist or a person familiar with the issues. It's all rather messy and inelegant, especially with unexplained incongruities and mysteries posed by dark matter, dark energy, consciousness/information, black holes, universal original origins and universal scale, amongst others.

However, the current models at least work and provide some consistencies, and that suggests that the models point to real phenomena. However, it remains incomplete.

Steve3007
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Re: What is Your Story?

Post by Steve3007 » July 18th, 2018, 3:42 am

Greta wrote:The headline "Scientists Have Concluded That The Universe Shouldn't Really Exist" is an absurdity used as clickbait...
Yes, and I suppose the problem arises when people like Dark Matter don't actually click but simply decide to make up their own interpretation of that (as you've said) self-evidently absurd headline. Saying things that are self-evidently absurd as a sort of opening gambit to get people interested is a tried and tested way to get attention.
A more informative and less misleading headline - and thus one that would never be used would be:

"Latest Discovery Means That Aspects of the Standard Model May Need Revision".

I am seeing this a lot - science journalism and journalists being mistaken for science and scientists. You made the same mistake with Krauss's "A Universe from Nothing" - where his point was actually that what we once thought was nothing is actually something rather than a claim of nihilistic magical emergence.

Beware the clickbait and be ready to reinterpret. Caveat emptor.
As you're suggesting, your proposed alternative headline is more accurate but less arresting.
Dark Matter wrote:A skeptic’s way of saying, “Don’t confuse me with the facts”
No. A way of saying: "If there's a difference between the theory and observed reality then observed reality is right". Pretty bloody obvious really. A headline like "Scientists Have Concluded That The Universe Shouldn't Really Exist" is essentially the same as a headline like "Scientists Have Concluded That Objects Shouldn't Fall to the Ground". We all know that the laws of physics are descriptive, not prescriptive. The Law of Universal Gravitation doesn't tell objects what to do. It attempts to describe what they actually do. So clearly there's no "should" or "shouldn't" about it. Objects clearly do fall to the ground. The Universe clearly does exist. Scientists aren't in the business of chastising it and telling it that it shouldn't. So, if we think about it at all, we have to conclude that the word "shouldn't" is not being used in it's normal sense here. But if you take it out you get a headline like Greta's suggested alternative which doesn't grab the attention quite so effectively.

Personally, I think every headline for every story on every subject should just say "Sex!".

Dark Matter
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Re: What is Your Story?

Post by Dark Matter » July 18th, 2018, 4:16 am

There comes a point where skepticism looks more like religious fanaticism than a method of honest inquiry. This is understandable. Dealing with the evidence at hand can be quite disturbing, especially when it challenges our most cherished beliefs.

For some people, it’s far easier for to simply bury their heads in the sand And wait until something less disturbing comes along. IMV, this promissory materialism is less plausible than the Force.

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Re: What is Your Story?

Post by Greta » July 18th, 2018, 4:34 am

Skepticism towards what?

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Re: What is Your Story?

Post by Thinking critical » July 18th, 2018, 6:03 am

Dark Matter wrote:
July 17th, 2018, 7:22 pm

https://www.sciencealert.com/scientists ... ally-exist (Just one of dozens of articles easily found)
If this an attempt at justifying your claim, you do not understand the fundamental principles of science. The fact that our limited understanding of anti matter when applied to the current big bang model draws some physicists to conclude that the Universe can not exist - even though we know it does, means one of two things. Either the model needs revision or the data is incorrect or insufficient . The article you posted even states an asymmetry must exist, but we don't understand where. So Clearly the data is insufficient.
We could just as easily say "life shouldn't exist because scientists can't explain how biological matter emerges from non biological matter".

In response to my comment
This makes no sense how can nothing exist yet every thing balance out in the end?
You replied
It may not make sense, but it's in the math and evidenced by empirical science.
What emperical science?
The mathematical model of our Universe demonstrates an equal balance of matter and antimatter, this does not equate to "nothing exists". Nothing can not be property of existence.
This cocky little cognitive contortionist will straighten you right out

Dark Matter
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Re: What is Your Story?

Post by Dark Matter » July 18th, 2018, 2:32 pm

Thinking critical wrote:
July 18th, 2018, 6:03 am
Dark Matter wrote:
July 17th, 2018, 7:22 pm

https://www.sciencealert.com/scientists ... ally-exist (Just one of dozens of articles easily found)
If this an attempt at justifying your claim, you do not understand the fundamental principles of science. The fact that our limited understanding of anti matter when applied to the current big bang model draws some physicists to conclude that the Universe can not exist - even though we know it does, means one of two things. Either the model needs revision or the data is incorrect or insufficient . The article you posted even states an asymmetry must exist, but we don't understand where. So Clearly the data is insufficient.
We could just as easily say "life shouldn't exist because scientists can't explain how biological matter emerges from non biological matter".
Exactly. Explore possibilities in the context of existing facts -- even if it leads to the likelihood of something radically different than to what you are accustomed.
In response to my comment
This makes no sense how can nothing exist yet every thing balance out in the end?
You replied
It may not make sense, but it's in the math and evidenced by empirical science.
What emperical science?
The mathematical model of our Universe demonstrates an equal balance of matter and antimatter, this does not equate to "nothing exists". Nothing can not be property of existence.
Exactly. Deal with it; don't simply hope that the facts will go away.

Steve3007
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Re: What is Your Story?

Post by Steve3007 » July 18th, 2018, 3:15 pm

Exactly. So we've established that the Universe definitely exists. Good. Exactly.

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Re: What is Your Story?

Post by Steve3007 » July 18th, 2018, 3:17 pm

Greta wrote:Skepticism towards what?
It looks like we'll never know.

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